On Narrow Pond in Ant Village

Hi, Orin here. My first full time day on Ant Village will be July 5th!

What is the difference between living in the Boot Camp and moving into Ant Village???

On July 5th, I'll do my best to share my views on that! I will no longer be posting on my Boot Camp thread after July 5th 2020, so follow me here instead if you want to see what life is like in Ant Village ( know you want to).

Happy 4th of July USA!

It's a personal Independence Day for me too today!

Now for some information about how life is different in Ant Village vs the Boot Camp.

First of all, in the Boot Camp, you get all the food you need however you or the people around you can cook it!  -Since we have good cooks right now, believe me, that's a good thing!
In the Boot Camp, you have full access to a kitchen, a washer machine, and the shower...full access to the Fisher Price House.

As an Ant you don't get any of that.

Yep. Like that.

Fisher Price House is off limits for your basic needs. Gotta make your own shower, grow your own organic food, make your own kitchen and make your own bed (really, both ways).....oh and no tools, you gotta trade labor for tractor time, Judy time (explain that later), and Rex time.

But as an Ant, you don't work from 8am till 12pm and 1pm till 5pm doing what others tell you you need to do. And you don't do 4hrs to 8hrs of nest labor either at the base camp.  Yep! that's means you have all day to work on your on plot!  Where as a Boot only has a day and a half to work on their own projects on an acre they've selected after the first month  -biiiiig difference, I'm telling you, join the people at Ant Village as soon as you've finished the four months!

...but you better work your acre while it's warm because WINTER IS COMING...

Now all the other Boots are going to try to talk you out of moving to Ant Village after four months...something about Deep Roots and some other things which I recommend you don't listen to.....you see, Ant Village is for those who can work because winter is coming and not so much for those who just dream about all the work they could do if they really did.

Yep, so come to the Permies Boot Camp, earn your acre for a year, and get on with it!   And you can drop by to say "hi" over On Narrow Pond (that'd be my acre). And you can got to the Fisher Price House to tell the Boots how happy you are doing your own work every Tuesday night for Taco Tuesday!



oh yes, you will feel sad to leave the other Boots, surprised me how much I'd gotten used to those nice people in daily life...

but look out!, they will definitely try to get you to stay longer in the Permies Boot Camp if they catch you feeling sad because you'll miss them....don't worry, you can visit them on Taco Tuesday...you'll have a lot to do on your acre!

Anyways, tomorrow I'll post a bit more on my move out of the Bunk Room to On Narrow Pond.

Ant Village Post 003

Well I did in fact move out of the Fisher Price House Bunk Room on Sunday...but I didn't take any pictures of washing my sheets and leaving a clean bed there....the loads of junk being carried to my car kept me busy plus unloading it too.

For people who've sent me material support, I'll send more detailed pics and writings...here are some pics for the rest of you.

Go Orin go!

Congratulations on earning your acre the hard way Orin.
Best of luck in coming months building your Nirvana!

Thanks Paul.  

William, you also put in some hard work here.....gotta say tho, four months of work paying for 18 months is hella easy.......Samsara or Nirvana who can tell the difference?  

Ant Post 004

My caution in waiting to be an Ant before I ordered tools via BRK funds seems now unwarranted and definitely has made a mess out of my construction schedule.  The tools didn't arrive when I needed them, which is right now.

Hi Orin. I love your little 'kitchen'!
Sorry I can't send you tools or funds. But I could knit a hat for you like I did for some others (because of the BRK).
If you want a knitted wool hat: what is the size of your head (how many inches or centimeters measured around it just above the ears)? If you prefer socks (house-socks, thick homespun wool), that's possible too. You can send me a PM.

Inge Leonora-den Ouden wrote:Hi Orin. I love your little 'kitchen'!
Sorry I can't send you tools or funds.

Thanks Inge! I've yet to modify it to exactly how I want it.

...and even if you did send tools, due to the shutdown, they would probably arrive after the tools I've already ordered.

Inge Leonora-den Ouden wrote:But I could knit a hat for you like I did for some others (because of the BRK).
If you want a knitted wool hat: what is the size of your head (how many inches or centimeters measured around it just above the ears)? If you prefer socks (house-socks, thick homespun wool), that's possible too. You can send me a PM.

I will definitely send you a PM! Your knitted items are not to be missed out on!

I have a Fiskars steel shovel like in the picture above, definitely one of my most used tools.

