Why are you doing SKIP/PEP/PEA?

Hello Permies! I've seen a few different threads about getting people to engage more with SKIP, but what I haven't quite found is one where people say why they specifically want to do it. If someone's already posted something like that, let me know. I'm curious about what draws people to the program.

For me, the learning aspect is higher priority than the inheriting property from Otis part. I've got very little experience doing most of what PEP covers. When I attended the SKIP event at WL, I spent just as much time learning how to use the various tools and techniques available as I did actually obtaining BBs. In this sense, the BB itself isn't the goal as much as the knowledge that comes with getting it.

PEP offers a clear set of tasks for me to work on in order to learn the skills I need to manage a homestead in a permaculture fashion. There's lots of courses available for learning permaculture design and principles, but when it comes to actually developing the skills one needs to accomplish permaculture projects there isn't much available. Most people who learn a trade such as construction or earthworks receive training on the job, rather than attending a school. Having instructors at WL guide me was immensely helpful, since I don't know all the things that I don't know. It also made me feel safer, since a lot of this stuff can be dangerous when done by inexperienced folk - it's still dangerous if you're experienced, but you'll at least know what to avoid.

The idea of inheriting property from Otis is appealing, but it seems like it would come with a bunch of caveats. Every landowner has a different vision, and if they're going to just give you their land then they'll have certain expectations. That being said, simply having access to this network by obtaining PEP certification has value of its own. If, someday, I saved up enough money to purchase property, I could potentially try going through the Otis network to see if someone wanted to do a traditional land transfer (i.e. for cash).

There's also the idea that a PEP certification could someday be widely known and respected. It's so early stage right now that nothing is certain, but if the program succeeds then being PEP1/2/3/4 would be an easy way to demonstrate skills in permaculture. It's certainly more impressive than attending a two week PDC.

So those are my reasons for doing PEP. What are yours?

For me, parts of PEP and parts of PEA, happened to align with a lot of stuff I'm already doing. It tends to be focused on more traditional practices using hand tools and a focus on the long term as opposed to short term profit.

I try to live a slow life with my eyes set on the horizon (in my opinion that is the future of humanity). I think PEX can develop into a universal skill set for humans to interact with the resource economy of our world in a mutually respectful, sustainable manner.

Like you said, I also enjoy the skill-learning aspect.

I have been training myself in hand tool woodworking thanks to wonderful youtube instructors like Paul Sellars and many others, and primitive/wilderness survival skills to a lesser degree. Once I finally set up my garden I have also sunk a lot of time, energy, some blood, and tons of sweat into learning that as well.

These things are the aspects of PEP that I interact with. Notice my BBs. I don't have anything in Earthworks, Solar, Plumbing, etc. It's not what I do and it doesn't really align as much with my views on the way forward. But we all have differences and I think it is spectacular that Paul put his view into a format that people can jump in and start doing, and get recognition for it.

So I don't ever expect to complete PEP1 or such myself. But I'm happy to show well documented examples of the badge bits for skills I'm learning and doing already anyway. I hope they might give someone else an idea for how they might proceed.

You probably should be asking the other half of that question too.  Why not?

I totally get the point of learning new skills and be able to prove it in some form just like holding a degree.  That said I am 56 and grew up in a rural poor farm and ranch family with a father who believed in being able to do any job.  You never called someone to come fix something or build something for the most part.  You learned how and did it.  My reason why not is simply that it will take more time to document it than do it in many cases now.  By now I am using known skills.  While I am always learning most of the base stuff is old hat.  And much of the PEP stuff requirements is stuff I don't need currently so it would be busy work.  So I haven't bothered.  If I happen to do something that applies and happen to take pictures for other reasons so I don't waste much time documenting I will.  But for now that is all.

I married into some property, so I'm not looking for an Otis. But as we discuss the future of the property and skills that I want my daughter to learn, I've realized how lacking my own knowledge and skills are. PEP is a great starting point for me to learn those skills. I like the encouragement on this site, the visual representation of my progress through badges, and how it's all laid out so I don't have to research which skills I actually could/should learn.

