electric fence shifting hacks for mesh fence--for beginners

This is from one year of experience with 2 evil hogs.  I don't knwo much, but I wish I'd at least known this much before...so I'm sharing this for beginners.


--it's too much to fit in one hand.  one farmer suggested cutting the fence in two, but I was too lazy to do that, and realized i could hold them all _under my arm_, not in my hand.
--keep them all in order; it's a pain in the butt if they get mixed up. The last one up, the first one down, etc.  
--trying to stretch it all out on the ground and then raise it up usually doesn't work; going one at a time is better.  When stretched out the sharp point is likely to catch and then they twist...and somehow they magically get SOOOO twisted around like 5 times, I swear they dont' obey the $&%&($*%*& laws of physics


DON'T USE SOLAR CHARGERS with anything larger than a duck, maybe a chicken...pigs will escape.  and laugh at you.  and laugh at the neighbors and the highway dept.  then they'll come here and post on permies nah nah nah before you even notice they're gone.  plug-in or forget it.  for cows, maybe it's ok, I don't know have experience, for sheep (walking insulators) you'd think they'd be well behaved, but you'd be wrong, my neighbor tells me from experience.

--getting the wire from the charger to the paddock: putting some posts in between works OK.  i do that after I've moved the paddock.

--make peace with the fact that your'e shocking your pigs.   You know what? if the roles were reversed, they'd be doing the same to you.  In fact, they have a better life in pig jail than in the wild in many ways.  It's a compromise.  Always remember, "Is it better than the supermarket?"  Like what Krishna tells the prince about the enemy in the Bhagavad Gita, Consider them already dead.    Consider them already mildly shocked.  It's not at all the same as _electrocuting_ them or torturing them with the shock, it's just a mosquito bite to them.  Annoying but you suffer the same dozens of times a season.  If you save a garden or a hugelkultur mound from the pigs, and serve a larger goal of responsible stewardship of the earth and resources, you've done more good than harm.

Also, they're bastards, don't let the cute faces fool you.

--in winter in cold climate, the ground freeze will be too hard to penetrate, and if you want to do winter stockpiling and continue to shift paddocks sometimes you'll need a huge nail and a hammer.  Not worth trying it with the plastic stakes.

--I can use any kind of fencing for our pigs.  the pig fencing or the poultry, it works the same either way.  
--but the dog was getting the birds if they got out of their fence (the pig fence with its big holes), so I needed to use the poultry net with the ducks and the hog fencing with the hogs.  _But if i had it to do over I'd just get all poultry fencing for everybody_.  it get tangles less easily, the rods are thinner and easier to gather together, I can carry the whole length of it around easier than the hog fencing.  Not fully sure why, it just doesn't give me nearly the same problems.

--the whole "put a strand of electric around the pigs" thing seems to have been changed to this hog mesh stuff in terms of what is sold at the farm store, maybe that's actually harder than what I've been using but it does save you having to do 2 strands because the pigs dig under and then 3 because they somehow mounded up dirt against the first two strands...I don't have experience with using plain strands but it seems like it's a little easier.

It's sad to use so much polyester/plastic, but it's a) not in contact with food b) not in contact with water c) not in contact with food or water in direct sunlight d) not containing something being fermented, so it's a lesser of many evils.  

Such as the evil pigs.

Joshua, Thank you for posting  your experiences in order to help newcomers make informed decisions.

Thanks for the information.  Appreciate the well laid out list.   Is there a specific brand or type of fencing that you are using?  

good question, the charger is American Farmworks.

VERY IMPORTANT--don't put yoiur hand over the light that is too dim to see and make a shadow so you can see it-- which is the thing anyone would think to do--really bad visual cuing here!!  I got a terrible shock this way.  Hope I got shocked so you don't have to!!!  Other than that, it works fine.  Enough joules--6.7--and apparentlyu joules are the only thing that really matters, way more than voltage.

The mesh brand I forget, it was whatever they had at the farmers coop store.  if i can find the receipt I'll post it here.  It was not step-in posts, just tap in, standard black-and-white colors, etc.  

Also a length of uninsulated wire, an insulated grounding wire, and three ground posts with clamps (see my other thread about Everything You Ever Wanted to Know About Electric Fencing But Were Afraid to Ask). I don't know the brands of these, can't complain or rave.

! Another hack--mulch over your grounding posts and water them every week or two.  The ground moisture really affects conductivity, which affects whether the hogs get a mosquito bite or a midge nip, and we had so much drought here.  Wood chip mulch really saved the day.

I'm thinking of doing a phone conversation or videoconferencing if folks want to ask me more questions I didn't think of here, I might remember more details of things that were pain points or factors to be considered if you get me talking.  Let me know if you want to do that and I'll set up a time this winter.

I admit I find electric mesh fencing a pain - particularly if having to set it up on my own.

I fastened 3 buckets together to make a wide core and rolled the fencing up around it. Then I stuck it on a salvaged golf cart. While I was getting it put together, Hubby bought a whole pile of Dog Exercise Pens:
1.  4 of those does a good enough job of a decent run for my ducks and chickens moved every 3 days.
2. broken into their sections of 8 panels, they're light enough for me to move easily short distances with one under each arm.
3. My chickens *can* get over them, but they prefer not to unless there's some problem, in which case the Rooster comes to a Human as if to say, "we need help"!
4. Unfortunately, the Ravens aren't deterred so I had to make up some netting for the top and that's a pain to move.

Hubby was very negative about me cutting our Chicken net fencing in half - I think it would get used if I only had to deal with half of it. Chickens want to move every day, or every 2 days, or ABSOLUTELY by the third day (the rooster told me so), so I'm actually better to have a smaller area moved more often, than a bigger area moved rarely.

There are places for electric fence of various types, but as a small homestead option with only one person trying to deal with it, it's got plenty of downsides. In a perfect world, I'd like a central secure house and a bunch of interconnected runs (14 or so) that they can cycle through just by me opening and closing pop-doors. Big up-front expense, but when I look at how long it takes me to move the portable stuff, it would be totally worth it.

The dog fencing is brilliant.  You're saying it's like plastic hog panels, right? lightweight and semi-rigid?  If I didn't already have all this netting I'd switch to that, but it does help to have the fence electrified to keep the birds from exploring outside the fence and then getting vaccuumed up by the dog.  (He's a little rough on them as soon as they're on the wrong side of the fence, though he's great about respecting fences even if they're really really saggy.  #ArmenianGampr)

 Can you post a picture of the other thing, I'm having a hard time understanding the golf cart and drum contraption.  Thanks!

Jay Angler wrote:I admit I find electric mesh fencing a pain - particularly if having to set it up on my own.

I fastened 3 buckets together to make a wide core and rolled the fencing up around it. Then I stuck it on a salvaged golf cart. While I was getting it put together, Hubby bought a whole pile of Dog Exercise Pens:
1.  4 of those does a good enough job of a decent run for my ducks and chickens moved every 3 days.
2. broken into their sections of 8 panels, they're light enough for me to move easily short distances with one under each arm.
3. My chickens *can* get over them, but they prefer not to unless there's some problem, in which case the Rooster comes to a Human as if to say, "we need help"!
4. Unfortunately, the Ravens aren't deterred so I had to make up some netting for the top and that's a pain to move.

Hubby was very negative about me cutting our Chicken net fencing in half - I think it would get used if I only had to deal with half of it. Chickens want to move every day, or every 2 days, or ABSOLUTELY by the third day (the rooster told me so), so I'm actually better to have a smaller area moved more often, than a bigger area moved rarely.

There are places for electric fence of various types, but as a small homestead option with only one person trying to deal with it, it's got plenty of downsides. In a perfect world, I'd like a central secure house and a bunch of interconnected runs (14 or so) that they can cycle through just by me opening and closing pop-doors. Big up-front expense, but when I look at how long it takes me to move the portable stuff, it would be totally worth it.

Joshua Myrvaagnes wrote:The dog fencing is brilliant.  You're saying it's like plastic hog panels, right? lightweight and semi-rigid?

