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elle sagenev wrote:I have a massive, stinking, loud, ground vibrating oil well near me right now. So, even buying a property "in the middle of nowhere" does not guarantee you niceness. Your location sounds nice, and being in the budget makes it sound nicer.
I'd say a drawback might be crime. There has been an uptick in crime in our area because of oil drilling. It brings different people out. We have dogs. Keeps us safe.
Don Fini wrote: I would check zoning and inquire about any upcoming zoning changes. I know the area I grew up in was in the rust belt. The main thing that was on everything was lead. It was a heavy manufacturing area and most had been shuttered for a couple decades by then.
I would ask about water testing, air testing, lead test done on the inside and outside of the house. What will happen to taxes if there are any zoning changes? Are any factories in stamping ? Some of those presses can shake your house and crack plaster!
Good luck in your quest though, if it’s meant to be there it will happen.
- Pancake
Brian Jeffrey wrote: There can be lots of loud squeeling of train breaks, and large clangs as the trains are pushed and pulled apart in the train yard. The times when they build trains seems random, literally any hour of the day or night. It can be annoying at times, but it is something that you get used to. Thankfully there is no smells or dust from any of the industry near me. I lived near the dog food factory in Denver, and I would NEVER live near a smelly anything. Finding out what these factories do would be an important decision.
Before I actually got the property I am on, I visited the house and area frequently. I wanted to know what the area was like on the weekends, weekday nights, the 4th of July etc. . . . . I would reccomend you observe the area at busy and calm items of day, get a feel for the flow of the neighborhood. Would you want to be hanging out outside in your own yard there?
Nails are sold by the pound, that makes sense.
Kc Simmons wrote:I agree with much of what the previous comments say. It sounds like you may have found a good place that meets your needs & allow you to fulfill your homesteading plans.
As others have said, it would be a good idea to check out the area at different times/days to observe the traffic, people, smells, sounds, etc. I would even try to check out the property on a rainy day to observe how the land handles the water.
Ultimately, I think you should trust your instinct. Since buying a house is a big investment, it's normal to have doubts; but consider how it feels when you walk in the door. I would be more likely to buy something that felt like I was home versus something that felt like a lodging.
It's also good to remember that it doesn't have to be permanent. If, after a few years, you decide this isn't your permanent home, you have the option to put a for sale sign on the property. Heck, if you go in & make improvements to the house and land, you could even end up making money from the sale.![]()
Let us know what you decide!
Rufus Laggren wrote:What town is nearby? What has been in the local news for the last 5 years or so? County news? What is happening to the area?
You can absolutely for sure find out what all those factories are doing, their history, etc. Double check the "computer" one and see what it's doing and what chemicals it's using (if any) and how it disposes of them.
Generally, what's happening in that area economically? Who runs that area? County? City? How is it policed? What fire department?
What are you buying, what rights or easements with the land?
If the town is not too far and it has a library, the librarian can be a HUGE source of info, both particular and general.
What is the soil like, what rainfall is usual?
If you have plans, does the area have what you need to make them happen? Markets?
Somebody mentioned a berm along the road. +1 get it up 8' and you won't hear the road. Build it well and it will way outlast a fence and maybe it won't look quite so fence like.
Talk to as many neighbors as you possible can. They could well be your "most important people". Ask about the history of the place, ask about the seasons and the weather, ask about the inet connection, ask about the phone service and gas and electricity. Ask about the factory workers, ask if the bakery makes good stuff, ask, ask, ask, talk, talk, talk.
If the house has been on the market for a while, it's likely to stay on the market for a while more. Figure out why it hasn't sold and lower your offer accordingly - provided the reason isn't a problem for you.
There is a whole lot you can learn about a place just by spending time and asking questions. Much of the info may not be meaningful to you, but it's still good to go and gather it. Just talking to a lot of people will start to fill you in on the place in ways you _do_ understand.