This programme is actually why I joined Permies. I really liked the idea of a structured programme to build skills in a variety of essential areas. I had gotten into a bit of a rut; people in my social circles were really impressed by what I was doing, but I was in a bit of a personal lull--it was just maintenance stuff at that point, no direction for improvement/growth. This programme seemed to be a good tool to combat that ennui and improve myself. A scouts programme for adults! The Otis/finding land element is definitely secondary for me--I'm keen to see how it works for others who complete PEP1/2, though.

I've since fizzled out a bit as many of the sand badges are not compatible with my country/climate/flora/fauna. I hope that, with some relatively minor modifications, the prgramme can be made into a more universal skills course for people to reconnect with doing things yourself. The more people that have skills in growing and preserving food, building and fixing things, the better off and more resilient local communities will be. And yes, I am willing to help move things in this direction if folks decide it's a good idea!

I have a few reasons for pursuing PEP

1) The Community: I feel like I'm part of a greater community that shares similar interests and values. I feel like I'm working towards something better with a group of awesome people. I learn so much from the work others are sharing. I get a lot of inspiration from watching others perusing their goals.

2) Fun!: I find the task engaging, bring purpose into my day, and spark creativity and new ideas. I love learning new things. It also feels like a game with earning BBs and Badges! I love games and to be honest I'm super competitive

3) Skill building: It's a great way to find out what you don't know!

4) Finding Land: I really do find myself in the position that I can't afford land (or at least the amount of land I'm seeking) without being 'house poor'. In addition, anything more than 10 acres, in this area, is simply out of reach for myself and my family. This is not a 'woe is me statement'. I have a very good life and I have many opportunities, but in the pursuit of my permaculture goals I simply require more land in the future. I think there are several 'Otis' in my area, and I want to prove myself as worthy.

I like that it promises a structure to learning skills. It also might be a good starting point for teaching skills to my kids.

However, Some of the sand badges are oddly specific. Gardening for example, I don't have the room for a hugel. I could do the other two, but only for a badge, as they don't fit into my usual methods for my no dig, slug heavy garden. I find this kind of ironic since I have gardened for years and you'd think that would be the easiest badge for me to get. There's been talk about revising this for a year so when that happens I'll be able to earn a garden sand badge. I've been working on some PEA garden BBs even though I have a fair garden space of my own.

Although I'd love more land, I don't think my husband would be willing to move so I'm stuck with my urban garden for the foreseeable future. So that's not why I am interested in badges.

I haven't actually started getting any badges yet, though there are many of the lowest level I just need to document and I'd have because I do those things frequently or even daily. (Handwash dishes? really, you're going to give me a badge for that?)
But I'm interested in the PEP badges to get help to motivate my son to do these things.
What I'd really love is an app for earning badges.  I don't have the skills to write such an app, but maybe a programmer will read this and see how they can use their tech skills to help build a better world? It's worth a shot.
My son has an app called Seek by iNaturalist that gives him badges for taking photos of plant and animal species. He gets really into it in spurts and wants to go out on nature walks looking for things.  He started using this app when he was about 7-8 years old. So there's world's of potential for getting kids interested in learning PEP skills this way.

C Lundquist wrote: However, Some of the sand badges are oddly specific. Gardening for example, I don't have the room for a hugel. I could do the other two, but only for a badge, as they don't fit into my usual methods for my no dig, slug heavy garden. I find this kind of ironic since I have gardened for years and you'd think that would be the easiest badge for me to get. There's been talk about revising this for a year so when that happens I'll be able to earn a garden sand badge. I've been working on some PEA garden BBs even though I have a fair garden space of my own.

I have also found that they seem to be limited in climate range. I try to remember that PEP is Permaculture Education according to Paul. And Paul doesn't live in the tropics or in deserts. That's an area I'd like to see expanded.

