permaculture velocity

Paul, that 1 vs 2 thing is such a dilemma it seems to me. Those doing 1 often don't have time for 2 and / or maybe are not personalities that are comfortable with self promotion. And those doing 2 often find themselves required to travel so really can't do 1 and are thereby open to accusations of lacking credibility. This website is a fabulous resource for those of us doing 1 and is certainly a 'place' I've suggested to interested people but, it's getting the people interested that is difficult. Actually, interest isn't so hard but going beyond interest to action is quite another thing. I guess it's a slow process of osmosis; living alongside friends, rubbing shoulders, gradually the ideas/actions rub off. Maybe those promoting permaculture ideas as their own ith no aknowledgment of permaulture don't even realise where 'their' ideas came from.

The question was: how does one "step up"?

It is true that some people don't feel like doing 1 and 2 for a long list of reasons. So, those people probably won't be keynote speakers.

If a person does amazing innovation, but nobody hears about it - then they won't be a keynote speaker.

And all those going about 1 and 2 in their/ our different ways add to the velocity of permaculture as long as we keep those gauntlets off.

A sampler.



This video, all of the keynotes, and more are now posted HERE.
You have to subscribe to view them and you can get a discount if you went to PV1.

Here is Paul's keynote from PV1.
Overall I think there was some great points in here. The delivery isn't (wasn't) for everyone, and I think that is OK.
Thanks for being passionate and giving a shit Paul.

Hi Paul. I finally got around to listening to this. I haven't come across the sort of nastiness you're talking about, but I'm sure glad you make sure we don't come across it on Permies.com.

Firstly, thank you for releasing this presentation freelyrecently. I'm an introvert who has some experience in presenting in front of audiences of over a thousand people and know that it takes no small amount of energy.
The leader and the lead mentality goes right back the dawn of agriculture. The secure permanent culture we are looking for has been preyed upon throughout the ages. The Roman gladiatorial rings, Aztec sacrifices, child sacrifice to Molec are all very real imitations of an ancient culture where humans seem to have been dominated (and culled) by the spawn of titans. At least that is my interpretation of the (suppressed) evidence.
Göbeklitepe Belgeseli The Worlds First Temple


No matter how hard I try, I can't look at the world and the Permaculture ethos without the insights of twenty years of bible study. Children dying to cancer? That is nothing to these “people”.
So, thanks for keeping to the science Paul, you're a giant of man yet very human about it, but the culture steps into the realms of religion and that is a battleground.
As for making Permaculture a global phenomenon. Keep it open-source and free for truth seekers to find.
It is good to be working with the worlds depleted ecosystems, but the land has been cursed for a very long time and for a very good reason.
I'm currently studying a BTEC in Horticulture working for my legal fix of mycobacterium vaccae
http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/01/how-to-get-high-on-soil/251935/
Allen Savoury’s Holistic concepts are slightly at odds with Permaculture because is includes the flow of Money. When you start messing with big chunks of trade counters you are going to attract the attention of real rulers of the world. Maybe that is something to avoid?
I'm impatient for Jesus to get on and kick these guys in to touch too, but in the meantime we do what we can with what we have got – right?

Mostly this is just a bump for a good chewy thread. But:

paul wheaton wrote:
In a thread with this image:



The woman shared yet another amazing thing she did. And another woman commented that if somebody slept on that floor with a baby, then the baby would die and, therefore, the woman that was sharing would be a baby killer. The woman that was sharing saw the comment before we could delete it. She decided that she would never share again. After 500 posts, she never posted to permies again.

I also have to say: what a damned tragedy that we lost her that way. And what a wonderful picture. Although it's not the first thing that caught my eye, I love that she's storing a huge winter squash in the corner created by her clawfoot bathtub. In a yurt with no corners, you gotta be creative!

It's a great presentation, it's sane and thank you for doing all you've done for making a place where people can have dialogue.

