Rose Pinder wrote: I also think there is a difference between squatting and sitting on the toilet in terms of how easy it is to have a clean poo.
Mj Raichyk wrote:.... but times are again shifting as we now see that even stodgy Ohio now has (as of 2015) rules to authorize composting toilets and various types of greywater systems but on top of blackwater -- since laundry and kitchen water is considered black in the data on coliforms (e-coli and fecal) plus suspended solids, grease and biological oxygen demanding(BOD).... it will take some hassling with some county health types but some counties are run by decently intelligent types...
We're trying to get some decent system authorized -- composting toilets effectively pretreat the sewage to an extent that seriously improves the quality of the effluent and allows the minimization of the mound dispersal system... wish us luck..... we've got the system design worked out right down to water quality and economic impacts..... ttyl
Corey Schmidt wrote:
2: for many people, toilet paper is actually expensive
Bill Crim wrote:I'm still wondering why there needs to be an alternative to toilet paper? Extremely thin, easily degraded, strips of cellulose seem like a perfect option. The quantity of embedded energy is so trivial as to be meaningless. Quire frankly, if you want to limit paper pollution, a better target would be the elimination of newsprint, rather than toilet paper.
Wendy Howard wrote:
It does seem an incredibly inefficient (not to mention slightly insane) thing to do - to fell a mature tree in order to reduce it to pulp just so we can wipe our asses and noses. If there are less harmful alternatives then shouldn't we be using them? Even producing TP from 'waste' streams of other processes like cereal production has got to be an improvement on using trees and turning a whole country into a desert in the process.
Bill Crim wrote:I think it would be easier to sell(and scale) 100% Permaculture toilet paper with composting toilets than it would be to convince 350 million Americans to start using their hands to wipe their bums.
Burra Maluca wrote:
I don't think this thread is particularly about America, it's more focused on the rest of the world. Permies.com is a world-wide forum, and many of the posters here are not speaking from a US perspective.
As soon as people congregate in any density, human waste starts to become a social issue.
If a hand+water system is used, it needs to be combined with pervasive hand washing. Introducing additional water into a sewage system requires that it is designed to handle it, which is entirely possible to do.
The sewage systems of Phoenix and Toronto operate on very different levels of water/solid flow. If someone lives in an urban slum, then the existing sewage system is often open trenches that carry waste away, but also flood in the rain. Trying to conserve water in Canada is a waste of energy, just as building a large furnace in Phoenix is. In the absence of better(and higher capacity) sewage systems, I think reducing sewage outflows is a better way to achieve higher human health with existing(poor) sanitation infrastructure.
In a Venn diagram of "Places where toilet paper is prohibitively expensive" and "Places that are likely to build a well functioning municipal sewage system" my gut instinct is that there isn't much overlap. I'm open to correction.
Bill Crim wrote:
It only appears insane if you value the hygienic benefits at 0, and the cost of water/sewage at 0. A water-heavy system would exclude most composting toilets. Also, since trees are grown in farms specifically as a crop for this(in most of the country), I don't feel an impulse to protect them. The trees are a yield, and the yield is being put to use in improving hygiene. Wood product manufacturers are not homogenous users of forests. If you are cutting down a mature 80 year old pine tree, you are milling it into lumber. If you are mowing 15 year old farmed pine, you turn it into toilet paper and newsprint.
In general, I think that putting energy into creating better forestry practices (reducing mono-cropping, reducing pesticide use, creating water retention as opposed to irrigation) is more likely to succeed. I think it would be easier to sell(and scale) 100% Permaculture toilet paper with composting toilets than it would be to convince 350 million Americans to start using their hands to wipe their bums.
Kali Maya wrote:I use a 3 gallon bucket filled halfway with water and a TBSP of borax. Leave lid on lightly.
Paul Andrews wrote:Why are we the only animals that need toilet paper?