I've been meaning to complete PEP for years but I was busy working to try and buy land. Now I've lost my job because I refused to be vaccinated against covid19. So I guess I'll never be able to afford land now, especially because the cost is insane in Australia. I was going to wait for my physical skip books to arrive. I have ADD which means I go off on crazy tangents and have multiple tasks half done all the time. So following the book will help me keep on track. The most annoying part is that I have done so much already but I never recorded it. I guess I'll have to start today.

C. Letellier wrote:You probably should be asking the other half of that question too.  Why not?

I totally get the point of learning new skills and be able to prove it in some form just like holding a degree.  That said I am 56 and grew up in a rural poor farm and ranch family with a father who believed in being able to do any job.  You never called someone to come fix something or build something for the most part.  You learned how and did it.  My reason why not is simply that it will take more time to document it than do it in many cases now.  By now I am using known skills.  While I am always learning most of the base stuff is old hat.  And much of the PEP stuff requirements is stuff I don't need currently so it would be busy work.  So I haven't bothered.  If I happen to do something that applies and happen to take pictures for other reasons so I don't waste much time documenting I will.  But for now that is all.

I wrote something very similar on a post at some point.  I have land, so, while I think the Otis thing is awesome, it doesn't apply to me.  A lot of the things for PEP fall into two categories for me.  The first are things I don't need or want, so doing them just to get a badge takes me away from the million things I do need and want.  The other are things I do all the time, but I don't really feel like I can add any value to the forum by documenting them.  Someone mentioned doing dishes by hand.  That's the only way we do them, and frankly, I would feel silly documenting it.  Another example is gathering eggs.  I'm not sure there is anyone that, if I pointed to the coop and handed them a container, couldn't go out and pick up the eggs.  So I don't feel I'm adding value by documenting those.  Those are my "why not?' examples.

That takes me to the badge bits I do, and so, document.  If they are things that I think someone might not be clear on, or that it would help to have a visual, and I'm going to do the task anyway, I love to take some pictures and add some detail I think might help someone.  I document the things I do wrong as well, because those are the ones I think people learn the most from sometimes.  I also document things I am doing for the first time, or just things that I find interesting.  I see lots of questions pop up about biochar for instance, so I have documented a couple ways I do it.  I love it when people post pictures of things they are doing that are out of the ordinary.  One of my projects for this year is to make a Johnson Su Bioreactor.  I'll be taking a lot of pictures and documenting that one, just because it's interesting to me, and hopefully, someone will see it, think "wow, that doesn't look hard" and build one themselves.  I learn much more easily from pictures than written instructions, so there may be others like me that would appreciate it.  If those things have a BB associated, all the better.  I think  it 's fun having the little icons by my name.

I'm interested in boosting my "Permies resume." My intention at this point is to join an already-established community sometime down the road. To let them know I'm not a complete imbecile, and that I really am interested in the lifestyle, I think the BBs I collect can provide some documented proof that I will be an asset to their community.

Will I eventually come to the point of inheriting a piece of property? Will I end up acquiring land of my own in the future? That's difficult to say. At this point on my journey joining another person, small group, or growing community that needs an extra set of hands that's eager to do the work is what I anticipate. I think the BBs will help in making clear my commitment and intentions.

I don’t have any ambitions toward inheriting property; I’m old enough and have disabilities that really would prevent me from doing the full PEP for the purpose of SKIP. But…

I like learning new things, and BBs break it into small, tackleable chunks

Shiny badges are fun

Badges help me remember that oh yeah, i do know how to do some things (good imposter syndrome buster!)

Reading others' posts in BB threads gives me examples of how to do a thing, so I can learn it

My posts in BB threads can help someone else learn to do the thing, or see examples of doing the thing

Some badges don’t hold interest for me. Some BBs don’t fit my space, interest, or abilities. But there is lots to choose from here, and I may yet surprise myself.

Stephen B. Thomas wrote:My intention at this point is to join an already-established community sometime down the road. To let them know I'm not a complete imbecile, and that I really am interested in the lifestyle, I think the BBs I collect can provide some documented proof that I will be an asset to their community.