It's a metal fencing that is 8 x2 ft wide panels attached together. You can clip the 8 panels into a ring. They come in different heights for different sized dogs, but the really tall ones aren't as stable and are heavy. I think the height we use is 3 ft tall. However, instead of joining a single set of panels into a ring, you can join another whole set to it. My combo group of 6 ducks and 5 chickens have 4 sets joined into a zig-zag rectangle where they spend most of the day. A second group of ducks is in a movable 10x12 shelter, but they make such a mess with their water, I set up two sets in a half circle at one end of the shelter for day use to keep more of the water outside!

These are *not* coon-proof, but for day use, they're fine. The group in the 10x12 shelter are easy to just shoo in at night, and there is electric fence on the outside of the shelter that we turn on at night.

The other group "runs" from their secure overnight shelter, to where I've set up the run for the day, and runs home at night. So long as I don't move the run by much (usually just one square in what ever direction they're traveling), they're amazingly good at finding the opening I leave in the panels and close after they're in.  

I don't have a picture of the electric fence on the cart, but I'll try to remember to take a picture of it in the morning  when it's light.

Thanks.

Well, I should update that moving the pig paddock today was about as frustrating as ever--plus the pigs decided to go on walkabout while it was open.

next tip--time the paddock shift to right after the pigs have their distraction in their bowl and are eating.  don't do another chore first.  Plan to do the paddock shift first thing in the morning (just after daybreak and just before pigbreak, which is the time of day instants after daybreak when your pigs decide to break out).  

The arm method is kind of bugging me and I couldn't really get them to stay in order, it worked better with the poultry netting (once again) and the darn pig fencing is really determined to tangle.  It defies the laws of physics and Euclidian geometry.  Sort of like the pigs do too...hm...How does it manage to get twisted over 5 times, and yet whichever way you untwist it only makes it worse?

Biggest pro tip: have your partner/friend/neighbor/enemy help you, it's 900000000x easier wiht another person to hold the other end of the thing.  Like 15" of work instead of an hour and a half.

Of course, they also need to be free, available and awake before pigbreak.

Joshua Myrvaagnes wrote:next tip--time the paddock shift to right after the pigs have their distraction in their bowl and are eating.  don't do another chore first.  Plan to do the paddock shift first thing in the morning (just after daybreak and just before pigbreak, which is the time of day instants after daybreak when your pigs decide to break out).  

Exactly! Or better yet, find/make some sort of sturdy portable fencing that can be placed at the edge of the electric fencing, that the pigs can be herded/bribed into, and contained there while you move the electric fencing. Even better, use some sort of a trailer so you can move the trailer with the pigs inside, onto the new patch of land you intend to enclose with the electric fence.

And wrote:

Biggest pro tip: have your partner/friend/neighbor/enemy help you, it's 900000000x easier with another person to hold the other end of the thing.  Like 15" of work instead of an hour and a half.

Absolutely! Most of the people who speak highly of using electric fence as a regular paddock-shift system, have 3 or more people working for them and they all have a place in the process and work as a well-oiled machine. I've seen this in videos of both Geoff Lawton's farm and Joel Salatin's farm.

I needed to move my Noisy Duck run this morning so I took some pictures.
This first picture shows how much I have to zigzag the fencing to ensure that it stays upright on our uneven ground. I always keep a couple of buckets near incase I need to use one as a support, but they also can be used to help mark the opening in the fence.


The next picture is an action shot of the ducks and chickens running for their day paddock. They *love* going out for the day, but are equally happy to go home to their secure bedtime location when dusk comes. We've got way too many aerial predators for birds this size to free-range. We loose some Muscovy every year, but not many, but they're bigger and tougher than Khaki Campbell ducks and they know to run to the geese if they see trouble.


The white mini-hoop shelter is normally used for brooding moms with ducklings and goslings. However, we've had some very crappy weather and the Chickens that hang with the ducks needed some shelter during the winter and it allows me to put some feed out for them. It is supper easy to just slide along the ground using the rope you can see hanging beside the pop-door if you look carefully. There's a rope on the other end also. Normally it's only moving a square or two, and that's easy for me. If for some reason it needs to go a long way, we use our trailer and lawn tractor to do the job. The picture was taken before I closed the fencing and used dog leash clips to lock it shut for the day.


So this run uses 4 sets of the dog X-pen joined into a rough rectangle. Moving the whole works takes a bit over 1/2 an hour minimum - more if it needs to go further or if the slope is giving me grief.  The Rubbermaid tote has a hole in one side and mulch in the bottom for the chickens to use as a nest box. The Khakis rarely lay in the run, and these ducks aren't currently laying at all due to the low light levels.

I forgot to take a picture of the Electric fence cart before the rain started - I will try to do so later...

Thanks.

A few more things I meant to add:

--grab the fenceposts by the points (if you are using your hand vs. arm), the points are small enough to be hold-able.  although, again, the pig fencing just gets out of order no matter what I do
--I don't have a trailer but I do have a cart; trying to move the fencing with the cart just proved more frustrating than not, and it got tangled up in the axels of the cart, and then I had to pry it out of there...
--having more people, which means dealing with human nature, the most complex problem ever encountered by humankind, is still less of a challenge than moving this $*%&U$#(^ electric fencing
--I thought about having the ducks in with the hogs, and that worked great--until it was time to bring the ducks into the barn at night (it's earth-bermed and warm for the winter).  Well, the pigs decided it was time for them to come out too.  And they were already full.  I realize as I write this I could withhold a bit of their feed and create a diversion while I loose the fowl.  Maybe I'll try this one again next time--that would be a major step forward! only having to move ONE paddock instead of two!!!  (Of course, the ducks might try to go for the hog feed--but they usually respond to the rattling bucket even if they already have feed, whichever stimulus came last gets first priority in their queue.  Meanwhile the hogs tend to stay focused on one thing at a time and keep eating while they have a good thing going, even if Rudolf is nipping at them.)

!!!

Thanks, good talk.

I got a picture for you.
1. I *think* I used 3 buckets bolted together for the core - go by the height of the fencing including the spikes.
2. The cart is too wimpy.  It isn't stable with the fencing on it. I would have thought that golf clubs would be heavy, so I think the issue is the height and shape of the load.
3. It *is* easier to roll the fencing up with the buckets as a core, but I haven't used it enough to know for sure if the "tangling" issue is solved.



Joshua wrote:

--I don't have a trailer but I do have a cart; trying to move the fencing with the cart just proved more frustrating than not, and it got tangled up in the axels of the cart, and then I had to pry it out of there...

Absolutely! I think I'd intended to put the bucket tower of fencing on the ground and unroll from the buckets as I put the posts in. To be honest, I think I would need a vertical axis version on a large enough base and the wheels underneath the base to keep them away from the expletive's deleted fencing.

And wrote:

Of course, the ducks might try to go for the hog feed--but they usually respond to the rattling bucket even if they already have feed

It really sounds like you need some sort of simple way to make a chute for the fencing - maybe put one end and the other end parallel for a section about 3 feet apart? You might have to attach an extra pair of fence posts to make it work, but the basic idea is to make a collection area with a "gate" at each end (which could be as simple as a piece of the net fencing) that allows you to entice the ducks (who tend to be groupies and stick together) into the chute and close the gate behind them, before opening the outer gate to lead them to the barn. If a pig gets in the way, it gives you time to redirect him before you're chasing them all over your land? I've not dealt with pigs, so I don't know how it would work in real life.


ETA - I would keep trying to put the ducks and pigs together if it means you can get away with only one fence set-up. Ducks are bird-brains, but if you're meeting some sort of need, they can and do learn. Their run was out of site of their housing today and they ran right to it and I just followed along with my plastic hockey stick which I use to redirect them if needed - the bright green part at the bottom is at their level so it's very helpful for redirecting ducks and chickens. Stick handling practice duck version - a non-contact Canadian sport!

This is a hack, but you have to read down a ways, and I'm also gonna post it on "everything I didn't know about electric fencing".
----
Curveball.  We learned that electric fencing stops working when the ground freezes.  (Ice is less conductive than water.  Who knew? Why didn’t you teach me that in high school physics, something I could actually USE?). The tester was reading two volt-bunches (they are bunches of 950 v each, if you care) out of five, then it was reading one, then it wasn't reading anything at all.

I asked people what they did, and I learned that everyone who keeps pigs around here pretty much has the same solution—slaughter the pigs in the fall.  

That was looking like a better and better solution, especially when I looked into selling the pigs and a farmer wouldn't even tell me a price, just said you're gonna lose a lot of money, it would be much more worth your dollar just to slaughter them.  (He kindly offered us a spot in his slaughterhouse order, which was an amazing help, because the slaughterhouse here is booked until three weeks after the next two doomsdays.). But my partner and I decided to give Bonbon and Castle one more chance.  

So I web searched, and found some article from a fence company that talks about a “double hot wire” or “hot/ground” fence, two terms that are very confusing, but that seem to be talking about having two hot wires braided together in the poly, the + and - wires, and the pig’s nose completes the circuit.  No need for electric current to flow through the pig to the ground to the grounding wire.

Great, but they didn't sell anything called "double hotwire" or “hot/ground” fencing on their site, their helpline was automated and didn't give me any help, and there were no diagrams.  I wasn't even sure whether the wire we already have is a double hot wire or not.  They don't label things clearly.

So I called a friend, who is this an electrical engineer by training, and he gave me this brilliant suggestion, put chicken wire down on the ground in front of the fence and connect the ground wire to that, so when the pig walks toward the fence line, they're standing on the chicken wire and touching the fence with their nose.. Now the pig complete the circuit, ergo fried pig.  (I used to be so nice to my animals, how have I gotten so jaded in one year??  Oh yeah, because of all the 63 times that they've escaped and wrecked my stuff and menaced the motorists passing by on the state highway!)

I also asked for help from two other friends, one helped me to shore up the perimeter fence, and the other helped me actually implement this double hotwire idea.  B, it turns out, is also an electrical engineer by training and did the engineer thing that engineers do which is work in a very meticulous way and neatly and methodically.  I'm more of an artist, so not a good match to the situation.  Plus trying to do this alone while my partner is overseas after a death in the family was just madness—trying ot keep the pigs from escaping by offering food bribes and madly stringing up wires around them on slippery icy ground with my fingers freezing off—I needed to ask for help.  Granted, it was not ideal that I had to have friends drive an hour and a quarter and use of a bunch of energy and gas, but I was desperate!  I’m so glad I got help.  

Friends, the pigs almost broke me this winter. I thought it was bad in summer, but now it turns out that it was just warming up to get even worse.  

Now the pigs fear the fence again, or respect it, and won't go outside it even if I try to let them out.  I’ll cross that bridge when I come to it.  I would like to let them out to play and run around more, but they do have some space to run inside their current paddock.  And frankly they deserve to be inconvenienced for a few days after what they did.

The other thing I was told and can confirm is that the plain wire works better than the poly mesh as far as actually shocking the pigs.  

And I discovered that the wire is much easier to set up than that stupid fencing. In fact, I don't think I'm ever going back. And I can make a much bigger paddock if I want, without having to buy any more material, since that wire can stretch long distances if you have even ground and keep it taut.  (I wrapped it around the regular posts from the poly fencing and twisted it off, I think it’s a half-hitch maybe? since the poly posts were already frozen into the ground in place.  I just took the poly mesh off.  I’d tried to put the metal wire on with the mesh still there but the mesh might move a little and contact it and then diffuse the current.)

There's still one unsolved mystery, why is the power out of the ground terminal of the energizer sooo much stronger than the power out of the fence terminal? In fact, the current is so strong it makes the lights on the tester flash white instead of red, and you can hear the spark.  Any ideas?  It’s basically a diode in the energizer, I think. (By the way, I switched the ground and fence terminals, since it should just be the same effect out of each of them, but the ground one was punchign so much harder.  And since I'm actually making a complete above ground circuit, assuming that the grounding rods aren't really doing much to pour the current into the ground, and this was done under the supervision of a trained electrical engineer, so there.)