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My dog killed my llama to protect 5 year old. What to do with dog now.

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posted 4 years ago

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I was working in my garden when i heard my 6 year old scream in terror, when I turned around my 1 year old Presa Canaro was bringing my llama down. They always got along and all i kept thinking was is my daughter alright and how did the llama get into the kids yard? I called my husband while taking my daughter in the house. We found out a section of the fence between the pasture and the kids yard was down from a fallen tree that we didn't see. We got our dog and llama separated and the llama died 3 days later. This happened about a week ago. After separating dog and llama my daughter tells me that the llama was running right at her and she had no time to run so she screamed and then her dog saved her. My husband and i have been trying to decide what to do since. Keep the dog because he did protect our daughter or should the dog have to go? We have no other animals since this llama was our last one before we decided to either get another or to sell him. We have kept the dog in his kennel since the incident to see if he has changed and he has not so far. We are so confused because we never have had this problem in the past and this is our daughters first dog and part of me doesn't wanna upset her if he has to go, but i also have to protect my family from all dangers even if its her beloved pet. And ideas would be helpful.

Burra Maluca

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I think if a dog attacks a human, it's probably best to shoot the dog.

Having been raised in a farming community I'm rather of the opinion that if a dog attacks a sheep it should be shot, too.

If however a dog goes out of its way to launch to the defence of its owner when that owner is screaming for help and running from a beast that is hotly pursuing it, and manages to take that beast down and save the life of its owner, then that dog deserves to live out the rest of its days in pride of place at its owner's side.

I would also spend a bit of time figuring out what went wrong to make the llama chase after the little girl and terrify her, too. I know nothing about llamas so can't really offer any advice or opinion on that.

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My experience with llamas is that they are horrible unpredictable creatures, prone to violent outbursts without provocation. It can seem that all is going well, then they snap. Dogs tend to be on a much more even keel. If a dog is friendly and approachable, then they seem to always be like that. If a dog is snarly , you know not to approach. With a llama, you just can't tell. They might take grain right from your hand and then bite your face. I will never have a llama and I will never have a honey badger. You just don't know what they're going to do.

I'm pretty sure this was the llamas fault. It might have just pushed your daughter over, in a show of dominance or it may have stomped on her for a few minutes.

I remember about 25 years ago, there were all sorts of people promoting llamas and alpacas in Canada because it was going to make millionaires of those people. That didn't happen.

Celiena Merihew

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We don't know why the llama did what he did. The llama was fine with her before because my daughter always helped feed and brush him. My husband thinks the llama got scared (he has been a little skittish since his brother passed months ago).

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Celiena Merihew wrote: We have kept the dog in his kennel since the incident to see if he has changed and he has not so far.

So, a beautiful one year old springs to the defence of a child under attack and you place the dog in a kennel to see if its changed?

I'm amazed. That dog should be given a medal, special treats and extra love celebrating its protection of your family.

What on earth would you want to change in such a magnificent animal?

And why are placing the dog in a kennel? Give that dog the keys to your place and the freedom of your land!

Given your story, there is no confusion as what to do. Llama tried to hurt your child. Dog (and so young!) protects your child - your family. Llama naughty. Sad, but true. Dog awesome. Happy and how lucky the dog was there to do it!

Burra Maluca

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I'm no expert on dogs so I hope someone else will chime in, but as I understand it a dog who attacks an animal to defend its family is not more likely than it ever was to attack a human or livestock in the future.

A dog that has learned to chase or hunt or kill for fun or food is very different - that's why farmers will shoot dogs who learn to chase sheep as they tend to be incurable. But that's not what happened in this case. Your dog attacked only to protect, which really isn't likely to encourage him to chase or attack either livestock or people, unless his family is threatened again.

My sister in law, who gave me my welsh sheep dog and is something of a dog guru, told me that dogs see other animals and people as one of three things - friend/family, or foe, or food.

Friends and family get protected.

Food gets chased or eaten.

Foes get attacked.

I very much doubt that your dog will get these things confused, and is almost certainly going to continue to be the amazing dog he's always been. Except you know that if ever your daughter is threatened, he's going to defend her!