Great point. With enough development it could act as a portfolio for joining a community, as you're saying.
•••••••

I'm willingly falling down a permaculture rabbit hole.  Maybe it's a survival instinct, but working through Paul's PEP seems to me one of many viable paths toward living longer than the bad guys want us to.  The structure provides increasingly time-and-effort-demanding goals, much like a trainer does for the evolving gym-goer. It's also just fun. Sure beats mindlessly scrolling through social media, anyway.

Thus far I've gleaned immense value from listening to the podcasts, and doing BBs keeps the body engaged in concert.  I'll be visiting WL for the SKIP event in July to take a dip in the community and participate in some projects.  I feel strongly it's worth my time to observe WL first-hand and hopefully increase my value to others as a result.

Would be happy to get any recommendations for must-see locations / experiences in Idaho. Coming from California and open to pick up carpoolers July 8th/9th/10th.

For me at first it was for peer recognition for many choice in my life that i did until now. And i love the pratical and physical side of those permaculture project that i don't experience through all the books i can borrow at locals librairies and friends. Going toward BB100 or pep1 and pep2 will also present the challenge to work more with neighbors, friends and other intentional communities in my region. And since permaculture school is developing in my town, all these experiences, and maybee visiting wheaton labs, will augment grantly my road to a better future ! thanks for all this !

I've narrowed down my dreams and they amount to two simple things: raise chickens for eggs, keep bees for honey.

It's remarkable that participating in intricate, delicate, massive, almost unimaginable infrastructures within any number of companies, technological or not, is magnitudes easier than being able to raise simple chickens.

I think if I can do those two things I have to be in the position I dream, namely a space of sufficient size and the confidence to execute tasks. Seems like SKIP is one of the only ways to do so for those of us pitiful fools.

Am I right in saying SKIP the only game in town for people seeking simplicity from a delicate and easily collapsible world, without having reaped tons of money from, well, wherever? I suppose at its worst it would make me feel less alone to be doing something communally, albeit via the internet. I would have to drive for so many of them and I hate driving, so I haven't tackled anything specific yet.

Alex Pine wrote:Now I've lost my job because I refused to be vaccinated against covid19.

This is absolutely ludicrous. Unimaginable honestly.

I am in principle a potential OTIS, but in practice will almost assuredly NOT be one.   Not because I don't deeply appreciate the SKIP/OTIS and even PEP/BB ideations here, I do.

Even if virtually nobody actually achieves a PEP4 (or 3 or 2), the formalization that has gone into concisely describing what these skills *might* look like when deliberately approached and fashioned after one individual's perspective (Paul Wheaton) is, is significantly valuable (if not the only or even best way or approach all this, still great).

Even if no SKIPper ever finds an OTIS or any OTIS ever actually follows through and bequeaths their "project" to a SKIPper, the elaboration of the idea and the possibilities is worthwhile.

I am a potential OTIS *because* I care about the tiny bit of land I live on, and on it's role in the area it sits.   I am also an OTIS because both of my children (daughters in their 40s) have established their own lives in contexts that do not suggest they would ever want or need to take over *responsibility* for this property unless it was as perhaps an "early retirement" strategy, but they would probably not be prepared to accept the "responsibility" implied, unless (again maybe) they moved onto my property to become my caretaker if I needed such.   I'm not planning for that and currently that would be a major disruption to their life/career arcs.

I am NOT as likely an OTIS because the land I am on was acquired from a Native American Pueblo (San Ildefonso) tribe in the 60s via a series of mostly unintentional, random happenings and developed by non-tribal members into a rural commuter-neighborhood of 4 middle/professional class homes.   This means that finding a way to return the property to the tribe (or individual members of, or a broader affiliation with) is highest on my list.

