NonViolent Communication is an excellent thing to use in Permaculture Education

http://www.youtube.com/embed/UEqmZ2E1o64

I'd want my child to be in a "Giraffe School" if we were somehow unable to home school.

Has anyone else found NVC useful? I enjoyed listening to Paul's podcast on it, and it has really allowed me to put into action what I've always wanted to especially as a father and a Christian - I can communicate with my family in a way that fully respects them and erases anger, pain and suffering - it's amazing! I don't always have the energy (yet!) to do it but I know how now! Thanks Paul!

Thanks for sharing that. I've embedded the video below.

I think NVC is great and very hard to practice. Like Paul said in his podcast - it is often used as a weapon by people who do not know how to use it correctly yet... (Incl me and my husband TBH). I think that in my home schooling and marriage the most beneficial thing I have learned is "assume good intentions".

Thanks for posting it for me!!

For me, personally, I was already trying to assume good intentions as part of being a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, but I never understood how empathy worked mechanically. I've only experienced Empathy a few times in my life in a familial context growing up; it was superbly Jackal - politician mom & successful businessman in management father. I just didn't understand the difference between sympathy and empathy outside of the dictionary definition. It was an endless game of Who's Right.

My 8 year old is picking it all up really fast; it's what he's always wanted communication to be like. I use it in my classroom everyday.

I just devoutly wanted to be able to do this for myself since it seems obvious to me that Christ is a master nonviolent communicator; it's the mechanical way we actually accomplish loving our enemies & transcending suffering into joy. It helped me accomplish this need, so I find it very useful.

I also found watching the 3 hr and 9 hr versions helpful. I'm watching the 3 hr one again with my 4 & 8 yr old.

I like clear, concise language. To me, if there's no actual threat to life and limb, it's nonviolent. More than one speaker at the community center has used the nonviolent angle to quash dissent when those in the crowd expressed a difference of opinion with that speaker.

From what I've seen and learned from Marshal Rosenberg's NVC training, it may be different for other trainings, you cannot possibly use it as a weapon; that's not NVC if that is what is happening. It is concise by nature. I also have read and taught On Writing Well that teaches brevity in writing and thinking thoroughly, so maybe that could help.

What do you mean by "community center"? Like in an ecovillage? I think that may be related to what Geoff Lawton calls EgoVillages.

It was the Fernwood community center in the city of Victoria. One speaker suggested that a man in the crowd was becoming violent. He had voiced concerns that a meeting had gone way off topic. Posters advertised that the meeting was about GMO foods and labeling. We were treated to a long tirade from a panelist who wanted to have greater funding for abortion clinics. His dissent was not to be tolerated. Accusation is a lazy rhetorical tool that often shuts down debate.

Wow! That must have been difficult to experience. I have a desire to help us all feel more empathy (joyful connection) that was where this post was coming from.

I am also a public high school teacher (and a charter one too), and I find that most communications in a "normal" high school deny choice and are "violent" in NVC terms. I think the real problem is when we (NVC explorers or those trained) judge other people for being Jackal speakers because that is not NVC. I don't think we are equipped to judge accurately anyone; we are too complex. I also think most religions try to convey this truth. As a high school teacher, being truly nonjudgmental is what we want to be if we are to truly be supportive of all learners equitably. For me it allows me to create empathic structures and experiences in that construct of public education.

Are there no examples of people using NVC positively outside Marshal Rosenberg?

Hello Matt: About NVC, in my teacher training, I introduce NVC over a morning. So its quite a bit of the course. And then I get specific about Language which Works and Language which Doesn't. Actually I start with the negative and test the class and ask them for their reactions to certain phrases.

And we do body behaviour as well. It's a fun class as we role play the negatives and then the positives and talk about how we felt and changed using different language.

It is a necessary part of my tools as a teacher trying to model Care of People. I'd be struggling without it.

Your son is lucky. There's a program called HIPP - Help Improve the Peace which is for school children. It's virtually the same at Alternatives to Violence Program AVP which goes further than language into other tools we have to defuse situations.

That's great Matt.

warmly

Rosemary

Thank you Rosemary!

