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forage for chickens | (Read 6247 times) |
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Kathleen Sanderson
Posts: 492
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December 01, 2009, 08:23:05 PM |
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Paul, I'm (slowly  ) thinking out loud here.... I don't think a pile (of compost, manure, or hay) needs oxygen to heat up. Not sure what does cause spontaneous combustion, but the REMEDY for it (or preventive) is making sure there's plenty of air circulating through the pile. I'm just thinking of haystacks that spontaneously combust -- my father used to make sure there was a hole in the middle of a stack of loose hay so it wouldn't heat up too much. (There was still some heat, as I remember sticking my hand down in there to feel it.)
Kathleen
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Joel Hollingsworth
Posts: 1623
zone 10: Oakland, CA
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December 14, 2009, 05:05:08 PM |
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I mentioned woodchips as a material with lots of loft, that will allow air to permeate even a very deep pile.
Commercial operations use some very large windrows, and they remain aerobic if they're set up properly to begin with.
Also, I've read in several places that worms are able to find the "sweet spot" of temperature in a pile that is partly thermophilic and that is well-mulched. Here's a recent blog post where the blogger harvests worms from fairly near the surface of a large outdoor pile, in 4 degree F weather:
http://onestraw.wordpress.com/2009/12/11/4-season-farming-winter-vermicomposting/
I admit it might be difficult to control the chickens' access so that not much food is wasted.
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"the qualities of these bacteria, like the heat of the sun, electricity, or the qualities of metals, are part of the storehouse of knowledge of all men. They are manifestations of the laws of nature, free to all men and reserved exclusively to none." SCOTUS, Funk Bros. Seed Co. v. Kale Inoculant Co.
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paul wheaton
Administrator
Posts: 5600
missoula, montana
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December 15, 2009, 08:23:29 AM |
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As long as we're talking about sawdust and wood chips: A few months ago I was at a woodmill site in missoula where there were piles of wood chips that were 20 to 60 years old. Maybe older. And the wood chips on the surface looked like they might be just a few months old.
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Joel Hollingsworth
Posts: 1623
zone 10: Oakland, CA
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December 15, 2009, 12:15:50 PM |
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Cool...sounds like wood chips are a very durable mulch in mountain desert conditions, when rich sources of fixed nitrogen are kept several feet away and any rain can drain very quickly. I am definitely considering it as a major part of the mulch for an eventual deep-mulched garden bed, to avoid having to bring in straw so often.
Did you dig into the foot of the pile, by any chance, and see how the wood/soil interface looked?
My brother bought some property in Brooklyn recently, and I helped him clean out the back patio, where a fence had fallen. The fence was made of 1x lumber, and had probably been there for a couple years at most, but the bottom quarter-inch of the wood had become soil, with large numbers of worms in it. Maybe one worm every four square inches or so.
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"the qualities of these bacteria, like the heat of the sun, electricity, or the qualities of metals, are part of the storehouse of knowledge of all men. They are manifestations of the laws of nature, free to all men and reserved exclusively to none." SCOTUS, Funk Bros. Seed Co. v. Kale Inoculant Co.
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paul wheaton
Administrator
Posts: 5600
missoula, montana
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December 15, 2009, 01:23:12 PM |
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Did you dig into the foot of the pile, by any chance, and see how the wood/soil interface looked?
I didn't! I should!
I did take pics and video of the mountains of old wood chips.
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TCLynx
Posts: 445
Inland Central Florida, USA
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December 15, 2009, 04:57:40 PM |
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I can say my chickens love the brown turkey figs I have. Turnips are another handy forage crop for chickens as they are easy to grow far beyond my family's willingness to eat them. High in calcium too.
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Jennifer Smith
Posts: 546
Zone 5 South West Missouri
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December 15, 2009, 07:59:55 PM |
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Here is a new one...
if you let luffa dry on the vine and then throw it into the goat pen, she will eat the skin and the chickens will eat the seeds.
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Joel Hollingsworth
Posts: 1623
zone 10: Oakland, CA
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December 16, 2009, 12:14:09 PM |
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Will the goat eat the vine, as well?
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"the qualities of these bacteria, like the heat of the sun, electricity, or the qualities of metals, are part of the storehouse of knowledge of all men. They are manifestations of the laws of nature, free to all men and reserved exclusively to none." SCOTUS, Funk Bros. Seed Co. v. Kale Inoculant Co.
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FRED
Posts: 5
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January 09, 2010, 10:20:21 PM |
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Chamaecytisus palmensis or tree lucerne/tagaste is great for the chickens, its a heavy seeder, is evergreen and is a legume. It can self sow in warmer parts if thats a problem!
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TCLynx
Posts: 445
Inland Central Florida, USA
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January 10, 2010, 08:49:09 AM |
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Any tips for getting the tagaste to germinate? I got some seeds and the ones I treated the way they recommended by boiling for a few seconds and then planting at the start of the rainy season didn't germinate for me.
See the trick is rainy season's vary in different climates. My rainy season starts during the hot season while some other climates the rainy season starts in the cold season.
Does anyone have info about what conditions the tagaste likes best for germination so I can avoid wasting the other packet of seeds? I think this time I might need to mechanically scarify the seeds.
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Bird
Posts: 251
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January 10, 2010, 10:57:40 AM |
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Any tips for getting the tagaste to germinate? I got some seeds and the ones I treated the way they recommended by boiling for a few seconds and then planting at the start of the rainy season didn't germinate for me.
See the trick is rainy season's vary in different climates. My rainy season starts during the hot season while some other climates the rainy season starts in the cold season.
Does anyone have info about what conditions the tagaste likes best for germination so I can avoid wasting the other packet of seeds? I think this time I might need to mechanically scarify the seeds.
Lynx
not sure if this would work but may be worth a try
from what you said about useing boiling water i assime they need some sort of heat treatment for germination? would putting some seed on a tray into the oven, say after its been turned off work while oven is cooling, could be worth a try but i dont recomend useing your whole pack of seed for experiment
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Anyone who has never made a mistake
has never tried anything new
-ALBERT EINSTEIN-
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TCLynx
Posts: 445
Inland Central Florida, USA
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January 10, 2010, 12:03:13 PM |
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I got the impression from the instructions about the treatment that it was mainly to try and soften up the seed coat and not so much a heat treatment. Basically the seed coat is very hard and shiny/slippery smooth which makes mechanical nicking of the seed coat very tricky. I might have to try again with sand paper or something though since nothing came up with the boiling method. Perhaps I should also pre-sprout them before planting. Sigh.
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FRED
Posts: 5
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January 11, 2010, 04:14:17 PM |
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I,ve had good success by collecting the seed in summer when ready, placing them in a cup of boiling water for 5-6 minutes to soften the seed coat and then sowing into trays. I have heard of the seed being direct sown after treatment though I,ve only ever grown in pots to be transplanted. When I do plant out I always put half a handfull of soil from a grown tagaste to innoculate the soil to enable the roots to begin nitrogen fixing. If you know where a mature tagaste is you can often find seedlings growing around that can be transplanted into pots or directly where you want them to grow.
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TCLynx
Posts: 445
Inland Central Florida, USA
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January 11, 2010, 04:28:18 PM |
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Ok, the packet of seed I have says to use soybean/cowpea inoculant so I'll use some of that since I've never seen any Tagasaste growing around here or if I had, I wouldn't know it since I don't know what it looks like, I haven't been able to find any pictures.
Hum, boil for 5-6 minutes, the packet here says one minute, maybe I'll try boiling longer then. I've taken a nail file to about ten seeds and am trying to sprout them in paper towel. I still have some seeds in the pack I'll try boiling longer.
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Joel Hollingsworth
Posts: 1623
zone 10: Oakland, CA
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January 12, 2010, 01:12:19 PM |
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TCLynx:
I don't think they should be boiled for any great length of time. I would guess 5 minutes at a rolling boil would kill them all.
I took Fred's recommendation to be: pour a cup of boiling water. Add seeds. After 5 minutes, drain.
If they are anything like Western redbud, the heat treatment does activate the seeds, an adaptation to their role as post-wildfire pioneers.
I hear lots of legumes germinate more quickly with a sprinkling of ash, perhaps for similar reasons.
One last notion: has any alfalfa rotted in the soil you're sowing into? The two species might be closely related enough that alfalfa's anti-germination chemicals are working against you. It might be worth making up a potting mix with no legume content to grow the plants in for a few months.
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"the qualities of these bacteria, like the heat of the sun, electricity, or the qualities of metals, are part of the storehouse of knowledge of all men. They are manifestations of the laws of nature, free to all men and reserved exclusively to none." SCOTUS, Funk Bros. Seed Co. v. Kale Inoculant Co.
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TCLynx
Posts: 445
Inland Central Florida, USA
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January 12, 2010, 01:53:21 PM |
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Alfalfa isn't really easy to grow down here. I have used alfalfa pellets as fertilizer before though.
The first batch I tried I simply dropped into boiling water for about a minute and drained as the package recommended. None of them came up, they were planted in potting mix/worm castings.
This time I took an emery board to ten of the seeds and then put them in wet paper towel in a sandwich container on top of the aquarium light (worked well for hot pepper seeds.) I can see that at least one seed has taken in some water and split the seed coat further so perhaps chitting this way will work and as soon as I see sign that some are actually germinating, I'll put into the potting mix I have standing by with some soybean inoculant as well as some cowpea inoculant since I have both on hand here in the south. Will see if I can get some seedlings going. This sounds like it might be nice fodder to have on hand for the chickens since they don't seem to like the duckweed or the moringa.
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FRED
Posts: 5
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January 13, 2010, 03:23:25 AM |
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Sorry if my info wasn't clear, I wouldn't boil it for five minutes but put in cup of boiled water and then drain.
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Ken Peavey
Administrator
Posts: 513
8b/9a N FLorida
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January 13, 2010, 07:26:52 AM |
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My ladies enjoy a salad as often as I can offer them one-greens from the garden and weeds of every sort. Diversity seems to please them. Arugula, mustard, chard, dandelion, whatever is handy. Greens will grow quickly putting the leaves back in reach after the hens tear off a bite.
What about poisonous plants spoken of in other threads. Give the birds a medicine cabinet within reach.
Lots of variety in a small space in 3 dimensions. Herbs, greens, grains, flowers, taller plants, creeping vines, fruit trees. A chicken biotope?
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Be the change you want to see. Reduce, Reuse, Recycle, Replenish, Repair, Recover and Rejoice.
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Jennifer Smith
Posts: 546
Zone 5 South West Missouri
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January 13, 2010, 08:40:59 AM |
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In case some are missing it, on the fake maple syrup thread they are talking about milo's ability to regrow a second crop.
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TCLynx
Posts: 445
Inland Central Florida, USA
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July 22, 2010, 09:37:18 AM |
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Poultry can use up the forage in a 25 by 25 area fairly quickly, if they are not being moved around to new areas, I expect you will need to be providing supplemental feed. I had 6 chickens use up most of the usable forage in a 100 foot by 20 foot space in a matter of weeks and I was providing free choice commercial feed and scratch on occasion.
As for the babies, well I know many commercial starter feeds has medications in it. I always avoid those since I also raise ducks and the medication would probably be the wrong dosage for the way ducks eat/drink and could harm them. But I do tend to get a bag of starter for the higher protein when I have new chicks/ducklings.
I would love to avoid all commercial feeds but I'm a soft touch and have always tended to provide free choice feeds in addition to letting them have as much space as I can for foraging.
If the birds are not laying, there are many reasons that could cause it. Molting, stress, or just not enough protein. My hens usually lay much better the day after I give them yogurt.
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Joel Hollingsworth
Posts: 1623
zone 10: Oakland, CA
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July 23, 2010, 08:13:54 PM |
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In case some are missing it, on the fake maple syrup thread they are talking about milo's ability to regrow a second crop.
That's much more likely for certain varieties. I seem to recall Mennonite sorghum being bred for that ability.
Genes from these "ratooning" varieties are expected to be important in the development of perennial sorghum, eventually.
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"the qualities of these bacteria, like the heat of the sun, electricity, or the qualities of metals, are part of the storehouse of knowledge of all men. They are manifestations of the laws of nature, free to all men and reserved exclusively to none." SCOTUS, Funk Bros. Seed Co. v. Kale Inoculant Co.
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 articles by paul wheaton: [diatomaceous earth] [Sepp Holzer] [cast iron] [flea control]
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Thanks!!!