I am also NOT as likely an OTIS because if I want to continue a relatively comfortable lifestyle (not professional-class where I come from, but not poverty either) into a ripe old age, I may need to recover some of the value of the property (including significant improvements) made.   While my home is not my only asset, it is on the order of 1/2 of it and I may need to realize some of that value to continue my journey to the end.    I suspect I am one of many who *would* like to give a SKIPper some *consideration* in acquiring their property but probably NOT a full inheritance of it.   Discussions of the need to pay *tax* on such an inheritance raises the question of why *must* a SKIPper look to inherit something "free and clear"?  

On that topic, I have a friend who re-developed a piece of an old farm into a near-organic modern truck-farm over about 10 years of hard labor in her 50s.  She was already a well practiced/trained organic farmer who had most recently done the same (for nearly 10 years) on someone else's farm (older retired farm couple) but who did/would not pass/sell it to her.    She knew the deal going in, so wasn't resentful and she took the experience as her "training/dues" so that when she did buy her own plot (with a friend) she was fully ready to take the project on.  She did it on a series of shoestrings and the kindness of others, including selling CSAs to raise capital in the spring most years and working part-time jobs during the off-season.    Some of her CSA patrons were *patrons* in the sense that they bought larger shares than they could use and passed the extra on.   I did the same myself, though she regularly insisted on gifting me partial CSAs and extras (because of other generosities I proffered)

When she was finally ready to "let go" she went through a lengthy series of interviews with young aspiring Organic Farmers to hand her place over to... not as an inheritance, but as an aggressively subsidized sharecrop/rental.    They had the first year while she remained on the property (In a small casita she built near the one-room strawbale farmhouse she had built early on) and provided advice, direction, and some labor.  Most of her labor at that point went into maintaining/developing the property more rather than into the fields that were producing for market.  

The young couple she took on were already experienced (multiple seasons) organic farmers from the upper midwest and they had to learn the local challenges of low humidity and high altitude and unique geopolitical markets.     They are now on their 4th year and my friend has removed herself entirely to New England, visiting only once a year to check on things, give a hand, etc.  

I don't know if this couple will eventually buy her out of the property, but if they do I am sure it will be on good terms of the same nature as their current rental/share-crop.   The *farm* is paying for itself, including paying off the "mortgage" implied by their "rent" and someday literally paying down the mortgage in the form of a owner-finance.   This is her (only) retirement plan and she lives incredibly frugally (in her VW Van in her sister's and other friends driveways) to make it possible.  I am hoping that they (who are very focused/hardworking/motivated) actually outperform their own aspirations and are able to *voluntarily* up their support of her "retirement".    

She set a high standard on every front when she developed the farm and in how she has "shared the bounty" with them and they seem to be stepping up to it.  They are producing/selling a lot more mainly because A) they represent more labor, and they are trying to *build* an income, not just meet living expenses/upgrades as she did....    Win/Win/Win...

I support *both* wherever I can (I donated my antique-but-working Kubota tractor and a similar vintage-but-working chainsaw to he farm, and have upgraded *her* digital gear with my own hand-me-downs, and buy produce from them whenever I can make it to market, even if I end up gifting some of it to friends/neighbors).

To re-iterate, I think the OTIS-SKIP-PEP stuff here is too much one-size-fits-all to fit *anyone* and yet the aspirations and the collateral materials produced (including SKIP/PEP aspirants anecdotes) is invaluable...  

Keep up the good work!
- Steve

WHY:  I've just started poking around with it and I'm doing it for FUN.   It's right up my alley for structured, organized, collecting type experiences that appeals to me.  The comradery of doing it along with others and sharing experiences is also appealing to me as a social activity.   The challenge level seems just right and now that I'm sort of getting a handle on how it works (although I still have more questions than understanding)..  which leads me to


WHY NOT:  Or why did it take so long.   It was a bit tedious and frustrating to sort through the information on how to do it, and I'm still not up to speed.  It wasn't clear how/who tracks it,  where to post the info,  how to get started,  where to start,  it didn't seem like a clear LINEAR insruction format, which is my preference.  having things streamlined.   That probably works a method of screening OUT less-serious-unmotivated folks if that's the GOAL.   Getting only serious folks that want to put in the work to be considered for property.    Less so for folks that want to participate for fun, self-improvement, and comradery.  It might not make it onto the priority list for busy folks that have other pulls on their attention.

