That PDF seemed to say nothing. I was waiting for the part that said "so we set up 40 difference species and for each species we had twelve samples. Two samples were a control, two were mulched with compost, two were mulched with cedar, two were mulched with hay, two were mulched with douglas fir chips, two were mulched with straw. The results were ...."
Instead we got "What those people over there said .... yeah, that's a myth. And me ... what I say .... well, I speak the truth."
Joined: Apr 03, 2010
Posts: 1102
Location: Portugal
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I tried following the link given in the paper. It took me to a site where I found the relevant section, clicked on the link, and it took me straight back to the original paper.
Of course, she might be right in what she's saying, but she's not exactly offering much evidence for it.
stalk of fennel
Joined: Jul 12, 2010
Posts: 123
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Well I started digging around. Gotta get that knowledge. Here you go Paul I think the good Doctor may have been getting her information from the 7th link down.
This pdf from the UF says that 'Preliminary reports indicate that wood extracts inhibit lettuce seed as much as or more than black walnut extracts' They give no indication on what kind of study was done or how they come to that conclusion. http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/pdffiles/HS/HS18600.pdf
Maybe the most intersting study done, yet they don't really study cedar. This is the first scientific study I've seen where they study the soil pH under different mulches. After 1 year pine needles had shifted the soil pH down (more acidic) but after 15 months there was no difference in pH under the various types of mulch. It also says: "The presence of hydroxylated aromatic compounds in all 6 fresh mulches and the demonstrated inhibition of germination by fresh mulch extracts suggests that, at least initially, all the mulches have allelopathic properties to some degree. With mulches, allelopathic properties could have 2 possible impacts: 1) a mulch might inhibit germination of weed seeds, or 2) a mulch might inhibit growth of landscape plants. After 1 year in the field, there was no difference in the number of weeds growing in any of the mulches. The study comparing 15 organic mulches showed less weed growth with mulches compared to bare soil but no difference between all the mulches tested" Another thing I really like reading here was that mulch generated by utility services had the highest nutrient value of all the mulches but that it also broke down the fastest. I suppose this makes complete sense because of the diversity (where have we heard that word before) of material. http://www.treelink.org/joa/1999/march/06_COMPARISON_OF_LANDSCAPE_MULCHES_duryea.pdf
To me it looks like all wood based mulches have anti germinating effects on seeds, especially monocots (grasses). It doesn't seem to me that cedar is any more of an inhibitor then the other wood based mulches. Enjoy the read
Burra Maluca
steward
Joined: Apr 03, 2010
Posts: 1102
Location: Portugal
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Well done, Stalk of Fennel! That's more like the kind of info we need!
I haven't gone through the whole lot of links yet (I will, I will) but I get the impression that white cedar might be a jolly good sort of mulch to put in your veggie garden around your plants to stop the monocot grasses growing up as weeds around the dicot veggies.
Jocelyn Campbell
steward
Joined: Nov 09, 2008
Posts: 956
Location: Western WA, USA, USDA Zone 8a, 46" annual rain
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Interesting. Though the myth she's debunking is not one I've heard of. I've heard tell of conifer wood chips making it harder for plants to thrive, not all-out killing them. It makes sense that it's unlikely that conifer wood chips would kill plants.
The article mentions that cedar inhibits bacteria and fungi. That's a positive when you want your wood to last in the outdoors, but not so much in the garden. Thoughts?
Jocelyn Campbell wrote: Interesting. Though the myth he's debunking is not one I've heard of. I've heard tell of conifer wood chips making it harder for plants to thrive, not all-out killing them. It makes sense that it's unlikely that conifer wood chips would kill plants.
The article mentions that cedar inhibits bacteria and fungi. That's a positive when you want your wood to last in the outdoors, but not so much in the garden. Thoughts?
interestingly enough morel mushroom season is about to start here in central texas. apparently they are only found in cedar/juniper groves on sloped limestone ground. weird huh?
Tyler Ludens
Joined: Jun 25, 2010
Posts: 3702
Location: Central Texas USA Latitude 30 Zone 8
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Cedar only inhibits bacteria and fungi to a point. In a moist, living environment such as the soil, there's so many bacteria and fungi they will eventually rot the chips especially since they have such an enormous surface area. Add in some manure and there's no problem, in my opinion. Rot will only be inhibited for a brief period.
Joined: Nov 09, 2008
Posts: 956
Location: Western WA, USA, USDA Zone 8a, 46" annual rain
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Oh man, I replied without refreshing my browser from last night, so I was waaayyy behind on this topic! And here I'm replying and Ludi has already posted. You guys are too quick!
Wish I could read more of Fennel's links for some real info, because I agree that article raised more questions than it answered, but I'm going back to work....
subject: The Myth of Allelopathic Wood Chips/Wood chips made from cedars will kill plants
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I think the good Doctor may have been getting her information from the 7th link down.