Best luck,
Rufus
Kenneth Elwell wrote:
Brian Jeffrey wrote: There can be lots of loud squeeling of train breaks, and large clangs as the trains are pushed and pulled apart in the train yard. The times when they build trains seems random, literally any hour of the day or night. It can be annoying at times, but it is something that you get used to. Thankfully there is no smells or dust from any of the industry near me. I lived near the dog food factory in Denver, and I would NEVER live near a smelly anything. Finding out what these factories do would be an important decision.
Before I actually got the property I am on, I visited the house and area frequently. I wanted to know what the area was like on the weekends, weekday nights, the 4th of July etc. . . . . I would reccomend you observe the area at busy and calm items of day, get a feel for the flow of the neighborhood. Would you want to be hanging out outside in your own yard there?
Very much YES to this... Spend some time doing research on the businesses (past and present) pay particular attention to "empty industrial lots" (satellite maps can be informative) If it is fenced/gated off, or razed to concrete pads, investigate... Search "Superfund sites" and the "city" you are in, see what shows up... (I'm within 10 minutes of all those places in the movie "A Civil Action")
There's a gelatin factory nearby us, and on days when the wind shifted our way we could tell what "flavor" it was they were making. There was one that was not fruity (unflavored?) that was unpleasant. "Luckily" it will be closed and turned into a massive mixed use development...
Another area nearby that I frequent has a HUGE commercial bakery. Bread baking in your home oven is lovely, but the stuff that collects in/on/around commercial conveyor ovens and "bakes" for an entire shift, not so much.
Do as Brian says and visit the place all times of day and night, and take it in. Take a friend, or your partner along, they might notice something you won't. Listen, smell, check out traffic and routes to get where you need to go... go shopping, get lunch, dinner, coffee, etc.
My parents were shown a house by a real estate agent, and were led or driven there through a nice neighborhood, on a Sunday... turns out the house was at the end of the road where it met a state highway!! On a return visit (on their own, another day) they found out just how bad it was.
Brian Jeffrey wrote:I live in a busy urban industrial area myself. Beyond my back fence is 15 feet of birches and sumacs, a bike trail, an Amtrak/freight line and full train yard, and then the back of the city plaza (Walmart/tjmaxx etc). I could almost hit the Walmart fence from my yard with a baseball its so close.
There can be lots of loud squeeling of train breaks, and large clangs as the trains are pushed and pulled apart in the train yard. The times when they build trains seems random, literally any hour of the day or night. It can be annoying at times, but it is something that you get used to. Thankfully there is no smells or dust from any of the industry near me. I lived near the dog food factory in Denver, and I would NEVER live near a smelly anything. Finding out what these factories do would be an important decision.
Before I actually got the property I am on, I visited the house and area frequently. I wanted to know what the area was like on the weekends, weekday nights, the 4th of July etc. . . . . I would reccomend you observe the area at busy and calm items of day, get a feel for the flow of the neighborhood. Would you want to be hanging out outside in your own yard there?
One positive thing I have experienced from living in an industrial area, is the availability of scrap materials. I have access to old windows, cull lumber, dirt fill, tree cutting leftovers, and pallets, oh my gosh so many good pallets. If you end up living by industrial businesses, they can be a wonderful source of resources.
I would thoroughly research and think through your needs and "no's" deeply. But buying a homestead property like the one you are describing can be an amazing opportunity to make a life. I am thoroughly happy with my decision.
town nearby is just an average college town, there is not much in the local news that seems alarming. Aside from the local team not winning at sports or someone going on to get a scholarship or well known job, there really isn't much in the headlines. I'd say the economy has held steady in the area for the past decade due to it mostly focusing on the University. Most of the factories and distribution centers have been there for ten too fifteen years. The computer parts facility is owned by the University and shares a property with a computer sciences laboratory. The fellow that owns the property now used to work at the computer lab and has been retired for five years. Technically the city limits ends across the street from the house, so there are no restrictions, but the 'town' part of the city is about five miles away. There is a library, multiple museums, an observatory, two farmers markets (Supposedly the Wednesday night market near the University is very profitable more so for crafts and canned food than fresh produce.) etc..