Oh boy, now that I'm delving into it,  I feel like my daily life is one big sequence of BB opportunities, hahha.   How many is TOO many to submit at once?  Is there a daily limit?   This is more fun that I expected.   I feel like a scout again.   I guess it will slow down when I branch out into things that are totally novel to me..   Even so, it's been a good learning motivation too.   I never MEASURED my dish rinse water before to know what I was using.  That sort of awareness is really helpful...   onward..  

Nope, there's no daily limit  

So I have my property, and I'm more likely to be an Otis than to inherit. So I'm doing pep/skip for a couple reasons:

1. If I am going to be an Otis, it doesn't seem fair to me to ask someone else to do things I haven't ever even tried

2. I'm not doing the whole thing, per se, I'm doing things I haven't done and don't know how to do or taking progress pictures of things I was going to do anyway and submitting. (although this may change, see #3).

3. My "type A" likes the idea of merit badges and the bragging rights and shiny things on my profile and under my name in the forum. I want to be one of the cool kids with all the things when I respond to posts. And I like knowing stuff in general. I was also the kid who wanted to earn all the achievements on the video game.

4. Doing tasks has given me an excuse to talk to people I wouldn't normally talk to and tell them about skip/permaculture and invite them to permies. Any excuse to build community is ok in my book.

Thank you Cat! It is quite an honor to be joined in pep by a possible Otis.

At the past two summer SKIP events there were Otises quietly in attendance.  Likely similar to Cat where they want to learn the skills and spend a nice two week vacation to Montana.  

Mike, that is great to hear! It feels like by the time I can get through all this I'll be one too!

You'll be far enough along through it in no time if you dedicate a bit of time to it.  I'd be much farther than I am now if I just spent 30 minutes a day on BBs...

Mike Haasl wrote:At the past two summer SKIP events there were Otises quietly in attendance.  Likely similar to Cat where they want to learn the skills and spend a nice two week vacation to Montana.  

I suspect that many also want a chance to lay eyes on candidates, and/or potentially make individual offers "early." They may also be exploring what people are actually leaning in the program and how they are "taught." And checking out the instructors, or thinking of becoming one.

Or possibly they are thinking about taking on some woofers or something or offering a workshop on their property and want to check out the things for those reasons. Because being pep/skip specific could benefit them and help them find the right people.

And yes, there are probably a bunch like me who don't think I know everything just because I currently steward some land and want to learn or practice some skills. Or maybe don't currently use a certain skill much in their area and want to know more about it. Or everything else you said.

Thanks, that gives me an idea for my 10th thread...

Jae, an attendee at the 2023 SKIP event talks about why she is doing PEP.  She had amassed 40 BBs before attending this year's event. Now, she is going after becoming the 3rd person to become PEP1 certified!

https://permies.com/forums/posts/reply/0/172320

I think maybe monica was meaning to post the most recent podcast release which was recorded at this years skip event.

https://permies.com/wiki/222815/Podcast-De-skilling

I'm not really in either position that SKIP was designed for. We bought 20 acres in the woods 3.5 years ago. I knew some of what I wanted to be doing with the land, but the PEP framework has helped me to think about other avenues that I want to take. But it's been a fun framework for that.

I grew up being raised close to my grandfather and great uncles who have built several houses with just the two of them. I have helped build picnic tables, I watched my grandfather turn my metal bunkbed frame into a roll cage for a stock car.

The BBs and Pep allow me to learn skills that make me feel more connected to my older generation who can't teach/show me everything. I really think more people would start doing BBs if they knew about it! Getting the word out must be difficult, and I just randomly stumbled on it during research on turning trees into posts by hand.

I am doing PEP for the skill building and fun it provides. I can't wait to learn and troubleshoot with everyone here.