I'm checking out HIPP now:
https://afsc.org/resource/help-increase-peace-project-hipp

I'm fascinated by NVC and this video is great! I think this way of communicating can be really powerful, but I agree with what I think other posters said, that it's not easy to practice NVC all the time, and it can even be done in a way where we think we're using NVC but we aren't and are instead still being judgmental or shutting people down. The other issue I have with it is that some of the phrases sound awkward as Rosenberg uses them. That question is raised in the video and he answers that once we're very comfortable with the concepts we can adapt the wording to make it our own, so I think that's important to realize.

Hi, guys! I'm logging in after forever. I hope you're all doing well and keeping safe.

I've been working from home for the past 3 years, so not many changes to my life during this pandemic. Was pleasantly surprised to see this thread on NVC. Part of my Master's thesis was on non-violent resistance, and its growing relevance in the contemporary world. Most political theorists who advocated non-violence drew substantially from Buddhism and Jainism, even from Gandhi's works. I find it deeply interesting that non-violence is the one thing that really bridges the gap between "civilization" and "spirituality," the latter almost always being used to signify a Luddite-like, backward-looking sensibility.

Civilization, with its focus on gentle persuasion, dialog, and civility can only benefit from NV. A great thing to cultivate!

Hello, I am new to Permies,
I live in rural NSW Australia, I see that this tread is about 6 years old. I am hoping that you will still read my post.
I am passionate about NVC Compassionate Communication, I am also passionate about  Permaculture. They go hand in hand together.
Additionally, Connected Parenting (Patty Wipfler) and homeschooling are also wonderful.
Altogether these ingredients mix to make a wonderful harmonious life greater than the sum of the individual components.
I understand that practice groups for NVC are very useful for making the transition to this new paradigm of thought.
While my daughter was young I enjoyed reading to her and I found that I was able to edit and filter out the jackal language and the black and white ridged concepts.
Now my daughter loves to read independently. I have noticed in her a change and I see her using jackal concepts and language regularly.
I have not found any families locally who are practising NVC.
I am grieving and need support.
Does anyone  know any books that use giraffe language?
How do other families support their children in NVC while homeschooling?
Thank you,

You might want to check out the Natural Child Project on the net.

www.naturalchild.org

Bronwyn Brown wrote:Hello, I am new to Permies,
I live in rural NSW Australia, I see that this tread is about 6 years old. I am hoping that you will still read my post.
I am passionate about NVC Compassionate Communication, I am also passionate about  Permaculture. They go hand in hand together.
Additionally, Connected Parenting (Patty Wipfler) and homeschooling are also wonderful.
Altogether these ingredients mix to make a wonderful harmonious life greater than the sum of the individual components.
I understand that practice groups for NVC are very useful for making the transition to this new paradigm of thought.
While my daughter was young I enjoyed reading to her and I found that I was able to edit and filter out the jackal language and the black and white ridged concepts.
Now my daughter loves to read independently. I have noticed in her a change and I see her using jackal concepts and language regularly.
I have not found any families locally who are practising NVC.
I am grieving and need support.
Does anyone  know any books that use giraffe language?
How do other families support their children in NVC while homeschooling?
Thank you,

I feel your pain.  My kids are avid readers,  and some children's book series model very negative personal interactions that the kids pick up on-- same as TV. Rest assured that your own behaviors will be a stronger influence in their lives.  

Personally,  I find that it helps to take the time to read what your kids are reading / watch what they ate watching,  and discuss with them on an open as and equal footing what you think of the media. E.g. "I don't like how the main character is talks to her brother,  it seems like she is hurting his feelings, what do you think"  it gets them thinking critically about the media they consume rather than just accepting at face value.

I won't buy the kids books or movies I find really offensive,  but won't ban them either,  I just discuss with them why I do not like those.

Another resource that exists today is drL, "deeply reflexive [un]-Learning," developed by people who were avid practitioners of NVC but found it had limitations.  There is more awareness of the body component of communication, the non-verbal, and sensation.  I would say it's more aligned with permaculture principles for putting the body in the picture--the body is nature's feedback.

If you want to learn drL, the international group is happy to help people learn this, and you can do video groups with people at a distance.  It's not the same as in-person, but this is how many things are being done currently during the pandemic, and it is still powerful and effective.  Purple moosage me if you want to pursue this.  Good luck!

