• Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
permaculture forums growies critters building homesteading energy monies kitchen purity ungarbage community wilderness fiber arts art permaculture artisans regional education skip experiences global resources cider press projects digital market permies.com private forums all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
master stewards:
  • Nicole Alderman
  • Anne Miller
  • r ranson
  • paul wheaton
  • Pearl Sutton
  • James Freyr
stewards:
  • Burra Maluca
  • Mike Haasl
  • Joylynn Hardesty
master gardeners:
  • Steve Thorn
  • Greg Martin
gardeners:
  • thomas rubino
  • Jay Angler
  • Tereza Okava

!! Ant Wofati Progression

 
pollinator
Posts: 301
Location: Central Texas (Georgetown)
172
tiny house wofati
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Davin Hoyt assists with the designs of Ant wofatis, and videos progress.
 
Davin Hoyt
pollinator
Posts: 301
Location: Central Texas (Georgetown)
172
tiny house wofati
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

edited by moderator to fix link
 
Davin Hoyt
pollinator
Posts: 301
Location: Central Texas (Georgetown)
172
tiny house wofati
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

edited by moderator to fix embed link
 
Davin Hoyt
pollinator
Posts: 301
Location: Central Texas (Georgetown)
172
tiny house wofati
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

edited by moderator to fix embed link
 
Davin Hoyt
pollinator
Posts: 301
Location: Central Texas (Georgetown)
172
tiny house wofati
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

edited by moderator to fix embed link
 
Davin Hoyt
pollinator
Posts: 301
Location: Central Texas (Georgetown)
172
tiny house wofati
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

edited by moderator to fix link
 
Davin Hoyt
pollinator
Posts: 301
Location: Central Texas (Georgetown)
172
tiny house wofati
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
 
Davin Hoyt
pollinator
Posts: 301
Location: Central Texas (Georgetown)
172
tiny house wofati
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
 
pollinator
Posts: 1432
Location: Victoria BC
189
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hey Davin, thanks for the videos. Man, Evan's flying along.


Watched 'movie_043583.mp4' (catchy name, by the way!). Left with some questions/comments.

I feel kinda like I'm only getting half of a conversation, or maybe I'm just missing something obvious... but, what is the purpose of the topmost hip roof? Is there some problem with existing structures/designs that it is addressing? Why do we need some many roofs over the same area? At first glance I assumed it was to allow windows underneath the overhang, but that's clearly not the case in this plan...

It does look like a pretty dark structure; if the wing wall areas are roofed over, a round door added to the outside, and then there is a wall with door between them and the main room... drastic reduction in light inside the main room, no? Could those main room/wingroom walls be made mostly transparent, to maximize light and apparent openness?

Does 'capping wall' imply anything specific in your videos?
 
Davin Hoyt
pollinator
Posts: 301
Location: Central Texas (Georgetown)
172
tiny house wofati
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Dillon Nichols wrote:Hey Davin, thanks for the videos. Man, Evan's flying along.


Watched 'movie_043583.mp4' (catchy name, by the way!). Left with some questions/comments.

I feel kinda like I'm only getting half of a conversation, or maybe I'm just missing something obvious... but, what is the purpose of the topmost hip roof? Is there some problem with existing structures/designs that it is addressing? Why do we need some many roofs over the same area? At first glance I assumed it was to allow windows underneath the overhang, but that's clearly not the case in this plan...

It does look like a pretty dark structure; if the wing wall areas are roofed over, a round door added to the outside, and then there is a wall with door between them and the main room... drastic reduction in light inside the main room, no? Could those main room/wingroom walls be made mostly transparent, to maximize light and apparent openness?

Does 'capping wall' imply anything specific in your videos?



'Capping wall' is what I call the wall that has insulation, and divides the interior space(s) from the exterior space(s). Paul's current designs have two each. Current wofatis, like Allerton Abbey and Wofati 0.8, have these walls at 'front' and 'back'. These walls are major components of the facades.

Continuing to talk about the current/existing wofatis, Wofati 0.8 has exposed wing walls (the wing walls are exposed to the weather in all directions). I propose that future wofati designs incorporate a roof structure for each pair of wing walls. Therefore, I propose a shed roof over each pair of wing walls in 'front' and 'back'. Furthermore, hip roof structure is added above, in center overlapping both shed roofs. A flat roof resides one moisture barrier below the hip roof. All roof structures hold dry sub soils to structure the wood and soil partnership.

Please note: My proposal involves a oval opening, but not a door fitting that profile.

I agree with the need for transparency in the 'capping walls'.
 
Davin Hoyt
pollinator
Posts: 301
Location: Central Texas (Georgetown)
172
tiny house wofati
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
 
Davin Hoyt
pollinator
Posts: 301
Location: Central Texas (Georgetown)
172
tiny house wofati
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
 
Posts: 23
Location: Spain
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hi Davin, thanks for your videos, they provide a great real-life perspective into what's going on at the Ant Village!

The only problem I had was hearing your interviewees outdoors. I don't know much about video making, but thought there should be a cheap way to record audio on another smartphone that stays with the person you're filming. And I found these little tutorials that you may find interesting for your future videos:
Use a Smartphone as a wireless mic
DIY microphone for under $20

Thanks again and keep the good work!
 
gardener
Posts: 3058
Location: Upstate NY, zone 5
143
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
It's good to see a design professional working on the wofati concept, bringing other ideas to bear that may not have occurred to the initial developers. I do have thoughts on some of these topics. In no particular order, the concept of turning the rectangular space to expose the corners and have interior angles maximizing contact with the thermal mass is sound. It potentially gives more interior volume with less weather exposure, while still letting light reach directly to every part of the interior. I don't understand the value of making two straight "tunnel" exits from each corner; you would get significantly more light yet not much more heat loss by letting light in from all angles at the corner.

The plan of covering the wing walls with roofs, and only a few oval openings, would turn the interior into a cave and for many people this would cause claustrophobia or at least much less comfort and enjoyability. The wofati is not supposed to be just a survival shelter but an attractive place to live. If it is not attractive in terms of internal comfort to average people, it will not see long use. I get the impression that Paul wants to get to a structure that is so close to invisible that there are no straight line openings to the exterior. This is fine, but keep livability in mind. The rough primitive interior look is not inherent to the concept of a wofati; one could be finished to look quite "civilized" on the inside without altering its principles.

Why does a wofati need any hip or shed roofs over its internal flat roof/ceiling? The mounded earth (kept dry for insulation/mass)if sloped correctly on top will do the same thing when covered with a waterproof membrane as a wooden roof structure would do, at much less cost.

Finally, it was painful to see a few ants discuss layout of their small structures and orienting windows every way but south. Proving the feasibility of a thermal flywheel concept is great, but if you plan to live in a structure, it only makes sense to build in multiple routes to warmth and comfort. Also, do not minimize the psychological importance of direct sunlight inside your dwelling in the cold winter months. I grew up in a house designed by my mother in the late 1950's which had south-facing windows and clerestories protected by overhangs, and the feeling of basking in the midwinter sunlight in the middle of the living room floor has stayed with me ever since.
 
Davin Hoyt
pollinator
Posts: 301
Location: Central Texas (Georgetown)
172
tiny house wofati
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Glenn Herbert wrote:It's good to see a design professional working on the wofati concept, bringing other ideas to bear that may not have occurred to the initial developers. I do have thoughts on some of these topics. In no particular order, the concept of turning the rectangular space to expose the corners and have interior angles maximizing contact with the thermal mass is sound. It potentially gives more interior volume with less weather exposure, while still letting light reach directly to every part of the interior. I don't understand the value of making two straight "tunnel" exits from each corner; you would get significantly more light yet not much more heat loss by letting light in from all angles at the corner.

The plan of covering the wing walls with roofs, and only a few oval openings, would turn the interior into a cave and for many people this would cause claustrophobia or at least much less comfort and enjoyability. The wofati is not supposed to be just a survival shelter but an attractive place to live. If it is not attractive in terms of internal comfort to average people, it will not see long use. I get the impression that Paul wants to get to a structure that is so close to invisible that there are no straight line openings to the exterior. This is fine, but keep livability in mind. The rough primitive interior look is not inherent to the concept of a wofati; one could be finished to look quite "civilized" on the inside without altering its principles.