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You heard your 5-6 (?) year old scream with terror, right? Ok then, that's it. It is the same thing the dog heard. That is what dogs do. If any member of the pack gets attacked, they attack. No questions there. It is totally normal. It is not out of her/his character. Female dogs usually attack to kill, male dogs usually harm a lot in such instances. There are special breeds selected for this behavior (some of the guard dogs- not livestock guard dogs). As long as your dog is not one of those breeds, there is no need to make a big deal about it.
Following such instances, you do not want to do negative treatment to the dog. It will only result in the dog getting confused and not knowing where it belongs. Might start digging, acting weird, etc. You do not want to do much of a positive treatment also (don't exaggerate), the dog might think this is the right to do when the kid/baby screams. Kids fake a lot, the dog might think it is the first thing to do when the kid thinks in danger. You don't want that also. The dog did his/her duty. Should be treated as such. You need to act as you did before, but occasionally remind him/her of his/her place. Make her follow your orders. Give orders and wait calmly till she follows them. Never exaggerate (good or bad), but try to remind her she is the part of the family as always, but she has other duties (such as following orders - small things) and a very specific role in your family. She should know she is always below humans in the hierarchy (including your kid and other people in the neighborhood). Guard dogs are a bit more tricky, they need this reaffirming therapy all their life long (before and after such events).

Stay calm and be positive

Celiena Merihew

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Lito George

I just wanted to make sure he didnt get something called blood poisoning and his vet and the breeder we got him from told us to put him a a very large kennel for a week to make sure he doesnt get aggressive and it gives us time to remove all blood soaked soil and any fencing and laundry that was contaminated with said blood. He comes out today after the vet checks him over. I was asking for advise because i have NEVER been in this situation before. Yes im extremely happy that the dog protected my child. And maybe i shouldnt have called where he is a kennel since its actually a 10 feet by 10 feet room that has a door to the rest of the house and a dog door to the outside with a 8 by 8 night time potty yard with a seven foot fence. My husband mad that room for our dogs because even dogs need a brake from the family. But as a first time mother and for as long as i have had dogs and live stock this has never happened before and i didnt know if maybe someone could help me with my decision im trying to make and not be upset because i have him separated by vet and breeders suggestion.

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It sounds to me like your dog did what it was trained to do- protect its family. I agree with Burra-- the dog did well.
I don`t know if you're not sure about whether the dog shouldn't have killed the llama (i don't know enough about livestock guarding dogs to know what the proper response is to a predator, but from what people say they kill, they don't take chances) or whether you are not sure how the dog will respond to future livestock, but I think the dog did the right thing and you don`t have to worry about him being on some sort of killing spree. How to introduce new livestock in the future, I`m not sure. But it sounds like as a protection dog for your daughter, you`ve got a good one.

(I also would happily work with a hungry, mean dog, an evil pony, a crazed stallion, or pretty much anything other than a llama.)

Celiena Merihew

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Update on dog.

The vet gave him the ok on not having the blood poisoning she was talking about so he is allowed to run free in our yard again, she did say that since the llama was our last livestock that if we did plan on having anymore to move the pasture back more and away from the tree line and to make all of our fences taller just in case, but i dont think we will be having any more livestock and just gonna either sell the land or make the kids/ family yard bigger. Our presa canaro (Canary Mastiff if no on looked up the breed) is just gonna be our protector and family dog. Thank you all for your inputs and thoughts. I didnt think you all would help me like you have. I even kept fighting with myself on asking for help. He are going to keep our boy since not only would my daughter be upset but i think i would be too if we had to get rid of him and i think my husband is very happy about it too since he just loves our dog (even when he says he doesnt.)

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Presa Canario is a dog known for it's willingness to put it's life on the line for it's family. I say Bravo. The dog had no idea why a large animal was attacking your child, but it knew exactly what it was supposed to do about it. I expect my dogs to protect our family. Yours proved it would do just that. I'm not sure what more a dog owner could ask for.

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Tereza Okava

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Great news, Celiena! I was just thinking about my dog when he was 1, your boy is still a puppy, really, it sounds like your daughter will have a great companion to play with as she grows up. What a good outcome.

(also, since I don't think it's been said yet, welcome to Permies. I'm glad you decided to ask your question here. There are a lot of people here who've been through a lot of things and have good experiences and knowledge to share when I need advice or info. I hope you stick around!)

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Hi Celiena: Welcome to Permies!
Yes , one year old and he put his life on the line for your daughter! A loved & trusted family member for all of his days!
If you do get new livestock, get them young. Your dog will know they are babies and soon adapt them into his family. If you have the room I would suggest a pair of wiener piggys. Keep them 6 months and send them off to the butcher. That will expose your pup to livestock again and expose your daughter to the reality of raising livestock.

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I grew up with llamas for around 10 or so years. It is impossible to know what happened without very good details or actually witnessing the incident. Llamas have it ingrained in their nature to stomp predators/dogs into piles of mud, especially the female llamas. It's part of who and what they are to protect their young from vicious predators. It's why you often see llamas living with sheep, they protect the sheep from dogs.

I wonder if the llama saw the dog with your daughter and had fear that the dog was going to hurt her, especially after having lost his herd mate? I wonder if the llama was also protecting your daughter? It's impossible to know. I have lots of thoughts and ideas, but without having seen it and knowing the llama and dog, it is impossible to know what happened.

Your dog is a large powerful breed that has a strong will to protect it's owner, who protected your young daughter from a perceived lethal attack from a large animal/being who appeared to be charging at your daughter. It is a terrible situation, but I would praise the dog for risking it's own life to save your daughter, yet learn to manage the behaviors. I wouldn't literally praise the dog for killing the llama, I'm simply trying to say that I would be happy to know that your dog will protect your daughter from a predators attack, though I would be upset at the death of the llama, yet it is pointless to take it out on the dog after the fact for doing what it is breed to do. Michael Ellis is an amazing dog behaviorist/trainer that I've been watching on youtube, he would be worth learning from to socialize the dog, daughter, and future animals together. You can also train your dog to bark at the perceived threat and protect your daughter vocally before NEEDING to bite the attacker.

I wasn't there, I have no clue what happened, but from the details provided, I think the dog did a good job protecting your daughter.

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Celiena Merihew

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Tereza Okava wrote:Great news, Celiena! I was just thinking about my dog when he was 1, your boy is still a puppy, really, it sounds like your daughter will have a great companion to play with as she grows up. What a good outcome.

(also, since I don't think it's been said yet, welcome to Permies. I'm glad you decided to ask your question here. There are a lot of people here who've been through a lot of things and have good experiences and knowledge to share when I need advice or info. I hope you stick around!)

Thank you for welcoming me and yes if i have anymore questions i will be coming straight here. Everyone has made good points and i hated keeping our dog from us but i was just worried because like i have said in a reply i put on here i have never in all my years living on a farm had to deal with this. My grandparents (who let us take over the farm) didnt even have an answer for us because they never had to deal with this either... So i think we will just stick to our crops instead of livestock for quite some time.

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Yes. Love that dog. He did exactly what a good boy does and protected the young of his pack.

I am sure that the quarantine was necessary, and even I would still keep an eye out for changes in behaviour, but I wouldn't worry too much. What would your reaction have been had the instigating party been a coyote or cougar or feral hog or something, instead of an ornery llama with no real idea how much damage it could have done to a small human? I would think a medical quarantine more important in that case, but would you have any reservations over the dog's intentions?

Time to figure out what's going in that pup's Christmas stocking. Giant herbivore femurs, I think, filled with marrow, unless he's already got a favourite special treat.

Love that dog. For all you know, he just saved your daughter's life. You have a companion that will lay down his life for you and yours, and you know it. Cherish him.

-CK

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Celiena Merihew

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Joshua Parke wrote:

I wasn't there, I have no clue what happened, but from the details provided, I think the dog did a good job protecting your daughter.

We dont know why our llama did it either. Our dog and llama have known each other and have gotten along since we brought our dog home and he would go into the pasture with us when we were heading to the llama house as we call it to muck it out or to feed and brush him, but since his pack mate died he has been skittish about everything and has changed thats why we were trying to decide on getting the llama (male) another herd mate or sell him or let him spend the rest of his days at a llama sanctuary.

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While it is possible the dog got the wrong end of the stick as it were, I think I would prefer the dog to do something early in that situation than wait until the child got trampled.

I say keep the dog, get him out of that kennel and give him big cuddles, but also take him out to see other animals, if you know anyone with large animals that are accustomed to dogs take him round to see them take the child too, and make sure he sees that not all animals are a threat. (of course keep him on a lead for all this)

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Tereza Okava

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when I worked with horses we had some situations where horses had unexpected reactions and people got hurt, and sometimes we were able to look back and understand why, and sometimes we never did. Could have been something as simple as bugs making the animal upset, ribbons in hair fluttering, etc or finding out later the animal had an issue that made it painful and grumpy (i am thinking of a horse that had a tooth issue that we only figured out later). You may never know, but I`m glad nobody got even more hurt.