Bronwyn this reply is quite late, Giraffe Juice (https://www.giraffejuice.com/)  is a lovely story based on NVC principles.


I have had in depth training in NVC and led practice groups for a number of years. I found some  people could use the words of NVC as a cudgel (while totally believing they were practicing NVC) , but not the principles. And while using the oft awkward language out loud likely would not work in many circumstances, thinking those words can help us show up in ways that build rather than break connection.

I agree with an earlier poster: NVC and permaculture are harmonious. To me they both are ways of working with nature rather than against.

Hi Everyone,

This is my first post on permies.com

I've practiced NVC for a couple of decades and use it in my personal life, my Permaculture Teacher Training and Dynamic Groups courses and on consultancies with groups and organisations who are struggling with their communications and group dynamics. I use it also as a facilitation tool if people get into a challenge with each other personally in a PDC or other Permaculture or Group trainings. It has always been effective and helped restore the peace.

I find it a powerful tool and experienced a big shift in my relationship with my 14 year old home educated son after he and I did a Foundations of NVC training many years ago.

In recent times I've ben in an ONGO group, a once a week for 12 weeks group, that uses a self guided workbook by the same name. It's designed for users to embody the NVC practices and Zen practice and I found it very empowering. I highly recommend it

Hi Robin,

Welcome to Permies.

I’ve benefited greatly from studying and practicing NVC, and paying others to listen to me using those standards.  However, I find it a hoot that it carries the name it does.  I would rather call it compassionate communication.

Looking for places to find it? They speak it in Mr Rogers Neighborhood.😊

Available on CDs.  I don’t know how else…. There’s a book about Fred Rogers I read recently, probably “the good neighbor, the life and work of Fred Rogers “. Which I found helpful and inspiring, as sometimes I get tired of using compassionate communication when I am not getting it in return.

Though he was no saint -according to his widow, I believe cc was his mother tongue, and he may never have learned a second language.

Joshua Myrvaagnes wrote:Another resource that exists today is drL, "deeply reflexive [un]-Learning," developed by people who were avid practitioners of NVC but found it had limitations.  There is more awareness of the body component of communication, the non-verbal, and sensation.  I would say it's more aligned with permaculture principles for putting the body in the picture--the body is nature's feedback.

If you want to learn drL, the international group is happy to help people learn this, and you can do video groups with people at a distance.  It's not the same as in-person, but this is how many things are being done currently during the pandemic, and it is still powerful and effective.  Purple moosage me if you want to pursue this.  Good luck!

Could you provide a link? I find no information about this.

Thanks for asking Abraham. It is an offline ghost, so all I can post is “drL according to Joshua” which is not the most up-to-date version and which is a post I put on Permies:

https://permies.com/t/109606/Consciousness-amplification-instrument-opportunity-learn

Scroll down a few posts .

I’d love to know your experiences if you try it. If you have a strong interest, I’m willing to teach it over videoconferencing or phone.

Abraham Palma wrote:

Joshua Myrvaagnes wrote:Another resource that exists today is drL, "deeply reflexive [un]-Learning," developed by people who were avid practitioners of NVC but found it had limitations.  There is more awareness of the body component of communication, the non-verbal, and sensation.  I would say it's more aligned with permaculture principles for putting the body in the picture--the body is nature's feedback.

If you want to learn drL, the international group is happy to help people learn this, and you can do video groups with people at a distance.  It's not the same as in-person, but this is how many things are being done currently during the pandemic, and it is still powerful and effective.  Purple moosage me if you want to pursue this.  Good luck!

Could you provide a link? I find no information about this.

I can also ask the international group about sharing their contact info.

This post reached me at the perfect time. I was wanting to confront my dad about his perspective on my spiritual views lol. The morning before meeting up, he got delayed and I checked out this post from my daily-ish and watched most of the video. Super timely and it reached me in a place where I feel like I have a good foundation for this to be added on to! My conversation with my dad was one of connection and empathy. He is on his own path and he will get to a point of more acceptance when he is ready, and I can love him either way. He has reasons for his views that bring him a feeling of safety that has served him. I learned my desire to change him came from my own need to feel accepted by him, and there are other ways to get that need met without requiring him to change (and I can see that changing people isn’t effective anyway!).

Solid stuff, I love this community!

That’s awesome Kenyon!