Everything's lookin good!

Thanks Steve.  I'm hoping someone will have mercy on my corn, squash and tomatoes which survived one watering a week....I definitely believe I'll have at least 7 honey locust trees and some sunchokes which survive the winter!

Ant Post 005

Life in Ant Village.... there's more going on here than meets the eye...this a very small compost pile from an organic source  -free (sort of...transportation costs not included)!

...a ground squirrel is getting fat on those little pieces which didn't get compost tea put on them.....very fat -don't think the rubber boa snake can get its mouth around him yet.

...and here's Ben's cooking stove which I will rebuild. Why? Notice the flames jetting out around the pan?  Before I put the pan on, the flame is only 2/3rd's up the vertical part of the L, after the pan is over the opening, the flame jets upward  -BUT IS STILL BLACK WITH SOOT.  This means the pan tries to form the J of a true rocket stove but fails to burn cleanly. The first 90 in the J is equal to the entire L, the second 90 in the J is superior to the pan over the opening because the J tube doesn't leak around a pan, it has to burn around a solid 90. The L stove burns more wood than a rocket cook stove with a J instead of the L....Here are the things I'll do when I rebuild it:
-I'll raise the whole cook stove J tube so the top of the J tube is at solar plexus height;
-this will mean the feed tube will be at about crotch height ( I won't have to crouch to feed the fire);
-I'll reduce the aperture down to five to six inches, this will reduce the amount of wood the current stove will use in addition to burning less wood than the L tube because it is a J tube which burns more efficiently.

My mid-day potato won't be burnt either like the L tube's mid-day potato is right now....I can close up both the top and the bottom of a J tube and the heat in the J tube alone will cook a potato where as the L tube looses too much heat because the vertical part of the L is so much larger than the short part of the L where the potato currently has to be cooked....more heat is lost up the very high L and the potato is much closer to incoming very cool air. For this reason, I have no choice but to put the potato in while there is still a little flame left on the wood ....even then a larger potato will not cook all the way through in the L tube like it would in a rocket stove J tube.

Ant Post 006

Finished my rock cistern today!  Yep, you got it...those pics are for those who sent support for On Narrow Pond.  Here are some nice pics for the rest of you.

Orin, your cistern is quite lovely!!  (sorry to all that can't see it, but trust me....it's nice)

Thank you Greg, it was a bit of work :)

Hey Orin i'm enjoying following your posts both bootcamp and ant village.I appreciate your hardwork and determination.There is an animalistic feeling and tranquility on the lab.Stare at the clouds but not to long.Stay in the woods and your good.If you think you got enough firewood cut twice as much.Once you have a village you our as strong as the steppe.I like the rock cistern idea pretty sweet getting a Nabataean feel to it.Narrow ponds reminds me of EarthSea books.Keep it up brother lookin good.You got any pictures of old structures?how has bearcave aged?

Orin, I have a question.
You are in Ant Village now. I used to follow the Ants before, who were busy building some nice little houses there. But all of them left and didn't return. How many Ants are there living in Ant Village now? What happened to the houses the others made?

Ben Skiba wrote:....I like the rock cistern idea pretty sweet getting a Nabataean feel to it.Narrow ponds reminds me of EarthSea books.....

I knew the only way I personally could bring water to my acre is to store it from rain; rocking in clay walls seemed the natural answer. Since the Upper Labs are a glacial rain forest in the winter (complete with misting freezing rains), and a high desert in the summer, narrow ponds, whose depth are greater than their diameter, seemed like the answer for hot weather evaporation in the summer and collection during the winter.  

Ben Skiba wrote:Keep it up brother lookin good.You got any pictures of old structures?how has bearcave aged?

The logs and small poles used for the walls/ceiling were not barked and as a result now are full of white fungi which are rapidly breaking the poles down.  Additionally, many of the poles and logs were not long enough to meet at the center or the roof line; this means at some point in the future, when the tarps degrade (which they will due to not having dirt or brush cover at the top 3rd of the roof), the roof will have holes in it in many places.

The clay sides are now caving in near the cut in seats and cut roots due to water.

My solution to this is to remove all the brush, remove the tarps, cut new poles of the correct length. remove the bark, and replace the too short and too rotten poles.

Since I will basically re-design and replace most of the building (I suspect only the clay floor and mid thigh clay walls will remain), I'll rename the new building the Dwarf's Redoubt. I use this name because the site has no solar gain unless I remove many trees.... I might redo it in rock entirely to prevent the clay from caving in. It won't be my living space; I have ideas and plans but I'll wait to see how the place evolves.

I don't share pictures of what I do on Narrow Pond to the general public; those who provide material support get that kind of information.

I see you are near or on Dine land. I love the southwest in a way not easily explained. I hope your own scared four are well established or on the way to being so!

Inge Leonora-den Ouden wrote:Orin, I have a question.
You are in Ant Village now. I used to follow the Ants before, who were busy building some nice little houses there. But all of them left and didn't return. How many Ants are there living in Ant Village now? What happened to the houses the others made?

There are three Deep Roots people on Upper Wheaton Labs right now. Paul is really encouraging Boots to transition to the Deep Roots program rather than the Ant Village Program; I believe he is trying new methods since the first Ant Village experiment resulted in many Ants leaving. In the USA, living in community isn't easy for those of us not born into the Amish or Hutterrite traditions. Since I am interested in creating a functioning example of shelter, water, fire and food before I experiment, I've chosen the Ant Village program where in I have time....when I want to contribute to the community, I can. The Deep Roots people have much less time to create their own shelter, water, fire and food systems. Because I feel the Ant Village program makes the most sense for me an others like me, I invite new Boots to seriously consider the Ant Program. I've failed in this endeavor; I am the only Ant besides Jaqi. Clayton has chosen the Deep Roots program, and is working on the Lemon Tree site as his acre should he complete two years in the Boot Camp.

So that makes six people actively engaged in Upper Wheaton Labs currently.

As to the houses other Ants made, the first lot is rented and managed by a woman whom I've never seen nor met since she does this remotely. Clayton almost chose Lot 2 upon which Evan and Kai built and lived. Both of these buildings exist but were never really completed...except for maybe Kai's.  I say never finished because, when I consider a shelter I ask: where is the kitchen?, where is the rocket stove?, where is the shower?, where is the humanure repository? where is the bed? So Kai has a bed, has a kitchen stove but no sink, no rocket stove, no shitter,  and no shower. Kai did do something I really liked: he collected water off his natural roof! -he was the only one with who attempted this. Evan used to have a rocket stove and Walker stove but he took it with him, but no sink, and his shower/shitter wasn't finished. I think, don't know, Evan's bed was the bench of his rocket stove. I like the fact that Evan's place is the best thermal performer in the summer (keeps it cooler than all the other buildings). Lot 3 and 5 have nothing left worth discussing. Lot 5, Jesse's acre has a shelter which Jaqi chose. And there is lot 6, now named On Narrow Pond, which I've claimed. There are two buildings which have major issues requiring that I rebuild them or tear them down. There is also Hill Billy Mansion which was built with banned building materials; I've agreed to demolish Hll Billy Mansion for any allowed building materials I can reclaim AND to take the banned materials to the dump.

I feel that Ant Village has a chance of success once one person actually creates the scared four: shelter, water, fire, and food. Without a full example of the scared four on the land, I feel few with realize what an opportunity this really is.

Thank you Orin!

Thanks for the reply Orin.I pmed you some history.Mainly a lightening god that once lived there haha.I don't wanna take away from your blog.Dwarfs redoubt awesome name.Any plans for the wofati by lemontree site?

Ben Skiba wrote:Thanks for the reply Orin.I pmed you some history.Mainly a lightening god that once lived there haha.I don't wanna take away from your blog.Dwarfs redoubt awesome name.Any plans for the wofati by lemontree site?

Nothing taken away Ben. I've watched all the videos I could find including on Jesse's youtube channel so I could understand the past in order to find a path in to the future. The amount of heart and work that went into some of the structures, the wildness of the place and the following loss was something I wanted to understand....and build a bridge into whatever comes next.

Naw, the Dwarf's Redoubt is a narly awkward name, picked to reflect the fact there is no solar gain, difficult in its placement with regards to flooding, and yet that I still want to save the pit portion to preserve the internal feel of the old structure ....maybe I will rock the entire thing in (nubian vault comes to mind). On the other hand, On Narrow Pond, has more than one meaning and reflects the person who hopes to shape it :)

I understand the shortness of the building season and the race too which pushed people to build with less regard to long term viability than to immediacy.... my critique of the shelters is biased by my own shelter, water, fire and food goals, and certainly not about the  people who built them nor the events which ushered out their era on the Upper Wheaton Labs.

Had the lighting god gotten lighting perhaps On Narrow Pond would never exist!  Where the Bear Den once stood, there will either be a cool tribute to the first group living in Ant Village or a mere clay water basin good for catching rain and directing it to a narrow pond -time always tells the story.

The Lemon Tree site is being worked by Clayton now. He is having to replace the six main poles holding up the roof; not an easy task to say the least!

Orin Raichart wrote:

Inge Leonora-den Ouden wrote:Orin, I have a question.
You are in Ant Village now. I used to follow the Ants before, who were busy building some nice little houses there. But all of them left and didn't return. How many Ants are there living in Ant Village now? What happened to the houses the others made?

There are three Deep Roots people on Upper Wheaton Labs right now. Paul is really encouraging Boots to transition to the Deep Roots program rather than the Ant Village Program; I believe he is trying new methods since the first Ant Village experiment resulted in many Ants leaving. In the USA, living in community isn't easy for those of us not born into the Amish or Hutterrite traditions. Since I am interested in creating a functioning example of shelter, water, fire and food before I experiment, I've chosen the Ant Village program where in I have time....when I want to contribute to the community, I can. The Deep Roots people have much less time to create their own shelter, water, fire and food systems. Because I feel the Ant Village program makes the most sense for me an others like me, I invite new Boots to seriously consider the Ant Program. I've failed in this endeavor; I am the only Ant besides Jaqi. Clayton has chosen the Deep Roots program, and is working on the Lemon Tree site as his acre should he complete two years in the Boot Camp.

So that makes six people actively engaged in Upper Wheaton Labs currently.

As to the houses other Ants made, the first lot is rented and managed by a woman whom I've never seen nor met since she does this remotely. Clayton almost chose Lot 2 upon which Evan and Kai built and lived. Both of these buildings exist but were never really completed...except for maybe Kai's.  I say never finished because, when I consider a shelter I ask: where is the kitchen?, where is the rocket stove?, where is the shower?, where is the humanure repository? where is the bed? So Kai has a bed, has a kitchen stove but no sink, no rocket stove, no shitter,  and no shower. Kai did do something I really liked: he collected water off his natural roof! -he was the only one with who attempted this. Evan used to have a rocket stove and Walker stove but he took it with him, but no sink, and his shower/shitter wasn't finished. I think, don't know, Evan's bed was the bench of his rocket stove. I like the fact that Evan's place is the best thermal performer in the summer (keeps it cooler than all the other buildings). Lot 3 and 5 have nothing left worth discussing. Lot 5, Jesse's acre has a shelter which Jaqi chose. And there is lot 6, now named On Narrow Pond, which I've claimed. There are two buildings which have major issues requiring that I rebuild them or tear them down. There is also Hill Billy Mansion which was built with banned building materials; I've agreed to demolish Hll Billy Mansion for any allowed building materials I can reclaim AND to take the banned materials to the dump.

I feel that Ant Village has a chance of success once one person actually creates the scared four: shelter, water, fire, and food. Without a full example of the scared four on the land, I feel few with realize what an opportunity this really is.

Neat to hear about how things have aged. The village seemed like it was off to a great start when I saw it in 2015, but man, community is hard.. getting set up fast enough to overwinter is hard... and the assorted Paul Rules definitely add to the challenge!

If I remember correctly, one of the previous ants had hand-drilled a well; what became of this?

Good luck!

I think the Boot to Ant or Deep Roots is a big improvement on Ant Village. It allows people to get a feel for Paul's personality and management style before they commit. And more importantly, it also allows people who don't have the skills to build a house or rocket stove, etc, the opportunity to learn those skills. I know I couldn't build a house right now. But, I think I would learn a LOT through Bootcamp that would teach me how to do just that, especially if I did the SKIP and Permaculture Design Course and Permaculture Technology Jamboree, that you can do as a work-trade through Bootcamp. There's a lot of opportunities for people to gain the skills they need. And, there's a huge opportunity for someone like Orin who's already got a bunch of skills to get an acre of land without any money spent.

Bootcamp isn't an option for me--we already have property and kids and are pretty well rooted. But, I really think it's a great opportunity for many people!