Why does a wofati need any hip or shed roofs over its internal flat roof/ceiling? The mounded earth (kept dry for insulation/mass)if sloped correctly on top will do the same thing when covered with a waterproof membrane as a wooden roof structure would do, at much less cost.

Finally, it was painful to see a few ants discuss layout of their small structures and orienting windows every way but south. Proving the feasibility of a thermal flywheel concept is great, but if you plan to live in a structure, it only makes sense to build in multiple routes to warmth and comfort. Also, do not minimize the psychological importance of direct sunlight inside your dwelling in the cold winter months. I grew up in a house designed by my mother in the late 1950's which had south-facing windows and clerestories protected by overhangs, and the feeling of basking in the midwinter sunlight in the middle of the living room floor has stayed with me ever since.



My goal is to achieve a Wofati 1.0 plan/model.

LIGHT: The amount of natural lighting may suffer in the early designs. I agree with the need for natural lighting, but I believe a shallow porch and patio may allow quality task light. (Thanks for adding your childhood memory of basking in the sun. It is always wonderful to hear of such lasting architectural experiences.) I may lack a true understanding of human needs for winter sun light. I am not at Wheaton Labs right now and I have never spent a winter above the 32nd degree of latitude. (I basked in the sun on my town square yesterday at 30 degrees latitude.)

OPEN CORNER DESIGN: I was thinking the light would be more plentiful throughout the day depending to the site and orientation. (Light reaching the interior, as well as reaching the porch/patios.) The desired thermal inertia of the interior would not be effected by these double tunnels on opposing corners.

ROOF SLOPE: A design MUST is the hobbit-like round header of an entrance. Another design MUST is making the construction "Amateur Friendly". Thus, as I applied the layers up from the finished floor (F.F.=0'-0") in a 3D model, I found that - had I used a flat roof with sloping soil masses overhead, the construction would (1.) require a more in-depth structural analysis, (2.) expend more wood members, (3.) limit interior ceiling height(s), and (4.) require more experienced builders. (That design, once made, would be less forgiving.) Instead, the 3D model I have made as of now has three shed roofs. I believe the design is a simple concept capable by many.

Please tell me what you think about the design posts that follow.
THANK YOU!





 
Davin Hoyt
pollinator
Posts: 301
Location: Central Texas (Georgetown)
172
tiny house wofati
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
 
Davin Hoyt
pollinator
Posts: 301
Location: Central Texas (Georgetown)
172
tiny house wofati
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Perspective views...
PERSPECTIVE01.jpg
[Thumbnail for PERSPECTIVE01.jpg]
PERSPECTIVE02.jpg
[Thumbnail for PERSPECTIVE02.jpg]
PERSPECTIVE03.jpg
[Thumbnail for PERSPECTIVE03.jpg]
 
Davin Hoyt
pollinator
Posts: 301
Location: Central Texas (Georgetown)
172
tiny house wofati
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
...
PERSPECTIVE04.jpg
[Thumbnail for PERSPECTIVE04.jpg]
PERSPECTIVE05.jpg
[Thumbnail for PERSPECTIVE05.jpg]
PERSPECTIVE06.jpg
[Thumbnail for PERSPECTIVE06.jpg]
 
Davin Hoyt
pollinator
Posts: 301
Location: Central Texas (Georgetown)
172
tiny house wofati
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
...
PERSPECTIVE07.jpg
[Thumbnail for PERSPECTIVE07.jpg]
PERSPECTIVE08.jpg
[Thumbnail for PERSPECTIVE08.jpg]
PERSPECTIVE09.jpg
[Thumbnail for PERSPECTIVE09.jpg]
 
Davin Hoyt
pollinator
Posts: 301
Location: Central Texas (Georgetown)
172
tiny house wofati
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
...
PERSPECTIVE10.jpg
[Thumbnail for PERSPECTIVE10.jpg]
 
Davin Hoyt
pollinator
Posts: 301
Location: Central Texas (Georgetown)
172
tiny house wofati
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Section views...
SECTION01.jpg
[Thumbnail for SECTION01.jpg]
SECTION02.jpg
[Thumbnail for SECTION02.jpg]
SECTION03.jpg
[Thumbnail for SECTION03.jpg]
 
