Idle dreamer
Living in Piedmont NC, attempting restoration of four acres
Tyler Ludens wrote:In Mollisonian permaculture, the fully mature forest which needs preservation (Zone 5) is preserved for its ecosystemic functions, not for human use...
Joseph Bataille wrote:
Tyler Ludens wrote:In Mollisonian permaculture, the fully mature forest which needs preservation (Zone 5) is preserved for its ecosystemic functions, not for human use...
I get it, and I can agree in large part. The wilderness is kept wild and we take lessons from it as we tweak and develop our own systems. That's not a new lesson. However, human beings are not the only living organisms that modify their environment to suit their needs. We just need to learn to do so without destroying it.
On top of that, referring to my former point, some only see nature as valuable so long as it serves human utility. We may not agree, but we must recognize that we are far from convincing the world otherwise. In that case, is there a way to make wilderness (in this case, a forest) "more useful" without destroying it? Can we adapt to the environment while also adapting it to us?
What happens when man moves into the wilderness, whether by choice or by force (i.e. forced migration, population growth, etc)? What advice is given? We know what the status quo is and we don’t want that…
A build too cool to miss:Mike's GreenhouseA great example:Joseph's Garden
All the soil info you'll ever need:
Redhawk's excellent soil-building series
Trace Oswald wrote:I don't see a way around some amount of clearing.
Iterations are fine, we don't have to be perfect
Joseph Bataille wrote:What happens when man moves into the wilderness…
Kc Simmons wrote:One suggestion is to start at the edge and work inward. This will give you access to more sunlight and the other benefits commonly associated with edges in permaculture...
When working inside the forest, observation is key. Before clearing anything make note of the existing trees that would be useful as wind breaks, shade, biomass, etc. That way you don't clear them just to find out you really need them later on...
Finally, I would start small and selectively thin the FF area versus doing a clear cut. As soon as the ecosystem is disturbed, nature is going to send in the pioneers, which may include thorny and/or itchy stuff, to take over the spot & fill it back in. By working in small areas you can fill the spots with the desired edibles before the other stuff takes off. Otherwise you would probably just have to do the work of clearing it again if the pioneers have a chance to get established...
Of course it all will depend on the type/age of the forest, the climate, and other variables.
Tom Worley wrote:
Joseph Bataille wrote:What happens when man moves into the wilderness…
It's no longer wilderness. ... ...
Wildlands aren't just reserved for plants and animals, they're reserved for the future. When the generation time of food forests is decades or centuries, you're tying the hands of future generations. Deciding for them what is and isn't valuable. Decisions they can't un-make.
s. lowe wrote:The main thing to me is that you have two options, either start introducing plants you want that match the forests current stage OR create disruptions that set the forest back to the stage of succession you want for the trees plants you want to introduce
Joseph Bataille wrote:.... transition a fully mature forest into a fully mature food forest
Just let it grow already
Nick Neufeld wrote:Are the 2 un-forested acres suitable for you to accomplish your food growing goals?
Cole Tyler wrote:Make a happy little trail dotted with inoculated mushroom logs! That's very minimal disturbance.
一期一会
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ichi-go_ichi-e
Lew Johnson wrote:Maybe spend some time and see what is already growing over the course of the year. You might be surprised what your mature forest already provides.
Joseph Bataille wrote:We’ve been here since May.
一期一会
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ichi-go_ichi-e
Skandi Rogers wrote:Could you post some pictures of your forested areas? "mature" can mean so many different things...
Regards, Scott
Scott Stiller wrote:Hi Joseph. I have my sun chokes growing in nearly full shade. The are prolific. planting hops and grapes at the edge of the forest and using existing trees as trellises. also planted squash and pumpkins along the edges. They will run to the sun. The soil is very acidic in my forest. There is black cohosh, ferns, wild ginger, trillium and wintergreen all within a stones throw. I have grown shiitake mushrooms in the understory. Currently I have lions mane resting down there. I have ask this same question before only to get frustrated and go my own path. I never wanted to harm the existing forest but enhance it so I to could benefit as well.
Regards, Scott
Regards, Scott
Check out Redhawk's soil series: https://permies.com/wiki/redhawk-soil
John Suavecito wrote:I would suggest adding some native or near native trees, such as American persimmon, pawpaw, and beach plum. Then I would add chestnuts, possibly pecans, certainly apples, pie cherries, and pears.
Check out Redhawk's soil series: https://permies.com/wiki/redhawk-soil
Regards, Scott
Regards, Scott
Regards, Scott
Scott Stiller wrote:This is a good book you may want to check out.
Paula Wilkinson wrote:Right now there is a huge metal tractor barn at the back of our land which I think is useless, since we don't have a tractor, and it takes up valuable land!