Abraham Palma wrote:Please, not eucaliptus XD
I would try poplar, they grow big and fast. Maybe some cypresses.
About distances, it depends on the spacing you need for management and whether you are going to use machinery. Look how tall and wide your pruned trees would be (so they don't touch each ............ I would not go for such fixed spacing, maybe a fixed 10 meters between row Let's say you want to plant tree A which is 8 m wide next to tree B which is 6 m wide once they are grown ups. The spacing between them would be 4 + 1 + 3 = 8 meters. This way you can adapt if you change later your mind.
Abraham Palma wrote:
So why not eucalyptus???
It's cataloged as invasive species here in Europe. If you want perennial, go for cypresses. It's very common to build cypresses walls, they grow fast the first 20 meters.
Amedeo Nofal wrote:hello! I've been reading for too long, so i finally logged in and posted! glad to be here!
i'm Amedeo, 30yrs old, I left any job i ever had, felt them not good enough, with great will I moved in the abandoned land that my gone grandparents gifted me with.
I'm living in their ruins fixing the house, i've recently found a job in an orchard trees nursery since i have this desire of creating a paradise food forest to build harmony, beauty and aboundance for me and others, i'd like to start a business producing all sorts of vegetables, then fruit, eggs, nuts... then why not mushrums, wooden cabins and god knows what else (if i'll be strong, clever and perseverant enough)
My aim is to live a rich life thanks to nature, serve families with a variety of fresh and natural food full of taste and love. I'll try to have many species, focusing on taste and resilience.
i'm in central Italy,close to Rome, 30km far from the west coast.
I own 3 hectars of deep good clay soil, almost flat, but not too flat. ph 6.4, o.m. 2.4%, plenty of elements.
it tends to be waterlogged in winter, especially in flattest points, and it is dry in the hot summers. it's pretty heavy and tends to compaction.
as said: wet and mild winters, hot dry summers. USDA zone 9 - 800mm average annual rain.
the plot has a rectangular shape, 200x100mt.
high sun exposure (especially from W-SW)
a deep well(100mt), that was already available, can pump infinite water all year long. that's why my area is producing kiwis for all the world almost. yet i'm afraid that this(monoculture) is a bad way to manage aboundance and the future may be unpredictable.water has ph around 8.5 and i should test it yet.
The place exposed to winds from all sides since around there are just flat conventional farms
House, storage and well are pretty much in the center of the field, that is divided in two quadrants: Northern and Southern, divided by the main way.
Everything amazing so far and you wish you were me right!? ... Well, the southern quadrant has 2 f*****ng huge electric poles right in the middle(35 mt tall), they are not even quiet, you can ear the electricity passing... I should find a way to cover them with some fast and tall tree, suggestions?
OBSERVATIONS BECOMING PART OF THE PROJECT
i spotted weed growing amazingly on any sort of mound, it states that wherever drainage is good, fertility is great, thus, mound planting/raised beds/mild swales will be my way of working
i will work on contour. raise the ground make sense, but never too much, summers are really dry
let's explain the project: a cross between a forest farm and a forest garden, i want to farm, but i want to feel in a forest/woodland. any pattern, clearing, house, animals etc. will be integrated in the forest itself.
in order to feel in a woodland rather than in agricoltural land i'm using these patterns:
-rows are not straight, but in slightly concentric circles(that follows the contour pattern)
--rows are 1.10mt thick and densely planted, i'll try to space trees enough and add a lot of herbaceous and ground cover
-main rows (featuring trees) are 5mt far from each other, one is almost dense of trees and shrubs, and the other has trees scattered far apart, in order to create visual "mess" and light infiltration to produce annual vegetables underneat(market garden style probably or better syntropyc style).
--between 2 rows of trees there is space for 2 more beds (1.10mt each) (pathways are estimated around 60cm)
-pathways should be kept green and alive, I'll try to learn how to manage them in this way, I'm not sure to be able
The first photo shows the place, if you pay attention you can spot the 2 giants
The second photo shows contour line as well as rows of trees, notice that in the end they will be much more rounded, no straight lines. You may spot the future greenhouse.
The 3rd photo shows zones 1 to 5. Market garden is integrated in the forest gardens in zones 1-2, in zones 2-3 are mostly composed of fruit trees not too tall, also vegetable garden beds are present. From zone 4 it's getting wilder: bigger trees(especially chestnut, walnut, pecan... And then?), Trees for firewood, pasture lands.... Zone 5 you already know!
If you have any suggestion on these or other points, i will appreciate! Especially if you have ideas of efficient ways of forest farming that feels more like a forest
Definitely I need suggestions on spacing trees and shrubs in zones 1,2,3:
on my rows, i should choose the spacing of canopy layer. This layer will be composed of sun loving trees that should not grow over 5-6mt tall to facilitate harvest.
In Between of 6mt trees I'll place a lower tree or a shrub(something that is ok with a bit of shade), and underneath I'll find place for herbaceous layer and smaller shrubs.
... I repeat just to make it clear, I'm now placing the canopy layer to give a basic structure to the forest, then i will fill spaces and niches. My question is: how much space shall i use in this structure given by canopy layer, in order to be later able to comfortably fill the space underneath?
I was thinking 5 or 6 or 7 mt between each canopy tree... But I'm undecided
What do you think do you have any suggestion or thoughs to share?
What do you think about the project more in general?
I took two years to get to this point and this design. I'm now starting to realize it!
I will keep adding updates, thoughts, ideas, questions, and answers
I hope i wrote clearly even if my English is not perfect. Thanks for reading
Amedeo Nofal wrote:I finally made some decisions about beds design
I will start with 80-45 bed-path size and 7 market garden beds between tree rows... As the time goes and trees grow, i will probably eliminate the garden beds close to trees
I will try to keep the light curve in order to follow the flow of the big design, if i find it harder to manage a curvy bed, i will straighten the beds... But i hope it will not be harder to manage