Kevin Olson

Carla -

It's getting on toward stove season again, at least up here in the north country.  It's been a very warm September, but I know we'll have snow in the air soon enough.  So, maybe it's time to refresh this topic.

Regarding triangular section collapsible stoves (of the style once built by Wyoming Lost and Found - that was indeed the name of the company, in Greybull, WY), I did spot this video:

I'd want a different chimney attachment method than he shows, and as I had mentioned up thread, I am not a big fan of having a bunch of loose pieces, of which collection some critical bit can go missing at the least opportune time.  However, as an example of the general layout of a triangular stove, this is representative.

Also, his chimney diameter is quite small.  To be fair, 2-1/2" diameter (63mm) is not uncommon in the very small commercial pack stoves, but 3" and 4" pipe hardware is more commonly available (at least here in the US).  Spark arrestors, and lightweight damper plates, for example, and "Charlie Noble" rain caps.  I have a collection of damper plates, scavenged from junk shops and garage sales, and I am fairly certain I have a 3" cast iron damper plate, and do have a 4" damper.  Other bits and bobs for 3" and 4" are available as pellet stove parts.

I now have a roll of 24" wide galvanized flashing (actually bought for flashing an eave, but there will be plenty left over), so I am hoping to get something knocked together as a "Mark 1, Mod 0" prototype pack-flat tent stove within the next few weeks.  Though there are lots of other jobs to get done before the snow is knee deep on the ground, too.  So, if I do get to that project, I'll post something.

I was also reading a couple of Warren Miller's books on camping (he was an editor at Field and Stream magazine, starting before WWI), in which he has a surprising amount to say about light weight heated tents of various sorts, and some on tent stoves, too.  In particular, "Camp Craft" (1915) and "Camping Out" (1918), scans of both of which books can be downloaded from Archive.  He was using lightweight cotton cloth such as galatea or cambric, chemically waterproofed or waxed to help it shed water.  I've been eyeing up some "downproof" cotton ticking, which should be very tightly woven but still light weight, though I haven't yet taken the plunge.  One of his preferred designs for cold weather camping is not unlike my half shelter pup tent (which is honestly quite heavy, already), to which I would like to add a button-on wall skirt to give a bit more head room.  There was an article in Boy's Life magazine in the 1950s showing a similar conversion.  I'll attach the article, on edit.

Juniper Zen wrote:I love the look of terraces, too. I have an a-frame level for finding contour.

You're welcome.  Happy to contribute some grist for the mill.

If you already have an A-frame style level constructed, so much the better.  For others who may not have one, another method of finding level (from which an off-contour slope can also be established), can be seen in this video:

Sort of a homemade dumpy or engineer's optical level.  A straight-up water level (hose level) would also work, but you'd be limited by the length of hose and (depending on how chilly it was) the liquid you could use to find level (RV antifreeze - the pink, non-toxic stuff - might be helpful, but I haven't tried it).

Eugenio has all sorts of Permie-adjacent and/or old-timey ways of doing things - from building construction and agriculture, to handicraft projects - documented on his channel.

Worth poking around to check out his offerings, in my opinion.

And, welcome to Permies, John!

If somewhat belatedly...

The need for the drain probably depends on: local soil; local terrain; local hydrology; and the type of building you are constructing.  And, local building codes will probably trump all of that.

For example, where our house is, the soil is what my neighbor terms a sandy loam, but it's quite sticky when wet.  There's enough clay that the surface of the driveway where I park cracks as it dries.  For any new construction, I'd want either a perimeter drain or battered (pitched away from the foundation) closed cell insulation, covered with a couple of layers of 6 mil poly sheet, and then back filled.  Or both.  I've managed to mitigate some leaks through the 1890s-era rock basement wall by doing the foam board and poly sheet trick, though when we get a torrential downpour out of the northeast, we still have a bit of water in the basement.  Everything important is on pallets or otherwise not directly on the floor, though, just in case.  On the other hand, at our lake property, it's pretty much beach sand, though the water table is high (or the ground is low - depends on your point of reference, I suppose).  Out there, any drainage scheme is probably both unnecessary and unhelpful.  Anything earth sheltered there will need to have earth bermed up around it, rather than excavating down below grade.  And so on,

The Northmen YT channel had a video on building a rock filled trench foundation in a very Permies-friendly and traditional way, which may be worth a watch:

The soil at this site must drain fairly well, since they repeatedly wash sand between the stones by filling the trench with water.  Their rye-flour modified mortar is interesting, too.

I can't claim any originality for the idea of switchback terraces.  I think I first saw it in photos of a vineyard somewhere - maybe near Porto, Portugal?  I don't remember, now.  Ben Falk's version is mostly ponds, all down the slope, which isn't quite what I had in mind for your project.  Depending on the slope of the switchback terraces, it might be either prudent or necessary to add water bars or diversion trenches to slow or redirect the flow.  Maybe those could drain into small swales or ponds.

The wide turning radius of your mower could be trouble for my switchback terrace idea.  But, if you have a tractor with a shuttle shift (or don't mind driving backward very slowly) and can ride side-saddle, you might not even need true hairpin turns at the ends of the terraces, just flat spots somewhat longer than the mower where you can reverse direction and transition from one terrace to the next.  You might need the mower discharge chute to face down hill, unless you have a rear bagger.  Assuming you are using a suction-type finish mower deck.

For really steep slopes (30 to perhaps 45 degrees, or even steeper), there are several approaches used in, for example, the vineyards and high pastures of alpine Europe: winches to raise and lower tools, supplies and fruit; rack monorails (Doppelmayr is one brand); very wide track tractors (dual wheels on spacers), for improved stability on steep slopes; tracked tractors (rather than on wheels); and so on.

Thanks for clarifying.

I haven't gotten into doing badge bits, yet.  I've never been much of a "ticket puncher," I guess - more interested in acquiring skills and producing final products, or helping someone else do the same.  I was that way, even in Boy Scouts.  But, lots of stuff I do would probably qualify for BBs, with a bit of forethought to be sure I'm not transgressing the rules.  Maybe this would be a good place to start.

Thanks again.

Not sure about your physical abilities, but what about mowing with a scythe, rather than the riding mower, on this sloped parcel?

Another thought: could you make switchback terraces down this slope?  Level-ish where the mower runs, but with the slope of the terraces alternating back and forth across the fall line of the general slope.  Somebody (Ben Falk?) has done a version of this on a steep rocky slope  in the northeastern US, with very good results.  With your predominantly clay soil, retaining walls of rammed earth may be feasible (with or without an added stabilizer such as lime, Portland cement or wood ash).

Yet another idea:  can you do some dirt work to even out the slope, then contour plow with a chisel plow, middle buster or ripper?  Search for PA Yeomans for details, though true keyline plowing on such a small parcel probably isn't feasible.  This could be combined with the daikons already suggested.

Mike Haasl wrote:
  - This bb can only use materials that existed 200 years ago

For clarification, does this include the tools used in its construction, or just the final product?

I have a (bought used, off FB Marketplace) Icebox igloo maker slip form system, which I have not yet used "in anger".  It is made of plastic and aluminum tubing (with a few steel fasteners).  It is no more permanent than a shovel to the eventual structure, however.  It's just a form system to assure a proper catenary dome for maximum structural strength and stability.

For reference, here's the commercial link:
https://skipulk.com/product/icebox-igloo-tool/


Despite the fact that this September has been some of the nicest summer we've had all year, I know that winter is rapidly approaching...

I would think that the steel burr style of grain mill, rather than one with stones (whether natural or synthetic) would be a surer bet, though I have no experience with hackberries.

I discovered this spring that we have a hackberry growing on the edge of our yard, but it hasn't produced any berries, as far as I can see.  We are quite far north (above 45 degrees by a good bit), and I suspect we are a somewhat marginal here for hackberries.  It was very late leafing out (the tree surgeon asked in the middle of May if it was dead, because it had no leaves, but by the end of May it was beginning to show leaves).  This tree is very tall and slender, because it's in an overgrown row of trees along the lot line.  Most of the trees are in the vacant lot next door, so I don't mess with them unless they are dangling over our garden or laying on my truck (it's happened).  This tree has one lower branch that's now drooped down out of the canopy and over our clothes line.  Once it leafed out fully, I had thought it might be a walnut-like tree - perhaps one of the less common butternuts - because of the compound-looking leaves, but my sister's phone app promptly identified the leaves as a hackberry, and when I checked the tree book, it was a match.  My old timer retired farmer and engineer neighbor wasn't able to identify it, either, so I didn't feel so bad.  He does have a few black walnuts on his farm, but they are uncommon here.

Maybe berries next year.  Unless hackberries aren't self fertile, and require a nearby "friend".  I am unacquainted with their habits.

On edit: maybe a "pounder" - a heavy length of wood, with another pestle-like chunk of wood?  Something with closed grain, dense and hard (ironwood? maple?), I'd think.  Anyone know what was used by plains Indians for chokecherry pounders when making pemmican?  Maybe osage orange?

Bogdan -

Here are the photos of the greenhouse my brother built for my nephew.  The lumber was sawn from a large oak tree in my brother's woods which some of the neighborhood kids cut down with an axe (probably just to see if they could).  So, my brother made lemonade from lemons, as they say, and cut up the trunk of the tree into lumber to make the greenhouse.

It would be better if there were some diagonal boards screwed or nailed to the inner chords of the trusses on each side,  but it has been OK so far, even with more than 300 inches of snow last winter.  The photos of the end look like the trusses subtend a bit less than 60 degrees - the triangle that can be inscribed within the arch is more acute than an equilateral triangle.  I suspect there was more spring back of the trusses when they were removed from bending jig than my brother had expected, so the radius increased and the subtended angle decreased.  But, no matter, it still works just fine.