- Pancake
Gail Jardin wrote:
Kenneth Elwell wrote:
Brian Jeffrey wrote: There can be lots of loud squeeling of train breaks, and large clangs as the trains are pushed and pulled apart in the train yard. The times when they build trains seems random, literally any hour of the day or night. It can be annoying at times, but it is something that you get used to. Thankfully there is no smells or dust from any of the industry near me. I lived near the dog food factory in Denver, and I would NEVER live near a smelly anything. Finding out what these factories do would be an important decision.
Before I actually got the property I am on, I visited the house and area frequently. I wanted to know what the area was like on the weekends, weekday nights, the 4th of July etc. . . . . I would reccomend you observe the area at busy and calm items of day, get a feel for the flow of the neighborhood. Would you want to be hanging out outside in your own yard there?
Very much YES to this... Spend some time doing research on the businesses (past and present) pay particular attention to "empty industrial lots" (satellite maps can be informative) If it is fenced/gated off, or razed to concrete pads, investigate... Search "Superfund sites" and the "city" you are in, see what shows up... (I'm within 10 minutes of all those places in the movie "A Civil Action")
There's a gelatin factory nearby us, and on days when the wind shifted our way we could tell what "flavor" it was they were making. There was one that was not fruity (unflavored?) that was unpleasant. "Luckily" it will be closed and turned into a massive mixed use development...
Another area nearby that I frequent has a HUGE commercial bakery. Bread baking in your home oven is lovely, but the stuff that collects in/on/around commercial conveyor ovens and "bakes" for an entire shift, not so much.
Do as Brian says and visit the place all times of day and night, and take it in. Take a friend, or your partner along, they might notice something you won't. Listen, smell, check out traffic and routes to get where you need to go... go shopping, get lunch, dinner, coffee, etc.
My parents were shown a house by a real estate agent, and were led or driven there through a nice neighborhood, on a Sunday... turns out the house was at the end of the road where it met a state highway!! On a return visit (on their own, another day) they found out just how bad it was.
There really isn't much of a neighborhood. It is literally just factories with a few houses holding out on the edge of the woods. Beyond the houses are a few farms and up past the factories there are a few subdivisions, then conservation land, then more farms. I guess the subdivisions which I am assuming is where most of the factory workers live would be the nearest neighborhood. I looked up superfund sites and there are not any in the county, the local University is big on ecology both forestry and speleology so I have a feeling pollution may be somewhat regulated because of that? I feel the bakery and the dog food factory may be olfactory displeasing some times of the day. I have a few miles from a factory hog farm and when the wind would shift it would be misery so I'm thinking it can't be worse that that, unless there is a rendering plant at the dog food place!
Finding the hard way to do anything.
Steve Mendez wrote:Our homestead is on .40 acre in a residential neighborhood in the city.
Our aquaculture farm is on .25 acre of rented ground several miles away in a rural area but next to a large industrial complex (municipal wastewater treatment plant)
Our small farm is part of a very large property that has an artesian geothermal well and a large clean cold spring. Some of the water from these two sources gravity flows to our farm site in underground pipes. We are able to adjust the flow and temperature individually in 30 large fiberglass troughs. I think a situation like this with natural soft warm water and clean hard cold water at the same location is very rare. It has been the ideal location for our farm.
Occasionally there is a background odor from the facility but it is not as strong as the occasional odor of the composting manure from our animals.
It is a quiet neighbor, with clean well kept grounds, friendly personnel that keep our road plowed in the winter, and they don't mind the loud bellowing from our animals during breeding season.
We've rented this place for over 25 years.