(says the person who got thrown and broke a few ribs when her horse saw a wild turkey off out of the corner of its eye and went berserk. at least that one was easy to understand....)

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Celiena, what a hard experience! I'm so glad your daughter is ok, and that your amazing pup is ok, and once again reunited with the family! Having grown up with both livestock and pets, I know that all have the potential to turn. All. What Burra said about family/friend, food, or foe is exactly right. I don't know of anything about 'blood poisoning', unless it's the case of 'getting a taste' for blood, that can ruin an otherwise amazing dog - which I've experienced. Unfortunately, when you have a dog that discovers that some livestock can be great sport to kill, and are also tasty, that is a dog that needs to either be rehomed, or put down. We had one such dog, when I was a kid. It was devastating, but necessary that he be put down, and my poor dad was labeled 'the bad guy' for a long time, by all of us kids. But, we all came around to understanding, and forgiving him, for it. It's not a position anyone wants. But, it helped set the priorities, for all of us. Family cannot be replaced. Livestock, while they can be very much like pets, can be replaced, if necessary - and if they become a threat... well, threats to either family or livestock must be stopped. Our dogs and cats fall into a gray area, somewhere in between all of those. They're FAMILY. They are companions, protectors, workers, and a valuable asset, practically and emotionally. But, if they become the threat, they are the threat that must be eliminated. As hard, scary, and harsh as your situation was, it worked like it should have. I'm glad you found us. Welcome to permies.

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Chris Kott

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Skandi Rogers wrote:While it is possible the dog got the wrong end of the stick as it were, I think I would prefer the dog to do something early in that situation than wait until the child got trampled.

I say keep the dog, get him out of that kennel and give him big cuddles, but also take him out to see other animals, if you know anyone with large animals that are accustomed to dogs take him round to see them take the child too, and make sure he sees that not all animals are a threat. (of course keep him on a lead for all this)

Skandi, I don't think that is the best idea for animals whose roles change depending on territory and territoriality. If the dog is likely to be protective of "his" flock, gauging his reaction to someone else's won't tell you much, except in extreme cases. I think the only way to judge this kind of thing is to try him with his owners' livestock, if they decide to go that route again, and it has been indicated that they might keep it to plants.

In this position, and only if the situation made me uncertain of the dog's state of mind, I might see if there was a rescue donkey, or some guardian animal likely to stand up to a single canine without having to kill them to dissuade aggression, and adopt them. Once the animal is on the property, if that program still exists on Fido's hard drive, that animal becomes recognised as part of the animal's responsibility. And if Fido has forgotten, a little flick of a hoof might do to reboot it. Or kill it, if it's extremely unlucky and unskilled.

But chances are, the child's scream was the first the dog knew there was a problem, which obviates an early response from the dog. He acted in the only way he knew to stop the animal's momentum so it didn't flatten the child and trample it. Unfortunately, that resulted in a torn out throat.

It is really unfortunate for what equates to a mentally troubled animal to end this way, but the dog is a hero. You are wise to be cautious, Celiena, but I would take my cues from the careful, supervised interactions between dog and child. It truly sounds like he was out of options to deescalate the situation and did the only thing he could to save the young of the pack.

Good boy, Nameless Wonderdog!

-CK

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It's already been stated, but I also want to agree with others that this dog perhaps saved your daughters life, and I think this dog should be rewarded, given treats & praise and is indeed a dog to keep.

My imagination envisions this dog sitting with a posture of confidence, with a look of self-assurance in its eyes, wearing a cape that is gently wafting in the breeze as it scans the horizon and stands guard ready to give its life to protect your family.

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Chris Kott

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I want to stress just as much that I don't think that you have done anything wrong. I don't think anyone here intends that at all, but rather that your dog is a sensitive, brilliant creature who bravely defended your offspring the only way he knew how, and he could be hurt by inadvertent messaging. He's probably confused about why he's suddenly separated from his people after doing a "good dog" thing.

He doesn't understand, and while you can't do anything about the necessary separation, you can give him all other reassurance.

