Ashley Cottonwood wrote:Hey Mathew that's a great question!
This brainstorming thread is to help develop the PEP program aka "Permaculture Education according to Paul"
So really I'm trying to reiterate someone else's perspective, you can look up Paul's work, but here is my brief summary in relation to aphids:
In this permaculture perspective, you are trying to identify if there is an imbalance in the system that you are managing. As many people have stated above, they have identified that there wasn't necessarily a in imbalance in the system, but rather an individual weak plant and 'doing nothing' was the solution. That the aphids weren't a problem but a functioning part of the system as a whole.
In other situations it may have been a soil health issue or a lack of habitat for beneficial. In these cases, putting in effort to mitigate the problem results in a long term impact on the system. Sort of a "one and done" solution, although you'd have to continue to make observations to see if your inputs were effective.
What this thread was trying to avoid was mitigating a problem by having to repeated apply an input: DE, sprays, squishing. This is because they are seen as a band-aid solution and not addressing the imbalance as a whole.
In short, aiming towards "wholistic management".
Hopefully that makes sense!
Thanks for responding to my question. I totally get the idea of holistic management. And I agree that often the best approach is to do little, observe the results, and then realign your future efforts closer to nature's patterns as they've been revealed to you through the observation. Often if an element of your system is succumbing to pests (especially if it repeatedly faces the same pest problems), then this is a signal to you that the element was ill-chosen, was ill-placed, or that your support systems - the diversity of your
polyculture, the quality of your soil, the proximity of trap crops, the presence of natural and/or domesticated predators - are inadequate.
I consider it the Aikido horticultural approach. When nature focuses a "destructive" energy towards you (ex, aphids attack), roll with that energy and redirect it to your long-term advantage (ex, you gain knowledge and perhaps loose a poorly-suited element, to the enhancement of your future system performance); don't attempt to meet it head on with an equal-but-opposite energy (ex, you poison the aphids).
I agree with all that.
But I still fear it is overstating the case to declare that "the permaculture way means: no spraying, no squishing, no DE, no traps, no purchasing lady bugs/other predators." [NOTE the OP has since revised this quoted verbiage to more clearly define her goals for this thread and the desired PEP criteria, and to avoid broader implications as to what is or isn't a minimally acceptable permaculture technique] Any of these might be a perfectly acceptable solution within a permaculture system, depending on the circumstances: what are you spraying, how long are you depending on these efforts/inputs, how mature are your systems, etc. Some of the measures you named I'd be willing to take when I'm getting a new system established; whereas if I'm forced to rely on them indefinitely, they represent too much trouble and I'd try to tweak my system instead, perhaps subbing out some elements for others.
To be sure, I'm NOT saying these would be the
best solutions, nor the
most elegant solutions, and not necessarily desirable
long term solutions. But I would hardly go so far as to say they are inconsistent with permaculture, which I thought you were implying.
Spraying... okay, I'll admit: the truth is I don't spray. And I would shy away from even an organic pesticide - I think someone above mentioned neem oil - because beneficials succumb as well, and we all know very well how that starts the self-stroking cycle of herbivores (aphids) recovering more quickly than predators (ladybugs), which leads to more crop damage, which leads to more spraying, which only escalates the cycle. But what about sprays like garlic/pepper solution intended to repel insects from particular plants? I have a hard time seeing the down-side, provided you are willing to put in the effort. What about spraying barrier films (ex, clay) on to ripening tree fruit? I've heard lots of permies recommend that, and again I struggle to see the down-side.
Squishing... If I'm walking through my garden and I see a stink bug on my squash, I'm going to squish it. It's body goes into the mulch and becomes ant fodder. If I see a fat tomato horn worm, I might squish it, or if it exhibits parasitic wasp eggs I might throw it far away. It will succumb to ants, or birds, or to the wasp larvae if it lasts that long, but is unlikely to find its way back to my tomatoes. The predator/prey balance has not been affected, no harmful chemicals have been introduced... I'm struggling to see the downside. To be sure, I'm not spending hours patrolling the garden for pests to squish; that's just too much trouble. And if one day I did find myself doing that, then I'd know that my systems are weak and consider it a wake-up call. But squishing the random pest that crosses my path? I don't see that as something a permaculturalist wouldn't do.
DE... Paul is a huge advocate of DE. He talks/writes about it all the time and has been doing so for years. I've used it to attack the fire ant mounds we are subject to in the South. I wouldn't flatter myself that I "eradicate" or even "kill" the fire ant colonies; at best I merely harass them to the point that they relocate their mounds 10 feet over, which might no longer be in my way. I am happier, and my soil life has not been harmed. Another example: okra growing in my kitchen garden sometimes get ant infestations. The ants burrow into the flower buds and growing okra pods, resulting in what I call "club foot okra" and retarding the growth of the whole plant. Gods only know what the ants are doing, but I've seen it more than once. I respond with DE on the stems and leaves of the okra, and with a couple weeks of applications I can sometimes deter the ants long enough that the plant regains its strength and starts growing again. The ants usually don't return to that plant. I'll grant you that this is only a "band-aid measure" as you aptly put it. But bare in mind that my garden is small and has only a few okra plants; if the ants overwhelm these, then I get zero okra harvest. Some years the okra are strong all season and never show ant problems, so I know they are capable of thriving here. In fact, okra is a prime choice for my climate.
Should a permaculturalist shy away from doing as I have done? Again, if I found myself broadcasting pounds of DE across all my crops just to keep them alive, it would be a wake-up-call moment and I would re-evalute my situation.
No traps... I suppose excessive use of traps could upset the predator/prey balance. But I've not observed that most traps are that effective. They usually provide a little
local, targeted relief. They don't decimate the prey population to the point that predators crash. I've had decent results with the pheromone-bait-over-a-collection-bag style of Japanese Beetle traps, provided I put them far from the affected plants (otherwise, they just draw in and concentrate the JB population near to what you're trying to protect). I give the full bags to my neighbor who feeds them to her
chickens. There are still JBs on my grapes after that, but not enough that the vines decline in vitality. I should note that there have only been two years in the past eight when JBs were a problem. They just go crazy one summer and then mellow out the next summer. I'd be willing to bet that these occasional surges and subsequent declines in their numbers reflect fluctuations in the regional environment, and nothing that I'm doing on my small property.
No purchasing lady bugs/other predators... I'll concede that I've never been seriously tempted to do this. I see no ecological downside to it, but it's most likely a waste of money. If your systems aren't rich enough, the purchased predators won't stick around. Whereas, if your systems are rich enough to support them, they will likely show up soon enough on their own. If you feel like throwing money away, the neighborhood will never suffer from a bag full of extra lace wings or lady bugs, but your own short-term benefit will be minimal.
My apologies for muddying the waters and distracting from this thread's intended brainstorming exercise. I am probably overreacting to a simple statement, taking it out of its intended context. I know none of this has helped to develop the PEP criteria you are aiming for. I do understand your desire to focus attention towards the more elegant, long-term solutions over the band-aid measures. But I thought it worth stating that some of those band-aids have their uses.
I guess I just feared some permie newbie stumbling onto this thread, reading your original statement, and thinking "oh gosh, you mean practicing permaculture means I can never squish a bug?"