• Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
permaculture forums growies critters building homesteading energy monies kitchen purity ungarbage community wilderness fiber arts art permaculture artisans regional education skip experiences global resources cider press projects digital market permies.com private forums all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
master stewards:
  • Anne Miller
  • Pearl Sutton
  • Nicole Alderman
stewards:
  • Mike Haasl
  • r ranson
  • paul wheaton
master gardeners:
  • jordan barton
  • John F Dean
  • Rob Lineberger
  • Carla Burke
  • Jay Angler
gardeners:
  • Greg Martin
  • Ash Jackson
  • Jordan Holland

Perma Ideas for Finland

 
Posts: 5
Location: Akaa, Finland
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hei Permies,

I am new to permanent agriculture and here to learn more and practically try things slowly, also very limited on budget side.

I am here to ask for some suggestions and validate my ideas for a small permaculture farm in Akaa Finland. I have around 1200m2 (49m x 28m) of flat land in Akaa, the soil the clay, very hard clay that can retain moisture and get thick and suffocate plants in heavy rain and could dry out completely during lack of rain. The Ph is around 6-7

I was planning to make a fence like hedge using some berries that could be 1-2m tall. I was thinking about raspberries. Some online stores sells the canes here but god dammit it is so expensive, like 10€ per cane and I'd probably need 100 of them if I am going to use just that for fencing.  Any suggestions if there are places that can offer some raspberries and other berries cane for relatively cheap? I wouldn't mind free options too. If you have any suggestions regarding any other berries that could be used as hedge in southern Finland then please do not hesitate to write.

I will write more, as this post is getting longer and it might bore some of you

T.Mikko

 
pollinator
Posts: 447
Location: Boudamasa, Chad
109
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hi Mikko,
Good luck on your new agriculture venture! I have two ideas:
1, raspberries multiply quickly, sendng up new canes from their roots. So if you have the patience, you could buy 10 canes, and in a few years you'll have many, many more.
2, check online and see if you can connect to gardeners in your area. Many people are happy to share raspberry canes. My in-laws pull them up every year just to keep them contained.

Another suggestion: a good hedge has several species in it. Take a walk in some wild areas in your climate and see what's growing densely. They could help you.
 
Mikko Ahtisaari
Posts: 5
Location: Akaa, Finland
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Thank you Nathanael
 
Mikko Ahtisaari
Posts: 5
Location: Akaa, Finland
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
My hedge idea is just for decorative and food source rather than safety. We have mostly retirees as neighbours and they like to keep their lawn clean and fence tightened for their dogs. So no problem with kids or animals trespassing.

My another plan is to use hardwood logs after the berries hedge. I want to inoculate the logs with some mushroom dowels and lay the logs in the berries' shadow, acting as 2nd layer of fence and also mushroom cultivation. Oysters and Shiitake grows in Birch logs, I was thinking to try to exotic varieties that grows in hardwood like yamabushitake or some other medicinal mushrooms.

I have room for 2 big (full grown) fruit trees and I was thinking to utilize other space with semi-dwarf fruit trees, dwarf fruit trees, etc. Any ideas on these fruit trees is welcome too. Maybe some N-fixer too. Lots of planning, sometimes I think I am over planning and set for full disappointment.
 
gardener
Posts: 3073
Location: Southern Illinois
567
transportation cat dog fungi trees building writing rocket stoves woodworking
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Mikko,

I think Nathanael has a very good point about the ability for raspberries to spread.  I did one look at a catalog called Nourse Farms.  They were a professional supply catalog and one could order in bulk.  Also, sometimes you can buy at the end of the season when catalog’s are trying to get rid of their stock.  At those times, you can get real deals, but unfortunately you can’t be picky about what variety you will get.  I don’t know if this matters to you or not.  One other raspberry point: you said the price was 10 euro per plant.  Are you sure it was per plant or was it per offer?  The reason I ask is that I can order raspberries for about $10/offer, with an offer being typically 3-5 actual plants.