-CK

Celiena Merihew

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Chris Kott wrote:

Skandi Rogers wrote:

Good boy, Nameless Wonderdog!

-CK

His name is Bengal. My daughter said she wanted to name him after a tiger because he has "stripes"

Celiena Merihew

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Chris Kott wrote:

He doesn't understand, and while you can't do anything about the necessary separation, you can give him all other reassurance.

-CK

He is back with the family and its like nothing happened. Hes still his calm self until him and my daughter are playing then his puppy shows(they played before having to go to school). The real test is when husband gets back from helping his Mom with the hay delivery because he always playful growls at his daddy the runs around him and then gets snuggles but so far hes been great we even had a nap on the couch today while my daughter was at school. So i think all is well in this home.

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Carla Burke wrote: I don't know of anything about 'blood poisoning', unless it's the case of 'getting a taste' for blood, that can ruin an otherwise amazing dog - which I've experienced.

Getting a taste is another name of the blood poisoning my vet was worried about. But hes all good.

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Daughter is ok also she keeps telling anyone who will listen that her dog saved her from the llama. No nightmares or change in her behavior so all is well here. Thanks again everyone you have been a great help and reassurance. I am so happy i came on here.

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It seems unlikely anyone except your daughter will ever know exactly what happened or why but I think one thing is certain. That dog is part of your family & has proved it.

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Eric Hanson

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Celiena,

I imagine that you must be feeling horribly conflicted. I am so sorry. I do not know if this anecdote can possibly help but this dog behavior reminds me of something that my dog did when she was about a year old.

First off, my dog is a black lab and labs are known for their gentle tempers. In every respect, my dog has this kind, gentle disposition. However, one day when my dog was about 1 year old and my daughter was about 5 years old, my daughter was sitting on the floor playing near my dog, but not interacting with my dog. They were merely in each others company. I spontaneously ran in and scooped up my daughter and ran off with her (my daughter said "WHHEEEEEEE!'). It was harmless fun, no-one was hurt in any way. But my kind, gentle dog looked at me with the most serious look I have ever seen her give, before or since and she barked loudly at me. I mean she scolded me. It was obvious to everyone that my dog was telling me that what I did was not right! Now my dog did not do anything other than bark loudly and very assertively. I did manage to calm her down, but she was a little upset with me for a few minutes.

The moral of the story is that my dog was being extremely protective of my young daughter. She considered herself to be my daughter's protector and even though she is very affectionate with me, what I did bothered her.

Celiena, I certainly appreciate your concern about your daughter's safety. Your dog killed another animal, seemingly out-of-the-blue. I would be very concerned as well for my child's safety. I am willing to bet that the llama spooked the dog into its guarding instinct and your dog protected your daughter. Whether your daughter was ever in any danger from the llama we will never know, but my money is on your dog protecting your daughter. But my money is not your daughter so I certainly understand or at least appreciate your concern for your dog's actions and your daughter's safety.

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First - based on what your daughter said - good dog!

Second -based on what I would have said at that age - you can't really tell (I'd have lied if necessary to save "my" dog).

Third - Presa canarios tend to be tough, protective, and territorial dogs, and not =what I'd personally choose for a family with a small child. Is this your first "guard" type breed?

So - you have a dog that's killed. Any dog will kill, so that's not really the issue. But you have a dog that has decided that, when faced with a threat to your family, their first instinct is not to bark, growl, or snarl, but to attack. Whether that was justified? We can't tell, but it may very well have been. If you ask your daughter - did the dog give any warning signs before he attacked, or just come out of no where? Dogs repeat behaviours that work, and your dog now have experience that going for the kill will successfully resolve the problem.

With all dogs, especially "guard" type breeds, socialization to allow them to distinguish real from fake threats is really important. You said he's about 1 year old - that's still adolescence. In many dogs, that's when protective tendencies tend to become more prominent, and dogs tend to become more territorial. Is he neutered?

I have no idea where you live - but i'd be looking for an IPO/Schutzhund training club near you, or a trainer who works with police dogs. I'm not suggesting you train him as a guard dog, but I am suggesting you find someone with experience with guard-type dogs to give an assessment of your dogs personality, and give you suggestions if he needs further socialization or work. Vets are great, but they seldom have much experience with behavioural or training issues.