I see a few points differently:
those who are quietly going about doing #1 (examples) are making a difference. Just because there are more visitors to code ranch than to permies doesn't mean there's something wrong here. There may be, but there's also a large degree of "apples and oranges" comparison. Let's look at what's right about the quiet examples:
--they are more convincing to people who respond primarily to quiet examples and are sensitive to sales-pitches or even a glossy presentation of any kind
--they are more useful to people (neighbors, and so on) who are local and hyperlocal than the more visible examples
--they are more comfortable for people who are just not ever going to be public persons or politicians--most people aren't that comfortable with the public eye, and there is no reason permaculture should be only for people who are really thick-skinned. We need both.
--also, the example of the bathtub poster who never posted again is something I want to revisit from a different perspective
--it's very sad to see someone treated this way, and to see the result of her never posting again under her name
--however, she may be posting under a pseudonym now
--she may post again in the future if not now
--she may be sharing the idea in other places and in other ways
--the problem is the solution--if someone leaves the public eye because of this kind of treatment, the problem is their lack of expression in that venue; that means colder baths for the people who have expressed judgment about this, and so they will learn from their experiences and at some point may reconsider; in terms of the aggressor's problem, that is the solution for their need to be heard and sure they're doing the right thing, a kind of cry for help. they may apologize at some point and amend the whole situation.
--for you, Paul, the solution is pretty much the same as what you've been doing--be Paul Wheaton, the loud brash bearish guy we all love and love to hate, and keep making this safe and calm place for people to have in-depth and constructive conversations.
--maybe you can incorporate some different thinking if any of what I've posted here rings true or looks useful
--for others, the solution is what is most appealing to that person individually--whether public or private, hyperlocal or hyper global or in between
--also, there's nothing wrong with doing a lot of #2 (in the sense you write), with the acknowledgement of "I should be doing more of #1 to be really qualified, I'm not pretending to have done #1 myself so take what I say with that understanding" It's useful work. Not more useful than #1 certainly, and sometimes it may not actually be as useful as it seems, but it's got it's place. It's broadcasting of seeds of new ideas, and who knows which will sprout.
--in terms of saying "I'm confident now that I am not sexist," that's going to put a bit of fuel on the fire. I think we are all sexist to some degree in some ways at some times. It's so ingrained. Women too are sexist. Someone who chooses to buy into internalized chauvinism is responsible for that. I would agree that in the choices of speakers for Permaculture Voices the choice had lots of reasons that were not based in excluding women. There is something to be said for some affirmative action, but can only stop the buck a bit. It's probably not the most effective point of intervention for curing sexism. Less visible choices will make more of a difference. The fact that male permaculture leaders are more popular, as you've pointed out, is a result of a mix of factors that were in play for a long time before the selection of speakers. It may be worth having one or a few speakers on the docket who is as unpopular as possible, or one who is picked at random. I don't know the details of how the thing is structured, but it's always good to bring in outside-the-box perspectives. It's more diplomatic and accurate to say "I make an effort not to perpetuate or continue patterns of sexism, and to be aware of and amend privilege differentials." To argue for progress not perfection. The fact is sexism, like other unsustainable patterns, is not going to turn around in a few decades, it's taking a while to unravel.
--anoher somewhat-related point: the women I know who are the best permaculturists in the world aren't visible to the public, self-publish their books, quietly do their teaching and their work out of the limelight, but are extremely successful, powerful, revolutionary, and free. Their work is gradually sneaking into mainstream a bit recently. It's been there, waiting patiently for decades for the right moment. As it should be. They wouldn't have it any other way, they aren't trying to rush anything. Apples and oranges. It's all coming together. Velocity is good, but nature has its own timing and that's something to consider. Timing of human history.

I see unawareness of privilege differentials in many people but can still learn from their work. I don't find it useful or necessary to attack them, certainly not to address it publicly, we all have more to grow.

Thanks for the presentation and lucid laying out of things, and for a platform in which I can add in my two cents. It's a beautiful thing.

One more thing -- the stepping up can take many different forms.

The willingness to sacrifice--one form of which is to face mean treatment in the public eye--can be applied in many directions. The error in thinking that the bathtub poster may have made can be addressed however. I can't know what she was thinking, this is only speculation for the sake of articulating possibilities. As I said above there are some other possible actions she might be taking, but the core of the thing is "if someone else is arguing that I am a killer then I am on the wrong track entirely." If that's the case, you wanna amend the thought to "let me not throw away the baby with the bathwater" (no pun intended), or "what other venues can I share my ideas in? what other ways can I go about pursuing my ends?" It's a spoons theory thing as far as how much a person can tolerate, or is willing to engage with, hostility.

Here's one example of an alternative way of sacrificing: let's say you're the quiet, book-reading permie at home in your permaculture paradise. You stockpile your innovative ideas for years, share them only with a few close-mouthed friends, and study others' plans. Your neighbors, who've criticized you for years, come knocking on the door one day. 'There are no eggs on the shelves at the grocery store." This is your teachable moment. They're ready to listen. What you've sacrificed is having a public-ish forum for developing your ideas and the spoons that go with that; what you've saved yourself from is the anti-spoons that could come along. But you've won a bigger war for losing that battle.

I still think the ideal would be if the poster kept posting too, probably, but I could be wrong about that. But in addition they can pursue multiple tracks.

Small is beautiful, and too large is unwieldy. When the empire is too large, it can only collapse. We don't all have to move forward in lock step. We can all move forward in different rhythms and eddies.