Brian Jeffrey wrote:
town nearby is just an average college town, there is not much in the local news that seems alarming. Aside from the local team not winning at sports or someone going on to get a scholarship or well known job, there really isn't much in the headlines. I'd say the economy has held steady in the area for the past decade due to it mostly focusing on the University. Most of the factories and distribution centers have been there for ten too fifteen years. The computer parts facility is owned by the University and shares a property with a computer sciences laboratory. The fellow that owns the property now used to work at the computer lab and has been retired for five years. Technically the city limits ends across the street from the house, so there are no restrictions, but the 'town' part of the city is about five miles away. There is a library, multiple museums, an observatory, two farmers markets (Supposedly the Wednesday night market near the University is very profitable more so for crafts and canned food than fresh produce.) etc..
I think this is a great plus to the property. I can't express how nice it is to have an interesting and eventful community nearby. Farmers markets, and the arts and music that goes along with college towns, museums. I am kind if jealous :)
Rufus Laggren wrote:+1 on the value of a college town. Although students generally move the quality of local products lower (restaurants, stores, food available at the local grocery (eg. lots of pizza and hamburger, not so much steak and escargo...) just by acting like students, they add a lot of energy and generally the school means there will be "cultural" stuff. I grew up in Evanston IL and have been spending several months a year there. Northwestern University owns about 10%-15% of the city real estate. That's some different from what you're describing, but it does give a little perspective on students.
The computer business can be either innocuous or pure poison. If they make chips or even circuit boards, the chemicals they use are really bad. Fortunately (sorta) we have mostly shipped the "heavy" electronic manufacturing to Asia where they are poisoning water and workers over there. If they just assemble parts brought in from elsewhere, they may not have much of a waste footprint at all.
> news
Economic and political news. Companies moving in/out. Town hawking the beauty of the work force to multinationals (sic). The police chief found to be a member of the KKK and his brother in law running the assessor's office. Law suits or Feds investigating local companies. State cutting funds to the school by 20%. Stuff like that. Since you say your potential property is outside the town line, the affect of town politics is more indirect, but it is surely there. And towns _do_ expand. Ask about the permit process for a fence; then ask about putting a barn in; then ask about putting in a pond (might want to do the last kinda quietly). County bureaucracy, while much "lighter" than municipal authority, does exercise some control. Tailor your concerns to your plans as you know them at the moment.
Lastly, t'were I, I'd try to put in place a plan to buy the neighboring properties if at all possible and reasonable. (Affordable down, low carrying costs, potential rental income, perhaps from share croppers.) Watch the local real estate and business activity regularly all the time and get a sense of what offer might get you control of your surrounding. If you know your area with some confidence you don't necessarily need an agent to make offers directly to owners; you do _not_ have to wait to see a sign or find it posted on Zillow.. Those empty houses sound like somebody may be willing to entertain thoughts of selling. I know this sounds way beyond your present concerns, but keep an eye on what's going on. Does the census show this area increasing population? Does it show average age dropping or is it in the 50's and getting higher? Wikipedia has some of this stuff and it helps to fill out a picture of what keeps the wheels turning, which direction they turn, and whether it looks stable for the longer term.
Sounds like a pretty good situation on the face of it. Depending on your personal plans and resources, of course.
Best luck,
Rufus
Gail Jardin wrote:There are endless field trip opportunities just in the one town. My biggest concern is the five mile trip from the industrial area into the town and coordinating all the teens activities with only one car and still getting to spend enough time on the mini far :)
Charli Wilson wrote:I most certainly would homestead in an industrial area- I find industrial neighbours to be less nosy than domestic ones!
My garden and community garden are both on old coal mines- its what all the land around here is! I live betwewn two industrial estates-the trucks can be annoying but it is lovely and quite at weekends when the factories are closed (in the week I work on one of those same industrial estates).
C. E. Rice wrote:
Gail Jardin wrote:There are endless field trip opportunities just in the one town. My biggest concern is the five mile trip from the industrial area into the town and coordinating all the teens activities with only one car and still getting to spend enough time on the mini far :)
Wow! Such great feedback and discussion has already been made.... l'll be short...