How does your dog react to new situations? Do they wag their tail? Stiffen and become cautious? Bark? growl? run and hide? What did you do to socialize him as a puppy, particularly in that crucial socialization period between 8-14 weeks? Is he comfortable with strangers coming on to your property, with strangers touching you or your child, walking in town, and with other dogs? When my sisters were small, they had a St. Bernard. The Saint was a great dog - but had a habit of gently grabbing my sister's friends by the back of the shirt and tugging them off if they rough housed and my sisters shrieked. What would your dog do in that same situation?

I would be looking to make sure my dog is very well socialized, and very well trained. I'd also consider being very careful the next time you or your child have friends over. Possibly leash him, and watch how he reacts when people touch you or your child, or if your child shrieks.

So - in short. Probably not a bad dog, just a dog doing what his instincts tell him to! But please be careful with him, work to make sure he's not a fearful dog, and make sure you keep socializing to accept "new" and "different" things, so he has good judgement to understand when something is truly scary.

And hugs for your daughter, that sounds like a really traumatic experience for her!

r ranson

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posted 4 years ago

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That's a tough situation.

It sounds like the daughter felt a serious threat and the dog responded to that. I don't know enough about dogs to help with this.

Dale Hodgins wrote:My experience with llamas is that they are horrible unpredictable creatures, prone to violent outbursts without provocation.

I find the opposite.

Llamas are hugely predictable, but not in the way that other livestock or dogs are. It takes a lot of training (of the human) to safely interact with a llama. Llamas haven't been domesticated very long and not domesticated in the same way that a sheep or a dog has. Think Europe vs. South America. So it takes different thinking to understand a llama.

The llama sees its job as protecting the herd. If something is moving quickly, or watching a member of the herd, then it is a preditor and must be attacked or scared off. I think I saw that he doesn't have a herd right now, so that is going to make him even more nervous. If he's intact, then it's rutting season which changes his behaviour.

Of course, ~~young~~ humans make a lot of fast motion and if they are curious about the animal, they will spend a lot of time looking at it. Maybe even look it in the eye. These things that trigger llama defences.

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Celiena Merihew

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posted 4 years ago

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Catie George wrote: Is this your first "guard" type breed?

How does your dog react to new situations? Do they wag their tail? Stiffen and become cautious? Bark? growl? run and hide?

We have had a number of rotties and boxers and german Shepards through the years and we have also had great danes and chows and bassets begals scotties and labs and so many different dogs throughout the years its hard to keep track of all the breeds and how many we had at once. My first dog was actually a rottie. So training has never been a problem for us.

Our presa when someone comes over be them family or stranger barks to inform us someone is here then is so playful with them like oh hello welcome to our home here let me show you in.

It was just confusing for me because i know what dogs can do but i have never seen any dog actually attack. And i just wanted to make sure his behavior wouldnt change and he is neutered and we actually had to get him at about 5 weeks old because his mama died and the breeder we got him from couldnt handle bottle feeding so many pups and none of his other dams would feed him and most of his siblings.

Carla Burke

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posted 4 years ago

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Celiena Merihew wrote:
Our presa when someone comes over be them family or stranger barks to inform us someone is here then is so playful with them like oh hello welcome to our home here let me show you in.

It was just confusing for me because i know what dogs can do but i have never seen any dog actually attack. And i just wanted to make sure his behavior wouldnt change and he is neutered and we actually had to get him at about 5 weeks old because his mama died and the breeder we got him from couldnt handle bottle feeding so many pups and none of his other dams would feed him and most of his siblings.

Awww, what a sweet BABY!!! I'm so glad you took him in! That early imprinting could very well be part of his decisive action, when the need arose. Good for all of you! 💜💜💜

Ben Zumeta

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posted 4 years ago

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Sounds like your dog did exactly what he was bred for. I remember bringing my pyrenees/akbash home as a 38lb, 11week old puppy, with a father as large as any dog I'd seen. It occurred to me that even though these breeds were supposed to have low bite rates on people and livestock, I was taking on a big responsibility that I should not undertake lightly. I needed to give him every chance to succeed in a world that has changed from the one he was bred for in pre-roman Basque country or Anatolia. He has treed a bear but is gentle with small animals. I would be watchful all the more knowing your dog has little hesitation and plenty of ability to kill, but I hope it was also known that this was possible when you got this breed.

On another note, llama is some of the best meat I've ever had, I hope you could still utilize it. Delicious, even though its very low in fat (4% I was told).

This is all just my opinion based on a flawed memory

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posted 4 years ago

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s. ayalp wrote:You do not want to do much of a positive treatment also (don't exaggerate), the dog might think this is the right to do when the kid/baby screams. Kids fake a lot, the dog might think it is the first thing to do when the kid thinks in danger. You don't want that also.

This is the only thing that worries me - say grandpa is having some rough and tumble with the kid and she is squealing and the dog misunderstands what is going on...

Lee Gee

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It is a sad situation, your daughter frightened by your llama, screaming, alerting the dog, who caused its' demise.

Everything said above is of value. And the truth is none of us were there to witness what happened and even if we had been we still might not be able to ascertain the motives of the llama and the dog.

One fact you mention is that your daughter helped to feed the llama. Another that the llama, a pack animal, was alone after the recent passing of its sibling.

I pose this as a possibility: the lonely, hungry llama saw a source for food and family (companionship) in your daughter, and didn't know to approach slowly. Maybe it saw the dog nearby as a threat, and was running to your daughter's defense. Your daughter's inexperience, 5 years old, had her report from a 5 year old's point of view. Now she has a narrative that llama's attack and dogs protect. Sometimes it is the other way around.

A more experienced dog could have just run interference.

All 20/20 hindsight and speculation.

And the truth is you cannot predict what will happen in the future.

Please consider adding the 'not knowing-ness" to your daughter's understanding of the situation.

Blessings . . .

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Paul Eusey

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posted 3 years ago

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This is really sad...

Farming and dogs can have some real bumps along the way. I’m partial to the smarter dog breeds (Border collies, Australian Shepherds, and Queensland Heelers. Dogs with the instinct to control livestock rather than kill it). My personal take is that farm dogs should grow up on the farm with lots of exposure to the established livestock. If a dog kills livestock, that can be a very tricky situation, but if justified (dog was defending a human), then I would never put that dog down, but I would relocate the dog.

I’m sure there are a lot of biases/emotional anthropomorphic folks who will yell and scream at me, but you gotta look at this rationally... Their perspective is based solely on the narration you provided and they were biased to begin with. At the end of the day, if you don’t make any assumptions, you still don’t know for sure. The llama could have seen the dog as a threat and perhaps it was just reacting to the dog, without some video to review, you just don’t know.

Anyway, the dog just went through a traumatic event and will be affected by it. That may or may not lead to more problems in the future, but you have a small child to protect. I wouldn’t risk my kid for any dog on the planet. Your dog could shred any kid within a few seconds, and your dog might have just acquired a PTSD event. That makes it a threat/dangerous.

That being said, if I loved the dog, and I was grateful to that dog for possibly saving my kid, I would do everything I could to find that dog the best loving home I could find (and I do mean everything I could). But, I would never expose that dog to livestock again, and that isn’t just because of the livestock, it’s to protect the dog from re-triggering on that traumatic event.

My sincere condolences.

Lisa Sampson

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posted 3 years ago

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Your dog saved his tiny human at no small risk to himself. Llamas here are placed with other animals because they will kill a coyote. You should be giving that dog some treats and appreciating that you have a capable and willing guardian for your child.

Llamas are horrid animals and after dealing with a whole pack of them on a hiking trip in Peru, I can say without hesitation that they deserve to be eaten.

When you deal with animals and small children, you need to be mindful that many animals are large enough to cause serious harm, even accidentally, to an adult much less a 5 year old child. Having the child feed the llama through the fence where the spitting is the worst of it is one thing. Sending the child into the pasture alone with a llama is probably not the best idea.

I was a farm kid. We were warned strictly about pigs, cows, bulls, horses, and anything else big enough to hurt us. Even some of the billys were big enough to hurt us so we weren't allowed into those pastures or pens.

If you are looking to rehome the dog, we're closing on a new house in a month. I'm happy to give him the hero's welcome he deserves.

Just my 2 cents...

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waqar zafar

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keep this dog and train for some time, i do not know about you but here in my town, my dog killed a rabbit so I trained him for a year. Now I have 33 llamas in my farm and doing

llama farming

without any disturbance or issue. Actually, my dog breed is bighari which is a local and cool temper guard.

hi, I am Waqar living as full-time farmer in my town working with many farm animals.

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