Martin Seidel wrote:[color=blue]Question is, why do I still have smoke/flame back even after complete bypass of the baffles?
james beam wrote:Hey martin, & peter berg, how about this example that kirk mobert has posted a PIX of in this thread, as a simple fixture of cooling the feed tube, is this even close to what your suggesting peter?
Peter Berg wrote:
Martin Seidel wrote:Question is, why do I still have smoke/flame back even after complete bypass of the baffles?
Maybe, just maybe, you need to cool the feed. The theory is this: when the whole feed tube is insulated, it could be that the self-combustion temperature of the fuel is reached at some point in time. To tackle that problem, try to confine the insulation to the lower portion of the feed, the level of the burn tunnel. As another measure, place a piece of a smaller drum on top of the feed tube. This will dissipate heat into the room, keeping the content of the feed cooler. Also, by adding this the combustion air will come in from above almost exclusively. This will help as well to cool the feed more efficiently.
Peter Berg wrote:Yes that's the picture. Read this artcle about the neutral pressure plain and other relatively unknown phenomenons. Especially the part after the header "Is Your House a Better Chimney Than Your Chimney?" That might be the problem in your situation.
danny zeigler wrote:Are you saying that I have to build a vertical stack on the outside of the house up to the roof like with a wood stove?
james beam wrote:hey martin, what a nice surprise you have a chimney already! I can't think of any reason not to at least hook on to that thing, temporarily for testing if nothing else. Can you run your duct pipe near the 55g barrel, to pick-up some heat on the way to the chimney? Is the access to the chimney far away, or thru the floor? Is this the same chimney that is presently on your house furnace? I'd say 'go for it'.
Chris Burge wrote:Hmmm......
Okay, I read the 'house is a chimney' article and I'm with you on the draft thing with the NPP and the size of your house... but your 5.5x8.5 chimney CSA (46.75) is smaller than your feed (49), and especially with such a long run-- although I suppose your NPP draft at the basement tap is the strongest and may overcome this difference.
So here's a suggestion: What if, after you tap into your basement chimney and you get such an amazing draft increase that your barrel temps jump 100 degrees, you then turn your old basement wall exhaust into your new sub-NPP cold air intake-- but don't duct it to the feed box; that would mess with your burn temps.. and don't just duct it into the basement; that would cool off your basement too much-- instead, duct it to blow across the barrel to increase the delta in your difference engine and heat the air as it enters the basement... you could put in a damper to control the flow. This may give your system the boost it needs to overcome the extra work of getting all the way across the basement.
I mean, since ya got the dang hole in the wall already... wot da heck, ya know?
hey martin, did you know I'm not an engineer! but I can recognize a beer bubble when I see one, hahaha, so....some pixs or diagram of the basic basement & chimney location & RMH location might help. As for the chimney, is it a straight shot up?, or maybe cuz ya had multiple stoves, on various floors there are some turns in the chimney? I'm alittle curious why ya didn't go for the chimney in the first place, would it be easier for you to use in the long run, to simply rebuild your RMH in the room with the chimney? Even tho you have built a nice stove as it is now, I would definitely go for more draft that the chimney offers. The thing about an already built chimney there is noncombustible air chamber around the outside of the existing flue pipe, so you probably won't realize any mass warming from the chimney exterior itself...I may be wrong about this. Back in the old days they may have used fire brick up against the liner for the whole thing, and didn't need that air space, way back when, definitely would be good to know if it will warm up as usable mass. I'm thinking lets say your exh. temp. as it enters the bottom of your chimney, if it was 120 degrees & steamy, it must rise IF connected to a 30' vertical chimney. Yanno most of your clay joint cement and other parts, like your baffles should be reclaimable into a new setup.
james beam wrote:Hey Martin, Congratulations for the 'smog free' conversion of your old chimney/stove. Just think of the valuable environmental impact you're contributing, ~no petro fuel, ~very little wasted heat pollution, ~recycling scrap wood material, ~very little visible smoke pollution, ~no annoying fumes at ground level (your neighbors garage is now happy), ~enduring stove work (once you iron out all the kinks), ~high safety value in practice.
james beam wrote:Would you consider stuffing some new 7" or 6" duct pipe down the chimney from the top? The reason I want a duct pipe flue liner is because the old chimney is possibly 100 YEAR OLD MORTAR, ~if it can leak, it will leak~ (you have said it is seal tested or safe, but that chimney is really old, structurally sound is great, but still might eventually leak wet creosote fumes or steam). I would want a chimney liner secured with screws at each joint & sealed with foil. A chimney liner doesn't have to be installed immediately, while testing, but moisture + old brickwork + freezing outside temps = chimney liner. I'm not sure you can deform a 7" duct pipe into an oval shape, to fit within your existing chimney, I would prefer 7" over the 6"...if possible. You might try asking your local 'heating & air conditioning business' if they have, or can make, an affordable rectangular metal lining that would fit your chimney. Since ya got a dead bird in your cleanout tray, you could make a course screen for your rain cap. ~~Just a thought.
james beam wrote:Now that your temporarily plumbed into the chimney, do you eventually expect to bury your 30+ feet of duct pipe in mass, as you know the idea is to retain as much heat into the mass, and waste to the chimney what is left over. Do you eventually expect to move the stove into the other room, or perhaps you like the stove where it is under the 'new' part of the house, which I totally understand. I once had an old house with an addition, the addition was always the coldest part of that house. From your diagram, I would be very careful of the stone walls, they support the house, in many ways.
james beam wrote:As for heating water, I'm thinking 'double J, double barrel'...hehehe, that is because YOU are doing all the work, so well! :)
james beam wrote:Heyyyyyyyyyyy hows that peterchannel T you made working out? Can you confirm that with the peterchannel T, the fire doesn't burn vertical on your feed stock, or is it the proper draft of the chimney? Obviously your using the peterchannel T, so I'm guessing it is doing the trick! Now that you got your chimney working, how is your 'coals hole' working? With the peterchannel T in place, will you try rebuilding the insulation brick around the feed tube?, yanno just for kicks.
Peter Berg wrote:Martin,
I've come to understand you've got a p-channel in the feed. You mention in the vid the plate is hanging 1/4" into the tunnel. Have you thought about the 1/4" gap behind the plate as well? Thus the cooling of the first brick will be very much efficient and there's always some preheated air injected at that very important spot. The stove should be running cleaner with it, but it doesn't enhance the draft much.
clem nelson wrote: bypass vents?