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Just Getting Started... | (Read 327 times) |
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CastyMcWrinkles
Posts: 5
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July 21, 2009, 06:25:54 AM |
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I just happened to stumble across Paul's website, and thus this forum, as I was looking for a way to stop using chemicals to kill the weeds in my "lawn". A little background:
- I was recently married in December and through that inherited a lawn that has been very neglected. Because of this neglect, the weeds are overtaking our yard and the neighbors can't be too pleased.
- I live in West Michigan
- My house is just over a mile from Lake Michigan, as the crow flies, so my soil is very sandy. I don't have much topsoil, in fact, there are spots in my front lawn that is just dirty sand. I have patches of what looks like it could be grass but it is very sparse.
- Weeds - in the spring I had a nice collection of dandelions, and right now I have buckhorn plantains galore with some other weeds that I haven't identified yet.
My wife and I took the little one for a walk a few weeks ago and when we came back to our house, the yard was such a mess that I was shamed into doing something. Knee jerk reaction, I just went out and bought some round up to spray but while doing that, I just got the feeling that there has to be a better, more natural way to take care of my grass.
I would like to follow your advice about letting the grass grow, and choke out the weeds, but I have such little grass that I feel like I have a different starting point. So I guess that is my question. Where do I start? Would I be best served trying to establish some topsoil? I have a compost pile in the back yard that I can use, but it isn't nearly enough to spread around the whole yard. Also the local extension offers soil testing for a fee, should I have that done as well? Just looking for a starting point. Thanks.
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jeremiah bailey
Posts: 338
Zone 5b - Central Indiana Suburban Subdivision
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July 21, 2009, 01:55:39 PM |
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Do the soil test. Start mowing, as often as you can, at no lower than the recommended 3". Make sure you're mulching your clippings back into the grass. The majority of weeds don't like this, but grass loves it. Can you get some pics posted? Get some of the lawn in general, close-up of some problem spots, and of a shovelful to show your soil layers from grass to base soil. Those would help give some more detailed suggestions. Also, some others may be able to identify your other weeds.
Vinegar is a good herbicide. Spot treat with it as you would roundup. Give your roundup to the local tox-a-way day. Once fall sets, start fertilizing your grass patches, spreading just past the grass. This should encourage the grass to grow and spread naturally. Use an organic lawn food. Ringers and Scott's organic are most common. Top the bare spots with about 1/2-1" compost, and rake in some grass seed. Keep the seed bed moist daily until the grass is established. Do this at the beginning of fall when you're feeding your grass patches. Summer is your grass' dormant period and watering, fertilizing and seeding are futile. You just won't get much bang for your buck and time doing anything during summer. So relax, get your plans together for fall, and sip some lemonade.
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"Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it." - Helen Keller
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Jeremiah Bailey
Central Indiana
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paul wheaton
Administrator
Posts: 4459
missoula montana
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July 21, 2009, 03:20:47 PM |
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As for me, I'm happy to answer any questions, but first I need to hear you say that you will never use roundup or any other pesticide ever again.
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CastyMcWrinkles
Posts: 5
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July 21, 2009, 06:42:00 PM |
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You've got it Paul, I will never use any nasty chemicals like round up ever again. Even if you don't help, I refuse to use junk like that again. I think that there are a lot of people out there like me, that just don't know better at first but when they learn better, alternative ways of doing things, they get embarassed.
That being said, I took some pictures to help with the advice giving. The first picture is an overall picture of the front yard. The backyard isn't pretty, but I would like to concentrate on getting the front yard up and running then focusing on the backyard, which honestly I wouldn't mind half of it going wild, but that's another story for another day.
The second pic is kind of an up close that is the epitome of the front yard - sandy ant hills with sparse sprinkling of grass.
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CastyMcWrinkles
Posts: 5
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July 21, 2009, 06:46:54 PM |
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I also got the shovel out and was surprised to see so much dark top soil. Looks like 4-5 inches but that is just an estimate, I can take a measurement if it will help.
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 topsoil.jpg (169.57 KB, 800x600 - viewed 109 times.)
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buddy110
Posts: 64
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July 21, 2009, 07:11:45 PM |
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When using vinager add a drop or two of dish soap. It works as a surficant and sticks better to the leaf of the undesired weed thus killing it quicker/ better
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jeremiah bailey
Posts: 338
Zone 5b - Central Indiana Suburban Subdivision
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July 21, 2009, 07:56:24 PM |
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buddy110, that makes sense. Kinda like an insecticidal soap, but for killing plants. Good idea.
That is a bunch of nice looking topsoil. Just out of curiosity, no hating here, did you use the roundup to produce all those bare spots? Just trying to build a background to help your lawn. If you did, follow the recommended re-seeding waiting time on the label. After that time is up, you should have some grass spreading back into those areas. You can speed it up with some seed covered lightly with compost.
I'm previously guilty of the roundup mistake. I still have the bottle in my garage, just haven't had time to go to tox-a-way as it always falls in the middle of my work shift.
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"Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it." - Helen Keller
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Jeremiah Bailey
Central Indiana
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CastyMcWrinkles
Posts: 5
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July 22, 2009, 04:14:35 AM |
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Vinegar is a good herbicide. Spot treat with it as you would roundup.
Is the regular vinegar strong enough to kill the weeds? It seems that I've read in my recent organic lawn care journey that someone recommended an industrial strength vinegar.
buddy110, that makes sense. Kinda like an insecticidal soap, but for killing plants. Good idea.
That is a bunch of nice looking topsoil. Just out of curiosity, no hating here, did you use the roundup to produce all those bare spots? Just trying to build a background to help your lawn. If you did, follow the recommended re-seeding waiting time on the label. After that time is up, you should have some grass spreading back into those areas. You can speed it up with some seed covered lightly with compost.
I haven't used the round up that much to create those bare spots, those were pretty much there already, but I did make it worse. When the time comes though, I will be sure to follow the recommendations and keep you posted. I will get the soil submitted for tesing, hopefully by the end of the week.
Also you recommended getting the seeding and fertilizing going in the fall. Does that mean when the weather starts to cool off a bit or actually September 21? I guess it usually doesn't cool off until then anyway, but just for some guidance. Thanks for your help so far.
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paul wheaton
Administrator
Posts: 4459
missoula montana
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July 22, 2009, 09:15:37 AM |
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It might just be the picture, but it seems to me there is something creepy about the soil surface.
I think a soil test would be wise. Let's find out what is going on here.
Outside of that, I think the important next step is to wait until september.
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CastyMcWrinkles
Posts: 5
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July 22, 2009, 07:01:34 PM |
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Quick question about mowing, then I will leave you guys alone until I get the soil test results back. All I would be mowing at this point is weeds. The grass is shorter than three inches and isn't growing, so if I mow the weeds and leave the clippings for mulch, won't that just spread the weeds that I already have? Or does the weeds' ability to reproduce die when they are mowed? I've included a picture of one of my buckhorn patches for a visual.
The topsoil - I think it looks weird too which is why I was surprised that my digging revealed a layer of dark soil. Like you've said, the test results should answer the mystery.
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Jeremy Bunag
Posts: 183
Workin' Central IL converted farmland
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July 23, 2009, 07:25:12 AM |
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The weeds you mow will reproduce if they have (or can still make in a last ditch effort) seedheads...but that's fine. Why not let something greenish fill in the bare spots? Let them have their way over summer: covering and holding the dirt that would otherwise erode away, and shooting roots in and breaking up soil, adding organic material, etc. And what isn't seedhead is mulch - good to have no matter what it originally was.
Whatever may spread over the summer you'll be working to claim back over the fall and subsequent years.
Here's the way I look at it:
- Worst possible situation: nothing growing, bare dirt
- Let the weeds win the battle for the first taking of bare dirt, since it's the summer. They'll cover bare dirt and "save it" for when you're ready to get your desirable plants in.
- Over the course of the "war" your overall covered and green lawn (a great place to be no matter what percentage is desired) will have the tide turn from low % desirables to higher every growing season with this site's suggestions.
- By the end, you will have created a space that favors your desirables, and few weeds will be able to take opportunistic vectors to get into your lawn. Those remaining uglies might require some more work (mechanical or otherwise), which is what can be chatted about here. But getting the grass/desirables happy lets them win over most weeds.
So: Mow away!
-Jeremy
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paul wheaton
Administrator
Posts: 4459
missoula montana
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July 23, 2009, 09:40:17 AM |
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When the weeds are mowed, their amputated parts turn into organic matter for the soil. And weeds don't like to be mowed - it weakens them.
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paul wheaton
Administrator
Posts: 4459
missoula montana
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July 24, 2009, 09:21:28 AM |
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I'm gonna stick with keeping your mower set high. And then just clip the tops off of the weeds once in a while until fall gets here.
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Joel Hollingsworth
Posts: 1097
zone 10: Oakland, CA
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September 28, 2009, 01:02:15 PM |
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I wonder what the tests said, and if the neghborhood's lawns are waking up...Casty?
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"the qualities of these bacteria, like the heat of the sun, electricity, or the qualities of metals, are part of the storehouse of knowledge of all men. They are manifestations of the laws of nature, free to all men and reserved exclusively to none." SCOTUS, Funk Bros. Seed Co. v. Kale Inoculant Co.
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