i'm assuming you can bail normal 'lego brick-style' bails if you choose
jimmy gallop wrote:My thought say's it will but between the bails were they are narrow would be lower insulating value ,they could be doubled to be twice as thick.
will make for an interesting look .
Mike Cantrell wrote:Hang on there, Kittum. How much reading have you done on strawbale construction? I'm pretty confident there's a reason why people build with straw and not hay.
Socrates Raramuri wrote:The whole practice of straw bale building came about with the invention of the straw baler. However, the principle is very basic and really has nothing to do with straw per se. It's just that now people have been (i.e. practically) building with straw for over a century, the principle is known and understood.
The principle of straw bale building is that you have an abundance of dry organic matter and then you tie that up tightly into bales that can be stacked. That's it.
It definitely doesn't have to be straw [here are plans for building something that can bail pine needles], but of course there are advantages and disadvantages to different materials. What's essential to 'straw bale building' is that you have some dry organic matter in abundance that can be tied into bales that can then function as very large bricks.
I have often wondered about using hay and the way i see it, it's a good way to put away a significant amount of hay for emergencies; in the case of a severe lack of feed, you can start sacrificing part of a building for saving your livestock.
Straw or hay, you have to cover your walls with cob and build a foundation for them to stand on. If you do this properly, why should you have a rodent issue? Perhaps if you do, you should deal with the fact that you have rodents around your house or just keep up the cob layer well/better. I would not waste good hay as a building material because i might have to deal with rodents.
Having said all that, the smaller your bales the better and these round bales are notoriously large. I know they're popular nowadays but balers used to produce a kind of bricks and that is what led to people using them for building structures with them, not an abundance of organic material. There was always a lot of straw and hay around the world but straw bale building came about because straw balers came into the world. These round bales are overkill in size and dysfunctional as bricks. It would be great if you could rent a square baler or trade your bales or use of your baler for one(s) suitable for building with.
How is it going to be possible to cob a structure built with round bales? Windows? Control form?
expanding on your and mike's comments......
moisture issues is why straw is used and not hay
Kittum Daniel ... wrote:In the end the contents of the bale will be quite devoid of food value and be very dry...
Kittum Daniel wrote:...I would like to build a small building of some sort to at least test the concept. We may not have this opportunity every year like we have right now. I need some help with ideas and advice in order to take advantage of this...
Jay C. White Cloud wrote:
Other than "hand harvesting" some of the "stalk grasses" after going to seed and drying out...I can't think of any of the "hay grass" species that would be even remotely safe enough to put within a wall void?
Jay C. White Cloud wrote:OOOhhhh...Hmmm....now that is something to experiment with perhaps??
So we are really clear Kittum, I have been clear from the beginning of your post, you are interested in "experimenting" with this entire concept...I met it when I said that sound exciting and interesting. I am glad to offer whatever I know or guidance I can give to make this "test structure" as viable as possible. If you can afford to just get some key elements into the structure, and can afford the time and effort bale (round or otherwise) and "monolithic" bale species like this Johnsongrass (i.e. 80% or more of the bale is of that species) it would be really interesting to see how the building behaves and react to aging and the element of time.
If you think this is a go, let's plan on baling this stuff in the second or third week of September - same as 5 or 6 weeks from now. It should be standing dead by then.
Terry Ruth wrote:Here you go buddy your new man cave, get rid of the metal, just pull your tractor in relax over a good Johnson grass pipe smoke or something
Terry Ruth wrote: I'd like to see that structure after a decade and see if my hunch is correct that they are failing at the pre-loaded bolts and/or foundation from vapor uptake.
Terry Ruth wrote:Give me some dimensions and I'll get a model started with a gable roof. Will you be buying dimensioned lumber or using timbers, post a beam? If you read my blog below we recently did Timbers in Enid, Ok we have Clydesdale in Wichita on it and we have Timber Products...that project is around $10,000,000 right now and almost done. I've looked for a local/regional logger/saw miller with no luck.... I must be missing one in the Ozarks? let me know if you find one, Clydesdale gets them from Idaho, Timber Product NM, $$$.
Any idea what type of site soil...look at the chart.
Terry Ruth wrote:K, whats the size and dry weight of the bales again?
Terry Ruth wrote:Walls: Let's use 1.5' D X 4'(2 courses x 8' tall) @ 1150 lbs dry weight ea, 1400 lbs wet max weight @ 20% MC, stacked & staggered, load bearing(wood dowel pined(I'll specify OC), ~r-30 whole wall (@ 16" inch contact area I'll model). Clay or lime renders(4 inches thick) or a 3/8 plywood siding (T&G panels, laps) would give better braced wall or any other continuous wall sheathing if we can figure how to attach.
Roof: 6:12 gabled, 2 x 12's will probably span ok I'll check, infilled with an experimental haycrete (clay, type S lime, r~1.5/inch or r-36). Resting on a 2 x 12 bond beam/birds mouth, mortared and 3/4" D wood dowel pined(I'll specify OC), Simpson hurricane ties(for high winds/open door). Cladding I dunno?
Foundation: 2' deep X 2' wide rubble trench, french drain.
Floor: I dunno earth or Jay can help, not tied to the walls.
Open door 10' wide, one experimental window.
If you don't have the time or $ for this soon let me know since I'll be investing some valuable time into the model which is going to be a strange one( hay bale is not a library material so I need to create it). It will help me get better with Chief Architect even though I have enough on plate with my own design.
Anyone sees a better design let me know otherwise I'll get to modeling when I have time.