Greg Martin wrote:
Trace Oswald wrote:I've been mulling this over for a couple days, and the more I think about it, the less I am convinced that the pipe will do anything, or is needed.
Trace, the idea, as I understand it, is that the light entering the greenhouse will heat the air in the upper portion of the greenhouse, but the air in the blackened pipe will heat much more than that and will rise into the upper portion of the greenhouse where it will get diluted back to the same temp it would have achieved if the pipe hadn't been there. But the rising hot air in the pipe will pull air up from the bottom of the 20' wells. This will, in turn, pull in air from the 5' air space in the walkway zone, which will, in turn pull down air from the greenhouse. So the pipe will passively turn the air over in the greenhouse. The big question is how efficiently. It would be very interesting to add some sort of air flow meter on the pipe or else somewhere in the flow path, though the end result can also be measured by with pipe/without pipe temperature measurement differences. They could also build multiple greenhouses :)
I had earlier suggested that the pipe end in a trombe wall, so that that thermal mass could extend this effect to both day and night. Having said that, it would also reduce the maximum temperature of the pipe, which would be expected to reduce the air flow rate during the day. Lots of good iterations that can be made to test what works best once they have this greenhouse up!
If they put more 20' wells in up front they can always cap some of them off to see what the return on investment is for what number of pipes, though that might not be an attractive proposition work wise up front....but it's all an investment in learning. Maybe that could be a stretch goal if they reach a certain level of fund raising?
A build too cool to miss:Mike's GreenhouseA great example:Joseph's Garden
All the soil info you'll ever need:
Redhawk's excellent soil-building series
So many plants, so little time
So many plants, so little time
lesley verbrugge wrote:Another question. We dont have a source of logs on our property but we do have loads of granite and sedimentary rocks plus we could buy cinder blocks. Is there any engineering reason why the berm retaining wall couldn't be constructed with these alternatives? Or for that matter earthbags?
Thanks
Lesley
A build too cool to miss:Mike's GreenhouseA great example:Joseph's Garden
All the soil info you'll ever need:
Redhawk's excellent soil-building series
lesley verbrugge wrote:Does anyone have any thoughts about combining a root cellar into the design. Somehow. Space is at a premium for us, and we'd like to combine the two if it's possible. Any of those clever engineering types out there with thoughts on this?
Regards
Lesley
"Hundreds of years from now it will not matter what my bank account was, the sort of house I lived in or the type of car I drove... But the world may be different because I did something so bafflingly crazy that it becomes a tourist destination"
"Hundreds of years from now it will not matter what my bank account was, the sort of house I lived in or the type of car I drove... But the world may be different because I did something so bafflingly crazy that it becomes a tourist destination"
Austin Shackles : email ans"at"ddol-las.net. Snail mail on request
Just fermenting and being fermented by life
Just fermenting and being fermented by life
Just fermenting and being fermented by life
"Hundreds of years from now it will not matter what my bank account was, the sort of house I lived in or the type of car I drove... But the world may be different because I did something so bafflingly crazy that it becomes a tourist destination"
Just fermenting and being fermented by life
Just fermenting and being fermented by life
Just fermenting and being fermented by life
"Hundreds of years from now it will not matter what my bank account was, the sort of house I lived in or the type of car I drove... But the world may be different because I did something so bafflingly crazy that it becomes a tourist destination"
Just fermenting and being fermented by life
"Hundreds of years from now it will not matter what my bank account was, the sort of house I lived in or the type of car I drove... But the world may be different because I did something so bafflingly crazy that it becomes a tourist destination"
Austin Shackles : email ans"at"ddol-las.net. Snail mail on request
Just fermenting and being fermented by life
"Hundreds of years from now it will not matter what my bank account was, the sort of house I lived in or the type of car I drove... But the world may be different because I did something so bafflingly crazy that it becomes a tourist destination"
Community Building 2.0: ask me about drL, the rotational-mob-grazing format for human interactions.
Anthony Dougherty wrote:
Here is my struggle, i am looking for a 100% self-sustainable build. which for me makes metals and plastics a no go. the biggest struggle has been trying to find an alternative water barrier.
Julie Reed wrote:
Anthony Dougherty wrote:
Here is my struggle, i am looking for a 100% self-sustainable build. which for me makes metals and plastics a no go. the biggest struggle has been trying to find an alternative water barrier.
I’m not sure there is anything in nature that is waterproof to make the envelope layer, except clay. And that might be a chore, to make a clay umbrella. But consider this- you really don’t need to keep the mass dry! Water holds heat better than anything, so a wet mass obviously holds much more heat (or ‘cool’). What you need to prevent is Migration. That means the wet needs to be the same ‘wet’ every day, not water that is moving through the mass (migration) robbing the heat. That may make your dilemma greater or less, I don’t know. It definitely gives you a major potential mold issue, depending on how the mass relates and connects to the dwelling. I say that because I sense you are talking about a home, not a greenhouse. But what you wouldn’t want is drainage, because that means water will enter your mass, have a quick fling with the heat there, and elope with it. The only way I can think that ‘might’ be acceptable is if you could somehow trap that water and return it to the mass. But in the process, some heat will be lost. Part of the answer also depends on your location, and just how much heat you need to store, and for how long. The other issue is insulation. Water conducts heat far better (and faster) than dry earth. So a wet mass needs better insulation on the exposed areas.
One last thought- you could, with enough slope to the mass, build a shake roof over it. That’s waterproof and natural.
Just fermenting and being fermented by life
Just fermenting and being fermented by life
Just fermenting and being fermented by life
Just fermenting and being fermented by life
Home: SW Colorado, 38N Latitude, 2100m elevation, Zone 5b/6a
Ask Me About: Keyline in Broadacre, Pasture restoration, Electric Vehicles, Solar, Computers/Networking/Automation
What if the "fog harp" was actually made of angled heat pipes stuck into the rear mass(?)
Just fermenting and being fermented by life
Home: SW Colorado, 38N Latitude, 2100m elevation, Zone 5b/6a
Ask Me About: Keyline in Broadacre, Pasture restoration, Electric Vehicles, Solar, Computers/Networking/Automation
Josiah Kobernik wrote:
What if the "fog harp" was actually made of angled heat pipes stuck into the rear mass(?)
David, I woke up thinking about heat pipes this morning. I was trying to figure out how heat pipes from the mass could cool the fog harp, but I think you nailed it by having the heat pipe itself be the condensing surface.
Anyone have design ideas for DIY heat pipes that are filled with non toxic material?
Earlier in the thread, Greg mentioned using water. Do you think that would suffice in this scenario?
Home: SW Colorado, 38N Latitude, 2100m elevation, Zone 5b/6a
Ask Me About: Keyline in Broadacre, Pasture restoration, Electric Vehicles, Solar, Computers/Networking/Automation
permaculture is a more symbiotic relationship with nature so I can be even lazier. Read tiny ad:
Food Forest Card Game - Game Forum
https://permies.com/t/61704/Food-Forest-Card-Game-Game
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