Davin Hoyt
pollinator
Posts: 301
Location: Central Texas (Georgetown)
172
tiny house wofati
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
...
SECTION04.jpg
[Thumbnail for SECTION04.jpg]
SECTION05.jpg
[Thumbnail for SECTION05.jpg]
SECTION06.jpg
[Thumbnail for SECTION06.jpg]
 
Davin Hoyt
pollinator
Posts: 301
Location: Central Texas (Georgetown)
172
tiny house wofati
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
...
SECTION07.jpg
[Thumbnail for SECTION07.jpg]
SECTION08.jpg
[Thumbnail for SECTION08.jpg]
SECTION09.jpg
[Thumbnail for SECTION09.jpg]
 
Davin Hoyt
pollinator
Posts: 301
Location: Central Texas (Georgetown)
172
tiny house wofati
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
...
SECTION10.jpg
[Thumbnail for SECTION10.jpg]
SECTION11.jpg
[Thumbnail for SECTION11.jpg]
 
Davin Hoyt
pollinator
Posts: 301
Location: Central Texas (Georgetown)
172
tiny house wofati
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Sequence views...
SEQUENCE01.jpg
WOFATI - Final view first
WOFATI - Final view first
SEQUENCE02.jpg
WOFATI - Flat footprint
WOFATI - Flat footprint
SEQUENCE03.jpg
WOFATI - Foundation soil levels
WOFATI - Foundation soil levels
 
Davin Hoyt
pollinator
Posts: 301
Location: Central Texas (Georgetown)
172
tiny house wofati
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
...
SEQUENCE04.jpg
WOFATI - porch and patio lower moisture membrane
WOFATI - porch and patio lower moisture membrane
SEQUENCE05.jpg
WOFATI - porch and patio duff layer
WOFATI - porch and patio duff layer
SEQUENCE06.jpg
WOFATI - porch and patio upper upper moisture membrane
WOFATI - porch and patio upper upper moisture membrane
 
Davin Hoyt
pollinator
Posts: 301
Location: Central Texas (Georgetown)
172
tiny house wofati
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
...
SEQUENCE07.jpg
WOFATI - capping wall base moisture membrane
WOFATI - capping wall base moisture membrane
SEQUENCE08.jpg
WOFATI - main structure post holes
WOFATI - main structure post holes
SEQUENCE09.jpg
WOFATI - porch and patio post holes
WOFATI - porch and patio post holes
 
Davin Hoyt
pollinator
Posts: 301
Location: Central Texas (Georgetown)
172
tiny house wofati
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
...
SEQUENCE10.jpg
WOFATI - capping wall base
WOFATI - capping wall base
SEQUENCE11.jpg
WOFATI - main structure posts
WOFATI - main structure posts
SEQUENCE12.jpg
WOFATI - porch and patio posts
WOFATI - porch and patio posts
 
Davin Hoyt
pollinator
Posts: 301
Location: Central Texas (Georgetown)
172
tiny house wofati
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
...
SEQUENCE13.jpg
WOFATI - patio retaining wall
WOFATI - patio retaining wall
SEQUENCE14.jpg
WOFATI - patio retaining wall moisture membrane
WOFATI - patio retaining wall moisture membrane
SEQUENCE15.jpg
WOFATI - main structure beam
WOFATI - main structure beam
 
Davin Hoyt
pollinator
Posts: 301
Location: Central Texas (Georgetown)
172
tiny house wofati
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
...
SEQUENCE16.jpg
WOFATI - porch and patio girders
WOFATI - porch and patio girders
SEQUENCE17.jpg
WOFATI - main structure girders
WOFATI - main structure girders
SEQUENCE18.jpg
WOFATI - patio stairs
WOFATI - patio stairs
 
Davin Hoyt
pollinator
Posts: 301
Location: Central Texas (Georgetown)
172
tiny house wofati
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
...
SEQUENCE19.jpg
WOFATI - main structure retaining walls (includes wing walls)
WOFATI - main structure retaining walls (includes wing walls)
SEQUENCE20.jpg
WOFATI - porch and patio shed roofs
WOFATI - porch and patio shed roofs
 
Davin Hoyt
pollinator
Posts: 301
Location: Central Texas (Georgetown)
172
tiny house wofati
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
...
SEQUENCE21.jpg
WOFATI - plank volume added for appropriate run off
WOFATI - plank volume added for appropriate run off
SEQUENCE22.jpg
WOFATI - fascia framing of hobbit-like opening
WOFATI - fascia framing of hobbit-like opening
SEQUENCE23.jpg
WOFATI - main structure shed roof planks
WOFATI - main structure shed roof planks
 
Davin Hoyt
pollinator
Posts: 301
Location: Central Texas (Georgetown)
172
tiny house wofati
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
...
SEQUENCE24.jpg
WOFATI - moisture membrane on main retaining walls
WOFATI - moisture membrane on main retaining walls
SEQUENCE25.jpg
WOFATI - moisture membrane on porch and patio shed roofs
WOFATI - moisture membrane on porch and patio shed roofs
SEQUENCE26.jpg
WOFATI - exterior fascia of hobbit-like opening
WOFATI - exterior fascia of hobbit-like opening
 
Davin Hoyt
pollinator
Posts: 301
Location: Central Texas (Georgetown)
172
tiny house wofati
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
...
SEQUENCE27.jpg
WOFATI - main shed roof moisture membrane
WOFATI - main shed roof moisture membrane
SEQUENCE28.jpg
WOFATI - retaining wall duff layer (at wing walls only)
WOFATI - retaining wall duff layer (at wing walls only)
SEQUENCE29.jpg
WOFATI - soil to conduct thermal inertia
WOFATI - soil to conduct thermal inertia
 
Davin Hoyt
pollinator
Posts: 301
Location: Central Texas (Georgetown)
172
tiny house wofati
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
...
SEQUENCE30.jpg
WOFATI - duff layer of umbrella
WOFATI - duff layer of umbrella
SEQUENCE31.jpg
WOFATI - moisture membrane upon duff umbrella
WOFATI - moisture membrane upon duff umbrella
SEQUENCE32.jpg
WOFATI - soil to volumize and create continuous slopes away from structure
WOFATI - soil to volumize and create continuous slopes away from structure
 
Davin Hoyt
pollinator
Posts: 301
Location: Central Texas (Georgetown)
172
tiny house wofati
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
...
SEQUENCE33.jpg
WOFATI - moisture membrane to complete umbrella and obtain water shed goal (away from structure)
WOFATI - moisture membrane to complete umbrella and obtain water shed goal (away from structure)
SEQUENCE34.jpg
WOFATI - top soil place upon umbrella for shallow rooting growies
WOFATI - top soil place upon umbrella for shallow rooting growies
SEQUENCE35a.jpg
[Thumbnail for SEQUENCE35a.jpg]
 
Davin Hoyt
pollinator
Posts: 301
Location: Central Texas (Georgetown)
172
tiny house wofati
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
...
SEQUENCE35b.jpg
[Thumbnail for SEQUENCE35b.jpg]
SEQUENCE35c.jpg
[Thumbnail for SEQUENCE35c.jpg]
SEQUENCE35d.jpg
[Thumbnail for SEQUENCE35d.jpg]
 
Davin Hoyt
pollinator
Posts: 301
Location: Central Texas (Georgetown)
172
tiny house wofati
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
...
SEQUENCE35e.jpg
[Thumbnail for SEQUENCE35e.jpg]
SEQUENCE35f.jpg
[Thumbnail for SEQUENCE35f.jpg]
 
Davin Hoyt
pollinator
Posts: 301
Location: Central Texas (Georgetown)
172
tiny house wofati
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
...
SEQUENCE36.jpg
WOFATI - composite wall structure and insulation
WOFATI - composite wall structure and insulation
SEQUENCE37.jpg
WOFATI - composite wall moisture membrane
WOFATI - composite wall moisture membrane
SEQUENCE38.jpg
WOFATI - composite wall glass components (doors not included in model)
WOFATI - composite wall glass components (doors not included in model)
 
I love a woman who dresses in stainless steel ... and carries tiny ads:
Devious Experiments for a Truly Passive Greenhouse!
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/paulwheaton/greenhouse-1
reply
    Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic