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male or female grape vine?

 
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This is a volunteer vine that I encouraged to grow.  It never had grapes, but a similar vine gave me grapes over 10 years ago, and hasn't given grapes since.

So I'm left wondering if this vine will eventually have grapes too.  I pruned in the winter leaving 2 buds on each branch coming from the main trunk (trunk is 8' tall, then goes over my arbor).  I also thinned these clusters down to 1 per branch.  (I just really want it to give me even 1 grape...Maybe I'll remove all clusters but 1, so it will force all energy to 1 cluster?!)

Maybe it is a male vine which will never have grapes?
Anyone know, or have ideas?
Thanks!
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pollinator
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I’m not an expert, but those look like grapes to me. Have you been watching them very closely? Some varieties ripen in the summer. Birds and all kinds of animals eat them. I have a Mars Seedless on my front porch. It’s been fruiting for 3-4 years. I have literally only eaten a couple grapes. One year there will be no trace of grapes. The next year something just eats the insides and leaves the skins, so I have at least two different grape thieves.
 
Chris rain
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Yes, I watch it. (It's at the entrance of my garden).
The clusters never get bigger than shown.  First, they look like the pic. Then they will turn into small white flowers.  Then...nothing.
 
Ken W Wilson
pollinator
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Can you get a better picture of a leaf? White blooms sounds like it might be Moonseed.

https://ask.extension.org/questions/340623
 
Chris rain
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Thanks for the link Ken.  Mine has tendrils, so it's probably grape.  I looked at grape flowers online and they look similar to mine too.

But is there a way to tell if it is a male vine?
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pollinator
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Standard grape vines are not male or female they are both . However wild muscadine grapes can be either or both so it could be you have a male of that. here is a picture of the flowers for comparison

 
Chris rain
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The fuzzy white flowers drop and the little green miniature clusters (same as pic shown in my hand), don't grow at all.  Last year I watered them every 2 or 3 days, so I don't think water is the problem.

Is the shade too much as shown?  It gets lots of sun on one part of the vine but mostly shade on another branch.

 
Chris rain
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I've looked at pics online to try to identify mine, but none with male or female labels look similar to mine.

I'll take a pic when they finally flower.
It is a wild grape.  Maybe Muscadine.
 
gardener
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You can graft grapes if you want, so if it were me I would probably just try grafting a table variety
 
Chris rain
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That's a great idea!  At first, I thought it might kill my vine, but I could probably do a side branch.

On the other hand, if I already have a female (fruit bearing) vine, maybe I'm doing something wrong that would prevent ANY grapes from coming to fruition!
 
Chris rain
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Ok, the grape buds finally flowered.  Here is the pic.

What's the verdict? Is this vine a male or female ?
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gardener
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It looks like it could be both male and female Chris. If you can get a closer shot, it might be easier to tell for sure.

The dark yellow parts appear to be the female part and the white parts the male.
 
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You might want to consider cluster thinning when they are blooming to get bigger grapes.  If the clusters are too close, then you'll only get tiny grapes.  This is from an extension article:

"Berry size compensation is of concern only when the berries are in phase I of development, during the first 3-4 weeks following fruit set. It is during this stage that cell division occurs in the berry, and removal of competing clusters may change the carbon partitioning to allow for greater berry size. This is not the case if thinning occurs in phase II (lag) or phase III (ripening) of berry development.

"This equates to 16-18 leaves to support a single grape cluster. Remember, this is a general metric and more leaf area may be required in cool climates."

16-18 leaves might be approx. 12" or so, depending on the variety.
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