Regarding your mushroom log idea, I think that is absolutely great!  I am just starting mushrooms and I can barely believe how fertile they make my gardens, so if you have the logs and spawn, I say go for it!

Please let us know how things work out!

Eric
 
Eric Hanson
gardener
Posts: 3073
Location: Southern Illinois
567
transportation cat dog fungi trees building writing rocket stoves woodworking
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Mikko,

I just checked at

https://www.noursefarms.com/product/prelude/

And their prices for raspberries get down to 1-2$/plant if you buy in bulk.  You can get 100 plants for just about $200.  I realize this is far from free, but it is certainly a lot cheaper than 10 euro/plant!  

Nourse Farms is an American company, and I am not sure how/if they can be shipped internationally, nor do I know the price for international shipping, but I am sure that you can find a European commercial distributor that can do much the same.  

At any rate, this is just one option.

Eric
 
Mikko Ahtisaari
Posts: 5
Location: Akaa, Finland
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Eric, thank you for your response and words of encouragement.

I checked the Nourse farms and they do not ship outside of US. There were few stores in UK with a bit lesser price but I think it is less of risk to use locally grown varieties as the plants are habituated of the climate.

Some raspberries varieties are a bit cheaper but 10€ was average price. This place is quiet closer to mine and they have good selection, I wish it'd come bit cheaper, or I might go with their cheaper varieties. https://www.pinsiontaimistontuotteet.fi/tuotteet/marjakasvit/vadelmat/605/

 
Eric Hanson
gardener
Posts: 3073
Location: Southern Illinois
567
transportation cat dog fungi trees building writing rocket stoves woodworking
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Mikko,

I am afraid that Nourse Farms would not deliver to you.  I would really consider the UK company.  I too would want to buy close to home but you do have a budget.

Do you have any wild bramble fruit that you could transplant?  Just a thought.

In the end, do what feels best for for you.

Best of luck,

Eric
 
gardener
Posts: 709
Location: France, Burgundy, parc naturel Morvan
297
forest garden fish fungi trees food preservation cooking solar wood heat woodworking homestead
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hi Mikko, welcome! Great to hear of Finnish people getting into perma culture. If you need nitrogen fixing flowers, lupines are everywhere in Finland, just collect the seeds or dig them out and replant them in your garden. If you want nitrogen fixing berries you could try gummi or autumn olive.
PFAF
If you need to break up the hard clay in your garden, maybe somebody could bring you a load of woodchips. It will help against drying out the soil in summer, as well as attract soil life, worms and fungi etc..The worms will work the decaying wood slowly into the clay.
There must be some wild plants that can break through the clay with a strong pen shaped root around where you live in the wild no doubt.
I know it sucks if you can't just buy what you want, but nature is a very generous friend. I've collected over 200 different kinds of plants in my small garden, which attracts a great amount of insect, which attracts birds, who drop seeds and droppings.
I hope this English Permie who lives in Finland, forgot her name comes on. She can help with specific information.
I know some Finns are busy building a school for self sufficiency, a very unique project, they have a course roundwoodbuilding this summer if i remember correctly.
english version of Omavaraopisto
There is a dutchman on Permies from the North busy trying to collect seeds from Northern countries, that can stand the cold, there was a Finnish permaculture project that sends adapted seeds for a small amount, don't know if they're still around. They were on facebook, they must have open days or give courses.
You're not alone and your country has great potential! Keep us posted and ask whatever you want!
 
Eric Hanson
gardener
Posts: 3073
Location: Southern Illinois
567
transportation cat dog fungi trees building writing rocket stoves woodworking
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hugo,

You mentioned autumn olive.  In my opinion the best use for autumn olive is to cut it and chip it up for mushroom compost or just a mulch.  I have it and it is invasive.  That being said, as I use it for chips, it is actually quite beneficial (I have an unlimited supply of woodchips).

Eric
 
Morning came much too soon and it brought along a friend named Margarita Hangover, and a tiny ad.
Rocket mass heaters in greenhouses can be tricky - these plans make them easy: Wet Tolerant Rocket Mass Heater in a Greenhouse Plans
reply
    Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic