Cécile Stelzer Johnson

Ahmet Oguz Akyuz wrote:Hi there! I have two Layen's style beehives, which I built mostly by following the instructions at https://horizontalhive.com/. This was the second winter for one of the hives, and it was the first one for the other. At the end of October, I thought I was winterizing my hives by putting several layers of fabric on top of the frames including clean undershirts and towels. In one of the hives, I even put a small cushion. All of these materials were placed above the frames and underneath the lid. The lid has two side ventilations and the hive has a screened hole at the bottom to allow airflow. After collecting the honey and making sure to leave the bees a generous amount, I removed the empty frames and put an insulation board to tuck the bees in to one side of the hive (to the side where the entrance is). Finally, I reduced the size of the size of the entrance slit to prevent unnecessary heat loss.

When I arrived at the side today, I was faced with a catastrophe. All bees in both hives were dead. The fabrics in one of the hives were clearly wet. Perhaps rain found a way to get in it couldn't dry out. The top of the frames were all moldy. Even the left-over honey looked quite dark and unusable. The second hive appeared to be dry, but nonetheless the bees were all dead.

Now, a number of things could have gone wrong of course including some kind of infestation. But I was wondering if it was a mistake to use fabric as an insulation. I wonder if it got wet because of rain finding a way in or because of the condensation from within the hive. I would be very happy to hear your advice on this matter -- in particular whether I was doing something bad for the bees in an attempt to keep them warm.

As an extra information, I want to keep bees naturally by providing them good conditions and leaving generous amounts of honey for their consumption, which they make for themselves anyways. I don't want to feed sugar or spray any kind of chemicals. I am not in it for profit, but simply for the joy of keeping bees. My climate is a continental one, with relatively cold winters (can go below 0 degrees Celcius but daytime temperatures are usually around 0-10 degrees Celcius in winter).

As a related question, how can I clean the hive and the frames which got moldy? I hope I don't have to throw them away and start anew -- especially for the hive. My frames are also custom build as the hive dimensions are non-standard. Looking forward to your advice.

Oguz

The fact that you had mold shows that moisture was the culprit. You will have to figure out how that happened. In very cold weather, Layen hives may not perform as well because as heat rises, there is not as much room  for the bees to congregate. Did the workers become separated from the queen? Is pesticide pressure high near you? (I gave up trying to purchase pricey queens and equipment because although people will tell you that a queen can last 2 years, in practice around here (Central WI. zone 4b), Commercial beekeepers replace them in the fall and in the spring. We have problems with not enough drones and drones that are not virile enough, so instead of being properly mated, the queen doesn't have enough to last 2 years.
Maybe it's not a good practice to put those green frames in the hive [They have larger cells, so they accommodate drones better. The queen lays drone eggs in them and when the beekeeper wants to, he can kill all the drones in one fell swoop. Well, then, there are not enough drones in the area to mate with the queens!]
I make sure I have one hive ready to capture a swarm as well as culture that favor pollinators. Sometimes, I get lucky.
To clean your equipment, scrape it as best you can, pressure wash if you must and keep it in the sun or bake it.
We didn't use to have waxworms wintering over because it gets quite cold, but wax worm appeared in 2020 around here. They make tunnels through the wood even. For those, you may want to pick them off if possible. If not, freeze the frames. the bees will clean them up. (But it's a pity to have the bees work on that when they should be making honey). If discovered in the fall, you would have to feed them heavy!

Gordon Longfoot wrote:

We're an hour or two from the NM border depending on which way we go. It's a little over 5,000 ft elevation, but there's pine forest within a 20 minute drive. The soil is red clay and sand, so water runs off. But there's a pond that collected some of that water. I'm somewhat concerned with water rights and grazing my livestock, so swales aren't going to be happening. I built a few half moons out in the field and have been adding manure filled bedding to the small wash that runs across the 40 acres. It's mostly experimental right now. My main goal is to get better soil that holds water instead of trying to block water from leaving the property.

It sounds like you have your work cut out for you. You have a lot or irons in the fire. Be careful  to not tackle too many things at a time. Getting better soil will also happen in blocking water from leaving the property.
Those half moons you dug are, in fact swales. You could make more, or make them deeper? I don't know your laws in AZ, but if the pond is entirely on your property, there shouldn't be problems with your water rights, although reading that you have "a small wash that runs through the property" could cause problems if you prevent *that* water from going to your neighbors. You should also be able to make a few more swales and keep doing what you are doing: Putting spent litter and manure will make them really fertile, so good job, and good luck, Gordon.

Gordon Longfoot wrote:This year I'd like to grow strawberries and raspberries to sell. The problem is we get big wind storms that blow dust around. We're planning to start planting wind blocking trees but that will take a few years to be effective. What are my options for a temporary wind block around a 1/2 acre berry patch?
For the tree's I'm planning to start with 40 low thorn Honey Locusts around the 40 acre perimeter. These will be 2-3' trees and more will be propagated as time goes on. I was also thinking of using a hedge but this is a dry climate with sand and clay in the soil. The monsoon season dumps a good amount of rain on the land then it all drains off. There's been destructive sheep ranching out here since the 19th century. The land is over grazed but I have six months worth of goat, pig, chicken, and rabbit manure piled up.
There's already established Juniper trees. One cluster seems to block the brunt of wind, you still feel a breeze but it's not blowing you around. Long term I want to thin them out but as a temporary wind block I could plant berries around them, if they don't interfere with growth.
The birds and other critters can be a problem. Last year we had all our tomatoes robbed by something. I was thinking a scare crow, because bird netting over 1/2 acre would be expensive and time consuming.
I'm willing to experiment and maybe loose this years crop if it means later on down the road I can make it work.

You have been wise in collecting manure from all your critters. Jay is 100% correct about not *blocking* the wind, just slowing it down. You will get a plus from that : My neighbor doesn't believe in winter crops, so when a strong wind blows, we get an inch or two of his topsoil! If I could block it completely, the wind would go around my property.
You do not indicate how many inches of precipitation you get, but I will assume it's dry. Can you make swales? This way, you would make the most of whatever rain you get.. Your clay would keep that moisture high enough and long enough for your plants to use it, perhaps. You may want to put manure & animal bedding in them to help even more to retain moisture.
As far as birds, have you thought about a sacrificial crop? I was thinking of Sea berry  (Hippophae Rahmnoides) 3-10 ft high, zones 3-8, full of thorns. The fruit are extremely high in vitamin C, A & E. In Europe, the fruit is cultivated. Around here, not so much They come in male and female. Here, they want too much money for them. (Maybe that's why you are thinking of the thorny honey locust)
What is the Ph of your soil?. You may want to think of a bush that grows really well in AZ for the bulk of your perimeter, and will fit your zone and precipitation...
I asked AI about your situation. Here is the answer:
Best bushes for Arizona include drought-tolerant, heat-loving options like Texas Sage, Bougainvillea, Yellow Bells, Hopbush, and Baja Fairy Duster. These, along with Arizona Rosewood and Red Yucca, thrive in full sun, require little water once established, and are excellent for privacy screens or colorful accents.
Top Performing Bushes for Arizona
Evergreen/Screening: Arizona Rosewood (non-poisonous alternative to Oleander), Hopbush (very fast-growing), Creosote (drought-tolerant native), and Jojoba.
Flowering/Color: Texas Sage (blooms after rain), Yellow Bells (trumpet-shaped flowers), Red Bird of Paradise (vibrant summer color), Bougainvillea (vines/shrubs for heat), and Baja Fairy Duster.
Small/Accent: Autumn Sage, Chuparosa (hummingbird favorite), Desert Marigold, and Valentine Bush.
Succulents/Structural: Agave, Yucca, and Ocotillo.
Tips for Success
Planting Season: Fall and winter are the best times to plant to allow roots to establish before summer heat.
Watering: While drought-tolerant, these plants need regular water during their first year and occasional deep watering during summer for maximum growth.
Soil: Ensure well-draining soil to prevent root rot.
Reflected Heat: Choose plants that can handle intense, reflected heat from walls or pavement, such as Natal Plum or Bougainvillea".
(Oh, you can grow agave and Bougainvillea. I'm jealous!). I hope this helps to give you a few ideas

One benefit I do not see listed, and maybe it's because I live in the land of potato growers is protection from the wind.
Here, practically everyone has a row of conifers to the West and north as protection against the wind. The vast plains/fields are windswept and in a cold blizzard , well, it feels good to be behind such a screen. We have all sorts of critters in ours and in our case, we were helped by our red oaks dying (of the wilt). As I cut them down, or they fall down, I moved them to the western edge of our property, along the road in a makeshift Hugel. I say "makeshift" because we could not make a ditch to place them alongside the official ditch, so I placed them on top of the ground. I planted 2 rows of timber running north south and started placing branches/logs there. I had them up to 6ft and more.
With time, they went down and are now only about 4ft high and the timbers have rotted mostly, so I'm considering planting new ones and continuing to add. I have 2 of these, running parallel to each other, N/S.
In between, the snow accumulates and gets trapped, which in our sandbox, is a big plus: We harvest rain and snow  in the in-between and the ditch does not overflow during the melt: It sinks in.
Another plus: the deer travel east west, (From the cornfields to our little forest and back) so by having a 10 ft opening, we can harvest deer that have to pass through.

Linda Johansson wrote:Cecile—I have kept them locked in until later so that I can move the set up while they’re still inside. I don’t care to do that because I keep it basically as full of chickens as I realistically can, so they really need as much outside time as possible so they don’t get crabby and stop laying. Also historically the water has been located outside because the waterer I had, they would roost on top of it and poop in the water. I now have a different water system where that won’t be an issue.
Even in the deep cold of winter (-40 F at times), my first winter my chickens continued to lay nearly an egg a day. This winter there was slightly less but again, I was getting by for the winter with a coop that was a bit small, so when it got super cold and they wouldn’t go outside they felt a bit crowded. Next winter I will have a much more spacious coop which should help with that issue. Interestingly, I find that my chickens are consistently done laying by 2 pm every day, as during those extreme cold snaps I have to collect twice daily to keep eggs from freezing. If I collect at about 8 am and 2 pm, I get all the eggs without the first ones freezing before I can get to them.

Yep: I pick eggs twice too. We don't always get -40F, and with a well insulated coop, frozen eggs are not too much of a problem.
You seem to have figured out that perhaps they are a bit cramped? You said: "I keep it basically as full of chickens as I realistically can,". The "more specious coop" you are planning will take care of any problem, I think.
My 40 birds drink industrial quantities of water, even in the winter. (I had another breed, that would actually eat snow. Not that I'd encourage that ). It's a bit more messy to have a bowl, yes, so I have 2 rubber bowls and I let one go down then change the water, then the other one, inside the coop.
I have noticed that they do not poop in the water that is outside, in shallow metal or plastic pans and get filled once in a while with rain. I have a theory that chickens will perch on the edge of their water bowl if it is too high for them to reach the water from the ground. Mine are indeed too tall, so you gave me a great idea: (Thank you) I'll make a bench, or perhaps sink them into a piece of furniture, a bench or something. so their feet are already close to the level of the water. That should cut down on poop in water...

Linda Johansson wrote:I have honestly not had any issues with hawks or owls, just the occasional raccoon, but I find that if I let them free range completely in the summer I lose too many eggs to the tree rows or haystacks. This is, after all, a business..

Have you tried releasing them a little later in the day? I let them out around 10:00am. That gives me enough time to prepare their troughs and see if there's another chore I'll have to attend to that day, like cleaning the poop boards.
I got this great information from Chicken Guard:
" Although they will lay less often in the winter, when there is not enough light to trigger egg production, when there is enough light to trigger the process, the time to make the egg will be the same length it is in summer, about 26 hours.

If they are very cold in the winter, they will also stop laying in order to conserve energy. Laying an egg takes a lot of energy and nutrients. A poor diet is another reason that hens sometimes stop laying or lay less frequently.

Will hens lay eggs during the night? (mine do sometime!)
If the egg is completed during the night, the hen will not lay until morning. Chickens are busy sleeping at night, and they will not wake up to lay an egg, but gather the strength and energy they need to lay the egg first thing in the morning.

With an average production cycle of 26 hours, you can see that your hen will not lay at the exact same time from one day to the next. In fact, they will lay a few hours later each day. Since their reproductive cycle is triggered by light, they will eventually lay late enough in the day that it will not be light enough to trigger a new cycle to start. In this case, the next egg will not start to form until the following morning. Which means there will be no egg laid until the following day.

I'll second Dennis B. on that one: "Build big.  You can always block off part if it is too much, but the chicken math does come into play at some point."

Yep: when you have only 10 birds or so, you may question the wisdom (and expense) of building for 50 birds, but then you realize that it would be nice to store all the feed, hay, straw, charcoal, grit, calcium, extra feeders/ waterers, buckets, hoses, incubators and sled (to travel the water to the coop if it's too far) and you will think:  
"Why did I build so small? Now, I will need to build another coop", so the savings just evaporated... It is usually  more expensive to build 2 structures than one larger one.

In a larger building, you may eventually choose to raise other critters too: In the overhang that I used for honey bees (that keep dying with the neighbors spraying) I can now store other stuff... Repurpose...

Well, Rowan, first, welcome to Permies. Yep, it's smart to ask others ahead of you on that path what they would have done different.
Not knowing exactly what your goals are or how cold your winters get, I can only give generalities:
1- don't put your coop too far away from the garden or from the house: I have an extension cord so I can put a ceramic heater on the wall. If it was much further, the extension cord would be a real problem to keep them warm or prevent their water from freezing.
2- close to the garden, so it's not too much of a chore to bring them grass, crops grubs, whatever.
3- make it as tight as you can against rodents: technically, rodents could still walk in through the trap door, but once  they are in there, there is no clutter, nowhere  to hide so roosters and hens can kill them.
4- If it gets quite cold where you live, insulate the building: Insulation is cheap. Cold chickens (or hot chickens as they are even more sensitive to the heat) eat more.
5- I used to have my perches lean against the wall. No more: You always have some chickens that get pooped on. I built a set of 3 big wide shelves in the center  of the room, covered with an easy cleaning PVC sheet (Like the make shower walls with) about 6" above those, is where I have my perches. They are 2X4 and slanted so they can grip them better. By making 3 shelves in the middle of the coop, I can walk all around for the cleanup, have more perches and  I have seriously multiplied their roosting space. I clean the 3 shelves scrupulously once a week and the pure manure can be placed anywhere I want for aging, laying on mulch etc.
5- I have a "winter run". It's a hoop house attached to the main building with just a trap door allowing them to come and go. They are warm and comfy at night, but during rainy/ snowy days, it's handy to have an area just a bit bigger than the coop, with no floor (It's very sandy here) where they can stretch, dustbathe while I can change their litter. I offer some food in there too as well as grit and oyster shells. Gutters work well so they can all eat at the same time: I had round feeders and once I increased the number of birds, it just wasn't adequate. The winter run is opened every morning and closed every night so they can forage outside, weather permitting, under all the fruit trees. I recover the water from the roof and have a number of bowls that fill up in the rain or that I fill up from a barrel attached to the coop.
I have 40 birds in there, and I wish I had a larger coop yet so I could place their feed inside. There is an attic, but it's dusty and I don't care to crawl up there: It's more of a crawl space. (at 77, I'm not going up there!) I only put my 2 incubators there and some transport cages and extra stuff that I use very rarely.
I had built a shelter  for my bees about 20 ft away, and now, that's where I put my chicken stuff, but it would have been better inside.
Do you plan on egg layers or meat chickens?
If you choose Cornish cross, which grow very fast, they should be butchered around 8 weeks, so they will not need laying boxes.  If you keep other chickens long enough that they will lay, you may want to choose your warmest wall to hang the laying boxes, with a narrow (PVC) perch in front: They can jump up to see if the nest is occupied rather than land on the edge of the box and scare a laying hen, but I don't want it to be too comfortable that they might sleep there and poop. There's about 3 ft between the shelves/perches and the laying boxes, so they often get up on the shelves and from there, get in the laying boxes. (serendipity: I had not planned it but it works slick this way.)
I hope this will get you to think a little deeper on specific details of your operation. Keep asking: that's the only way you will know before you make a costly mistake. Let us know how you are coming along with that project. This is just to get you thinking. You will get other ideas as you start.
Oh, When I purchase some chicks, I usually wait until late in the season: Tractor supply will have a sale and let them go after keeping them  (and feeding them) for almost a month. I prefer having those young ones in the coop for the winter: I can keep them warm and toasty and away from any predator in stead of getting them at the same time as everyone and taking them outside when they are still tiny.
Good luck, Rowan...

Christopher Weeks wrote:How often does this happen? I think this is my first time seeing this.

It's a first for me too, although sweet peppers often have another little sweet pepper growing inside the other one. Navel oranges have something similar going on at the blossom end. Strawberries can have convoluted fruit, although not quite like what you have pictured here. Interesting....
Of course, we know that some unfortunate baby twins are born conjoined sometimes, and need a complicated operation to separate them. I have quite a few apple trees and have never seen anything like this. Thanks for the pic!

Mike Barkley wrote:

That looks incredible, Mike. It's really impressive. the contraption looks great! I don't know anything about wind turbines, but getting that kind of speed at 20-22 MPH should generate a lot of electricity. Later in the video, these are decoupled and they do not go as fast. Would it be possible to add the power of all of them?