I’m getting started with skip I’m still trying to familiarize myself with the forms and trying to stop procrastinating on carving that first wooden spoon to get my first badge bit for whatever it’s worth. Would that be a woodworking, tool mending, or something else but I guess that’s besides the point of this post

The point of this post is that I’ve been having bad luck in the real world getting started with skip mainly in approaching people and at least two people that I have respect for me I’ve said that the problem lays in the very name skip skills to inherit property I want some more opinions

Not exactly related to the thread but I didn’t see a better place to put this post. If there is a cut it and paste it to there. so I’ve actually been reaching out to farmers at farmers markets Like this. Hay I don’t have any money to buy any vegetables but, I’m interested in being a farmhand, I’m interested in doing free labor The only catch is that I get to document that I did it and then I get to upload it to this thing called skip skills to inherit property and I basically never hear back from them I’m starting to wonder I figure it’s very succinct very straight to the point and doesn’t waste their time. It’s very clear very concise have a feeling I’m doing something wrong? But I’m also wondering if the Name of the program might be a metaphorical Achilles’ heel in many circumstances. The very phrase skills to inherit property might turn People away from the program? because they think what are you trying to steal my land for me somehow??? I’ve heard the phrase people are really Cageie I’m from, Friends have insinuated without  actually saying it at where I’m from people are really guarded; and well they’re nice they’re also suspicious others and refused to accept stuff without something in return. In other words the idea of some thing for nothing is insulting and suspicious to them

I’m wondering if it might be worth a rebrand of skip or something like a parallel or sub program I thought of the phrase/name P.A.S.S. or ( Permaculture advancement, skills and success )

I  am wondering when someone “says skills to inherit property” if that is kind of repulsive to some people whereas if you say hey there’s this thing that I’m doing I’d be willing to do some labor for free around your land in exchange I get to document Through pictures and videos the fact that I did it, whatever ( it ) is. Maybe a farm pond, maybe pruning an apple orchard, maybe a ( Hügl culture bed, ) I can’t spell that ) and then upload it to a forum that counts towards a résumé for being a landscape architect, Farmer, botanist, horticulturalist etc. or something like that what do you think are you interested?

So anyways what do the forms think?

Establish a parallel program that’s basically skills to inherit property without the property inheritance part and Collett pass Pirma culture advancement skills and success???

I think it's probably best to not mention the "inherit property" part when talking to farmers.  I'd just say I'm participating in a skill building merit badge system, kinda like scouts, and I'd love to do some of the things at your place.  Like splitting and stacking firewood or putting a roof on a shed.

Later on you can mention the inheritance angle if you want but I'd be very clear that you're looking elsewhere for that connection since there's a very low chance that particular farmer would be your Otis.

I'd also look through the BBs to see which ones you really need to do on a farm.  I'm guessing you could get to PEP1 with only doing a dozen BBs on other properties.

Self sufficiency, be self reliant, and finally have my dream home of a little cabin in the woods. With a homestead of mini livestock and standard sized chickens. Also want to grow my own food. (Where the homestead comes in). I am a Farmer's daughter, I have grown up with horses, chickens, pigs, turkeys, barn cats, (everything but sheep, cattle and donkeys). I have also grown crops as well. I also have experience in living in cold weather, as I have lived in the Berkshires of Western Massachusetts. (I now, though, live in the burbs of WA state)..

I would love to inherit property from someone who knows I'll take care of it.  That isn't my only reason, though.  I will have property whether I inherit or buy it.  That being said, I want to know how to care for it.  I've also found that I like knowing how to do things.  I like knowing how to fix my own car/truck.  I like knowing how to maintain my own equipment.  My dream is to have my own property, permaculture it, live on it, be supported by it, and have a low carbon footprint.  Besides, I am enjoying this challenge and all the BBs on my posts!

I changed careers so have been directing all my energy to my new company.  It is finally working fine, and is seasonal, so now I have the time to do SKIP.
I had to figure out how to upload photos by creating a shutterfly account that would hold them online for me.  Plus, some of what I read mentioned to decrease their size so you could see them on a page.  Fun stuff!

I am not looking for an Otis and have some skepticism towards the idea, but for me the badges and badge bits are a guide to learning permmaculture skills and developing my homestead (I have 17 acres). That also means that I will pick and chose and may decide that some of the things Paul deems cool do not fit into my plans and I'm okay with that. I have shown the skip program to a friend of mine who runs a summer camp for youth where they teach homesteading skills. I figured the Skip book could literally become their textbook/ guideline to what they work on. I like the structure the program provides.

Didn't I answer that question? Then it must have been another thread on the same subject ...
I just like/love doing those BBs. Maybe I'm proud of what I can do and I like to show it. Or I want to encourage others to do those things, practice those skills, too.
As you can see below I have quite a few BBs ;-)

If I had land I would not be an 'Otis', because probably my children would want to inherit it and I would like them to inherit it. But I do not own any land, I only have rented gardens (next to my ground-floor apartment and an allotment garden). I am not interested to inherit anyone's land (and I don't think there are any Otisses here in the Netherlands). Probably because I don't own land (I'm more like a hobby gardener/permaculturist) I do have the time to make photos for BBs.

Why am I doing SKIP?

I never want to stop learning.

I’ve always believed I could learn just about anything if I set my mind to it and worked hard. That’s been true so far in my life, especially in word-smithing and book-learning, which are my specialties. I place a lot of value on writing well and speaking clearly and reading as many books as I can get my hands on.

Now, I also want to turn my efforts to working with my hands, with tools, and—especially—learning the kinds of skills I want my children to have. If I don’t know these things, how can I teach my children well? There are ways… but it’s much lovelier to learn a thing and let your children join you on your journey, and be able to guide them on their own.

(And honestly, most of what children learn, especially young children, is by observing their parents. Is what you say you believe and what you actually do the same thing? A child will pick up on that dissonance, and if the two don’t match up, then later they may decide you never believed those things at all, or that they weren’t important to you, or real. So if I want my children to value playing in the dirt over staring at a smartphone, for instance, I need to practice that myself.)

My husband knows how to do quite a bit of this stuff already, but I'd love to know as well. For myself, and so we can work together more effectively. Working together is much more fun than working alone.

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Beyond that, permaculture aligns with my beliefs.

It makes sense to me that a loving Trinitarian God would design a world that’s interconnected, where nothing goes to waste—a world full of intricacy and purpose and beauty—a world that’s meant to be thoughtfully and lovingly stewarded. A world meant for harmony rather than dissonance, a world of symmetry and cycles, where seeming disorder is actually orderly, and where everything has a meaning and purpose, whether or not we can comprehend it.

Any system of beliefs only means something if practiced. So… here I am, learning to be a good steward. SKIP is a way to keep me learning, keep me accountable, keep me motivated. It’s not the only tool I could choose, not the only way to learn, but it’s a good one, so I’ll use this it as my springboard.

(A lot of people chafe against “structure” and “formula” and “rules” and “discipline.” I actually think those things are useful. If I practice silence daily and set myself a five minute rule, my mind may rebel against it. If I exercise each morning and require myself to complete fifteen minutes of stretches at the end, I may want to stop before the fifteen minutes. Can I practice silence without a five minute rule? Can I exercise without exactly fifteen minutes of stretching? Of course. We don’t value the rule for itself, or the discipline for its own sake, but for the way it shapes us—for the end it will bring.)

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While my husband and I only have a 1/2 acre now, this little patch of land is ours to steward and to care for, to bring into flourishing with all the creativity and ingenuity we can offer. When the opportunity for more land comes, I want to be ready.

(And yes, if somebody wanted to offer us land to steward, and it was in the right place, we'd take that opportunity in a heartbeat. But that would pretty much be a miracle, because we love where we live and have our hearts set on living not more than twenty minutes from our families, right here in the Shenandoah Valley.)