Having lived in a subdivision about 3-4 miles from town(very rural-ish) but along a stretch of road that has tons of warehouses and certain times of the day with big rigs(truck and trailors) backed up past our subdivision's turnoff.....
DON'T try to get overly active with every opportunity or engagement.... it will frazzle and wear you down driving 5 miles along such a road. And you will have to learn/find what times of the day that traffic is heaviest. Depending on stop lights.... your 5 mile commute could take 20-30min!
The other comment.... close to what others have said.... that truck traffic is putting out diesel exhaust that can choke you up... as well as drop pollutants(unburned diesel...black soot etc) when their engines are cold. So roadside ditch/ water runoff should be viewed as being mostly toxic. Have room for reed beds? haha
At certain times with wind and temperature and such... the exhaust fumes could blanket your property and be quite a turn-off!
Aside from that..... it actually seems like a good compromise of a place.... based on expense and acreage and surrounding woods/nature/open space etc. Plus... it is on the way to nature spaces(the fishing you mentioned!?) big plus!!
Hope you get all your questions answered and are able to purchase it(assuming the overall answer comes to "YES").
Peace
I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but, I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
Kit Hammes wrote:I didn't get to read through everyone's posts, but I got through about half.
One thing that stuck out that I hadn't seen mentioned is that industry tends to clump together, even without major zoning. You may not have an actively polluting industry in that area now, but that can change quickly. You'll want to check with your state environmental quality website to see if there has been any applications to build new facilities.
Crime with the abandoned homes nearby can be a real issue. And trucks (especially when they engine brake) can be incredibly noisy. These are both things that can be mitigated, though, with enough work
You had mentioned not wanting your kids to miss out on homesteading while you keep looking for the "perfect homestead." Is your intent to stay here or later move to a bigger or different property? Land values will struggle to increase with the industry nearby and selling the property later will be difficult if you ever plan to move to a different property. The current owners seem to be struggling with that themselves.
Trust your instincts. You know the situation and your wishes best.
Best of luck,
Kit
Kevin Carson wrote:Urban areas sound ideal in many ways for a return to something like the European village model rather than the American model of individual family farmsteads separated by lots of acreage. I think the wave of the future, as the old corporate mass-production industry and welfare states decay, will probably be co-living/co-housing projects with intensive horticulture and machine workshops integrated into them -- something like Kropotkin's "agro-industrial communes." The implosion of cost for tabletop CNC machines over the last few decades only increases the feasibility of it. An urban area opens up all the possibilities currently being explored in new municipalist movements like Barcelona, Jackson MS, etc., and the land trusts, tool libraries, hackerspaces, community gardens and all the rest of the stuff they're developing.
Phil Swindler wrote:S Benji's comment about heavy metals is a wise one.
Not too many years ago the school district in Coffeyville Kansas build the largest grade school in the state. Problem with that was, in my opinion, they built it right across the street from an old closed sherwin williams lead smelting plant. Sherwin wiilliams had gone to great expense to clean up the lead from the top foot or two of their property. However, lead dust can travel several hundred yards before it settles. Sherwin williams hadn't cleaned up beyond their property line. So there is high lead levels in the soil in a couple square miles of CoffeyWeville. That school is right across the street.
But, if it is clean of contaminants, the location could make it a better price.
When my wife and were house shopping we followed this procedure.
We made of list of what we wanted to do on our property, not just what we wanted to have.
We wanted to be able to garden, have a few fruit trees, barbecue, do my woodworking, tinker with the cars, have the grand kids over, etc.
Having a list of what we wanted to do not just what we wanted to have changed our perspective on some places we looked at.
We prioritized both the to do and the to have lists and gave the top 5 or 6 items from each list to the realtor.
With some of the places he showed us it was evident he didn't have a clue about sun angles and adequate light for growing things.
But, at least everything he showed us had a space equivalent to a garden.
“All good things are wild, and free.” Henry David Thoreau
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