Nicole Alderman wrote:I think the Boot to Ant or Deep Roots is a big improvement on Ant Village. It allows people to get a feel for Paul's personality and management style before they commit. And more importantly, it also allows people who don't have the skills to build a house or rocket stove, etc, the opportunity to learn those skills. I know I couldn't build a house right now. But, I think I would learn a LOT through Bootcamp that would teach me how to do just that, especially if I did the SKIP and Permaculture Design Course and Permaculture Technology Jamboree, that you can do as a work-trade through Bootcamp. There's a lot of opportunities for people to gain the skills they need. And, there's a huge opportunity for someone like Orin who's already got a bunch of skills to get an acre of land without any money spent.

Bootcamp isn't an option for me--we already have property and kids and are pretty well rooted. But, I really think it's a great opportunity for many people!

Bootcamp IMO is going to be a much more impactful thing. People are more likely to learn more, and move on when the time is right for them, either to a longer term Lab opportunity, or elsewhere. Kind of like WWOOFing on steroids. Would have found it pretty tempting if it was around when I was still drifting.

And, things are getting done on long term projects managed by long term people; as we've just read, it sounds like a large portion of the hard work done by the first-gen ants is pretty well wasted, for a variety of reasons.



And ya, hopefully a byproduct of a successful boot-stream is a trickle of ants, skilled up and pre-calibrated to withstand the lab/paul environs.. A village needs villagers!

D Nikolls wrote:
...Neat to hear about how things have aged. The village seemed like it was off to a great start when I saw it in 2015, but man, community is hard.. getting set up fast enough to overwinter is hard... and the assorted Paul Rules definitely add to the challenge!

If I remember correctly, one of the previous ants had hand-drilled a well; what became of this?

Good luck!

The assorted rules from Paul are about creating a place of environmental purity; since the current mainstream culture uses toxic materials and crazy high energy manufacturing materials like concrete to build with, yes, those rules require a person to be clever to address the needs the lack of those toxic materials present. For those who see no harm in poison building materials, it really goes against the grain not to be able to use plywood for those people with that mind set. Many of the previous inhabitants of Ant Village were clever enough to build within those purity guidelines; the person who built Hilly Billy Mansion failed to, in spite of being capable of doing slip straw. There are other rules too about community which I have no intent of discussing with the general public. Obviously, I like Paul's general view of community otherwise I wouldn't have put four months of work in the Boot Camp in.

There are two hand drilled wells on Upper Wheaton Labs. The most successful one was modded which caused issues by a person who is no longer here. Fred, Josiah, and Jen were looking to get a bit of water out of that one but haven't gotten it working yet (more of a lack of funds than a lack of knowing what to do). This well, if working, is much too far from On Narrow Pond. This well seems to provide a gallon or two per hour. Notice I typed "per hour" and not per minute.

The second one doesn't work at all; there seems to be a plug down the water pipe or clay/silt has plugged it up.  When it did work, it only provided a gallon or maybe two for every quart that was used to prime it. Given the second well can only give about a gallon or so when it did work, it is only good for drinking water (assuming the water was drinking quality) for one person really. Notice I typed "per quart" and not per hour. It could be the water table has dropped below the second well's depth.

D Nikolls wrote:....
And, things are getting done on long term projects managed by long term people; as we've just read, it sounds like a large portion of the hard work done by the first-gen ants is pretty well wasted, for a variety of reasons.

And ya, hopefully a byproduct of a successful boot-stream is a trickle of ants, skilled up and pre-calibrated to withstand the lab/paul environs.. A village needs villagers!

IMO the work done by Evan and Kai is wasn't wasted. A person moving on to that lot will have some perennials already growing on earthworks that really seem to be more green than places without the hugels. Evan's structure, while small and not rodent proof, with a few modifications in the short summer would be a great place to overwinter the first three winters. While I really like the skill that Kai put into his building and his roof water collection, his building is just too small for a Montana winter. Both Evan and Kai wintered outside in tents, so they really did see buildings as just a place to sleep and the outdoors as their living room and kitchen even in winter.

I'm not sure about Jesse's structure. It wasn't solar south oriented (none of the Ant's buildings were, I suspect magnetic south was used instead). I'm also not sure about his earthworks to shed water away from his structure because I've never seen the kind of water run off Kai and Evan saw on Upper Wheaton Labs. The spring I witnessed didn't even have the creek flowing a little through Ant Village; I suspect the clear cut forest above Wheaton Labs had something to do with that.