I spotted this today:



I think that this is a good metric for improving overall permaculture velocity.   We have too many people in permaculture that appear to wish to discourage those that are trying to do good works.  I think there are two critical steps:


   - encourage effort

   - discourage discouragement

The following post contains MY opinion.  You're certainly free to disagree.  Again, this is my own opinion.  The "I think"...

paul wheaton wrote:The problem:   why is permaculture not currently a household word?  Something that most people have heard of?  Something that most people have, at least, some vague understanding of what it means?

One reason is the perception that people who practice permaculture are on the left-wing fringe.  It's true for some, not for others.  This is US-centric, but we are a nation roughly 1/3 left of center, 1/3 right of center, 1/3 in the center politically.   However, many of those not in the dominant third have their voices shut down or heavily moderated.  Yes, absolutely this is your forum and you can run it as you see fit.  It's the best-organized permaculture forum on the web, and could be so much more.

The BBs are a brilliant idea. Just absolutely brilliant.  Even if I was a billionaire, I would never rise to, say, Joseph Lofthouse's gardening level.  There's not enough time in my life to acquire his skills.  That doesn't mean I can't learn ones that are more specific and useful to me. It's eating the elephant, though.  If I'm a newbie looking at his farm as an example (and not picking on him; he's incredible and at such a level that's out of this world great), I would never, ever start.  The BBs have been the kick in the rear end I need to get really moving.  Want to see permaculture a household word?  Show people how it benefits them, and how they can actually do it.  Not "save the world," but "live a better life!"  Rather than focus on a particular demographic, make it universal.  "Hey neighbor, if you learned just ten of the skills in Paul's PEP, your life could be better.  Take a look at this."

paul wrote: If it is true, it should be fought to the very end to end sexism in permaculture.  If it is not true, then the accusation should never be made - because the accusation itself is a destructive thing.  

Absolutely agree with you that the accusation is destructive and divisive.  There's nothing stopping them from making their own deck.  But how is permaculture tied to sexism, anyway?  Is the concept anti-disabilities because there aren't a representative number of people with disabilities?  Is is racist because the percentage of Asians doesn't match the general population?  Maybe it's classist, ageist, feminist, etc.  No.  The concept of permaculture does not inherently discriminate against anyone.  That it's spread mainly in a homogenous core group does not mean that others are excluded.  I've noticed that most posters clearly have a higher-than-average IQ.  That does not mean that permies, in particular, is discriminatory against average- (or lower-) intelligence people.  It just means that we spread the word about exciting things in our lives with the people in our lives.

Paul wrote:I am on the road, presenting.   At a dinner with eight people, including the two female regional leaders.  They will not attend voices due to the lack of women.

Their loss.  You're not excluding them; they're excluding themselves.

Paul wrote:Some regional permaculture leaders strictly believe that it is not permaculture unless you pray the way they pray, vote the way they vote and live the way they live.

I think this attitude is rampant -- sad to say, even here (in my opinion). Permaculture must be a place where all points of view are welcome -- not agreed upon, but able to be heard.  Moderating a thread to squash those voices (and, no, I'm not talking about my apparently-not-appreciated sense of humor) rather than discuss them makes the community smaller and the whole concept more marginalized.  

Paul wrote: I propose the philosophy (which I have pushed for years) that "there are many schools of thought under the permaculture umbrella."  This allows the people who believe that permaculture includes something spiritual to continue on that path, and it allows people to practice permaculture without a spiritual path.  And since there are many schools of thought rather than ONE permaculture, then each can continue on their happy path without having to condemn the other.  

Yes!  Thank you, Paul.  You're exactly right.  Permaculture is not a political movement, a spiritual movement, or a social movement, though it can contain all or none of the above.  It's about taking care of yourself through taking care of the land.

Today, about four minutes of my day was taken by somebody who was upset by others in the permaculture movement.  I thought "good, I'm glad I'm not the only one talking about this."

And then everything got really twisted.  I shut it off only three minutes in.  I wanna address each point, but most of it is stuff I said in this presentation.  

Instead ....    rather than point out the yuck and then unravel it, I am going to instead just state some direct opinions of my own:

  - I hope that all the bits and bobs of permaculture get adopted by billions of people whether they call it "permaculture" or not

  - I encourage many schools of thought under the permaculture umbrella

  - I suspect that there is no PDC that ever turned a profit.  Every PDC is a labor of love.

  - To the people that demand free PDCs, I encourage them to offer one.

  - I encourage people to make money with permaculture stuff.  Or do it for free.  Whatever works for you.


Overall:  I wish to encourage everybody to


    build good things instead of being angry at bad guys


Let's all be supportive of the builders.