Gary Nabhan is one of the most important food writers we have in this country. In this eloquent and fascinating book, he shows us how our food and culture are so deeply rooted in our land and agriculture. - Alice Waters, owner of Chez Panisse
This exploration of the coevolution of communities and their native foods couldn’t be more timely…Mixing hard science with personal anecdotes, Nabhan convincingly argues that health comes from a genetically appropriate diet inextricably entwined with a healthy land and culture. – Publishers Weekly
Nick Simcheck wrote:
I call it the 1882 diet.
If it didn't exist in 1882, don't eat it.
Johnny Niamert wrote:
Does this include cultivars?
Nick Simcheck wrote:
.... You Sir, have poked a hole in my theory/ideology.
But then again I'd rather eat 1882 than 1981. Maybe I should make a provision for "natural advancement and breeding of both plant and animal"
I'm back on track!
ariel greenwood wrote:yeah. eesh.
having accepted that those debates are pretty poor formats for a thoughtful discussion of the important matters they take on, what's sat on my mind the longest from that debate is Salatin's assertion that you can't have a sustainable, closed-loop annual vegetable operation without manure, to which one of his opponents (can't remember his name) retorted no, wait! there's veganic agriculture! it's a thing!
it got me wondering about it; I know there are farms relying on cover cropping for their vegetable fertility. some of them are undertaking this primarily to avoid any kind of dealings with feed lot of concentrated indoor operations, both from an ethical and a practical perspective (concerns about low-quality or "polluted" poo due to their diets and medications).
however, I got to thinking, how practical is it for a farm's fertility to depend on imported bags of cover crop seeds? and what kind of mechanization, fossil-fuel use, or animal wastes were used in the production of those seeds? besides, a mono culture of a flowering clover is still a monoculture. beyond a few acres you get many of the same issues found in very large monocultures.
I'm not trying to be overly pedantic or necessarily justify having animals incorporated into every agricultural operation, and I'm the last to herald an impossible ideal if it undermines real progress on the ground. but I'd like to see more consideration put into this topic; it's not just enough to say "cover crops!!!"
Johnny Niamert wrote:
I wasn't trying to!
I would have been very impressed, if you had...
I ask because one of the paleo-diet books I read mentioned this (Primal Body, Primal Mind. Gedgaudas). Fruits and veggies today, for the most-part, are bred for primarily for high sugar, low fiber, and low acidity/tannin levels.
Gordon Shephard wrote:I could only stomach about half the podcast. The "debate" format strikes me as just about the worst possible way to engage in a meaningful human exchange. Its purpose seems to be more a way to limit mutual understanding in order to facilitate the creation of oppositional camps. Then, of course, if some decision is actually to be made, it can fall to the group with the biggest stick.
But, I suppose it does sell NPR memberships.
Kevo Jurkowski wrote:(clipped ...)
What I really wanted to piggyback on was the topic of logical fallacies and critical thinking. Not being able to identify fallacious arguments is a very big problem in western culture. I just wanted to leave a few resources for people that may want to study up a bit more. I also would like to introduce the concept of the TRIVIUM.( I will leave a video below) Learning about logical fallacies and the trivium is like "kung fu for the mind,or intellectual self-defense". Jan Irvin of Gnostic Media and Tragedy and Hope Communications have done a mountain of work concerning these topics. I hope they are helpful to some of you. I know they were helpful for me. I also have attached a list of logical fallacies in PDF below.
People desperately need to be versed in this stuff. To many people wind up being duped by the talking heads on the boob tube. If you find yourself thinking that the arguments on the evening news make perfect logical sense. THIS IS FOR YOU!
Keep up the great dialogue!
Kevo Jurkowski wrote:
What I really wanted to piggyback on was the topic of logical fallacies and critical thinking. Not being able to identify fallacious arguments is a very big problem in western culture. I just wanted to leave a few resources for people that may want to study up a bit more. I also would like to introduce the concept of the TRIVIUM.
He was giving me directions and I was powerless to resist. I cannot resist this tiny ad:
Dave Burton's Boot Adventures at Wheaton Labs and Basecamphttps://permies.com/t/119676/permaculture-projects/Dave-Burton-Boot-Adventures-Wheaton