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March 11, 2010, 06:27:27 PM

Permaculture Forums | permaculture | permaculture | Topic: Fukuoka-Bonfils winter wheat method for chicken feed

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Fukuoka-Bonfils winter wheat method for chicken feed

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paul wheaton
Administrator
Posts: 4469

missoula montana

May 01, 2009, 10:17:05 AM

This was posted earlier:

www.metafro.be/leisa/2000/164-13.pdf

Excellent stuff.

My big question is: what would be the variety of wheat of choice?

This clearly isn't gonna work well for mechanical harvesting. It might even be a bit challenging for scythe style harvesting. But it looks perfect for chickens to harvest themselves.


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[raising chickens] [diatomaceous earth] [Sepp Holzer] [rocket mass heater] [cast iron]

paul wheaton
Administrator
Posts: 4469

missoula montana

May 01, 2009, 10:32:44 AM

I tried to do a bit of math with the provided table ....

With a traditional system, one seed of wheat gives you an average of 375 grains of wheat.

With this alternative syste, one seed of wheat gives you an average of 6250 grains of wheat.

I suppose it is wise for most operations to plant their wheat much closer together so that it grows straight and tall for the combine.

FYI: there are about 15,000 grains of wheat in a pound.


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Susan Monroe
Posts: 1093

Western WA

May 04, 2009, 12:24:11 AM

"My big question is: what would be the variety of wheat of choice?"

I think your choice would be determined by what varieties grow best in your climate, and what the final use would be.

Here is the list of Washington 2009 Preferred Winter Wheat Varieties: http://www.washingtongrainalliance.com/images/E0177801/WtrPrfVar094Web.pdf

One site said that hard winter wheats are generally high in protein, averaging 13-15%, and the soft white wheats tend to be lower in protein, averaging 11-12%. Since protein levels are important to egg production, a lower protein level might have to be compensated for elsewhere in the diet.

The third issue would be sourcing what you decide on. The easiest winter wheat to find around here in bulk seems to be hard red winter wheat. Since I suspect that the Bonfil method has not been widely studied, choice of varieties may require some experimentation, esp since I believe that wheat is mostly grown in WA on the east side of the Cascades.

If I understand the Bonfil method correctly, he only plants a maximum of four seeds per square meter/yard. Would this involve pelletizing the seed so it wouldn't be eaten by birds and rodents, or would the plants be started in pots, and transplanted at the desired spacing?

The last paragraph of the article you linked mentioned that "A problem of the wheat-clover association is that the wheat grows too tall because of the richness in soil Nitrogen. Sowing wide, permitting maximum sunshine and thus reducing the risk of lodging of the wheat, can counteract this."

If the wheat is being self-harvested by the chickens, lodging would not be much of a problem, and might even be a benefit.

Sue


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d36csr
Posts: 9

August 21, 2009, 07:35:23 AM

Regarding varieties, the Harmonious Wheatsmith by Mark Moodie specifies the following characteristics:
"Varieties pre-dating 1826, long straw, strong vegetative vigour, broad area of side-shooting, high resistance to cold, very late maturity, pure winter type, floral initiation requiring at least 6-700^o T-Sum, large leaf area for better photosynthesis, absence of carbon starvation and highly developed roots to avoid drying of immature grain, 1 part above ground, 2 parts below.

Such varieties are; ble siegle (or Bled Siegle or Ralet); Autumn Victoria (victoria d'Automne); Prince Alber; Autmn Chiddam; Golden Top; Dattel; Sharrif Squarehead; Poulard d'Auvergne; The Giant Squareheaded Hybrid Wheat (tritical 1907); Schlanstedt Rye.
Trials have also begun with Dinkel; Champlein; Red Standard; Chidham Red and White Chaff (related to Chiddam?); Squarehead Master; Percival's blue cone; and Maris Wigeon.

Oats being tried include Radnorshire Sprig; land oat; ceirch du Bach; Cornish; Old Cornish and Hen Gardie.


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paul wheaton
Administrator
Posts: 4469

missoula montana

January 28, 2010, 11:34:06 AM

(bump)


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marina phillips
Posts: 544

zone 7, southern cascades, n. california

January 28, 2010, 02:27:53 PM

I have the harmonious wheat smith booklet, and the author got his seed samples from the john inne's center. I haven't had much luck finding those varieties from any commercial sources (shocking, I know). I went to the John Inne's website, someone said you can request seeds for research? Can just ANYone request seeds for research or do you need to be a "researcher" with credentials? It looks very....scientific and professional. I guess you never know unless you ask.

My questions for Larry Korn about this are:

Could different crops be grown in the same field in different seasons (something that mimics fukuoka's planting pattern)? Those old varieties of wheat are said to be really vigorous, do you think they would out-compete anyone but themselves?

I'm wondering if you could get a crop of say, interplanted barley, at the end of the summer, while the wheat seedlings stay put for their winter rest.

It seems like a central part of the idea is to give the wheat seed a bunch of personal space to encourage a huge root system, would giving it neighbors of a different species encroach on that process?

I think Bon-fils also said that making clay seed balls for his process would slow down the wheat germination too much. What do you think about that?


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Proper prior planning prevents piss-poor propagated plant performance, probably.

jeremiah bailey
Posts: 338

Zone 5b - Central Indiana Suburban Subdivision

January 28, 2010, 02:48:10 PM

This idea makes me think that it'd be worth looking into having a chicken range that is inter-planted with wheat and other delicacies for the chickens. Envision a meadow for chickens.


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"Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it." - Helen Keller
--
Jeremiah Bailey
Central Indiana

larry korn
Posts: 79

January 28, 2010, 05:22:44 PM

Thanks for siting the article about the Bonfil method. I hadn't read about it before. I don't have that much experience in very cold climates but I can share my impression. Then, with your input, we can keep up the discussion.

If he plants in late June and harvests in August, presumably he sows the next year's crop among the ripening grain. With clover growing on the surface to enrich the soil and hold back weeds and the large root mass of the wheat it is hard to imagine that one could intercrop another grain or other crop in succession in the same field. In The Natural Way of Farming Fukuoka goes into great detail about how he worked his rice/barley succession. The barley was much easier. The hard part was to figure out how to sow the rice and get it to overwinter and sprout successfully the following spring. The barley did not need seed balls. Eventually he realized that the rice, sown in the fall, did. At first he had two different methods for the rice and barley. After about ten years of trial and error it turned out that the seeding methods for both grains turned out to be almost the same...except for the need for the seed balls for the rice. He scattered the seed into the clover and covered them with straw from the previous crop.

Bonfil's method seems intuitively sound. There is no shortcut to trying it yourself and observing the outcome. One thing Fukuoka emphasized is that modern agriculture sees what didn't work and tries to fix it. Natural farming see what did work and goes in that direction.


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The ultimate goal of natural farming is not simply growing crops but the cultivation and perfection of human beings. Masanobu Fukuoka

larry korn
Posts: 79

January 28, 2010, 05:25:09 PM

Marina, Where do you live in Northern California? The Siskiyous near Mt. Shasta, Ft. Jones and Yreka? Near Mt. Lassen? McCloud? or as far south as Oroville and Chico?


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www.onestrawrevolution.net
The ultimate goal of natural farming is not simply growing crops but the cultivation and perfection of human beings. Masanobu Fukuoka

marina phillips
Posts: 544

zone 7, southern cascades, n. california

January 28, 2010, 05:52:17 PM

Thank you for the answer Larry! I agree, there's nothing like giving it the ol' college try, so to speak. We have a really nice lower field on the land that could be irrigated with a pond catchment system, and I'm determined to figure out a way to grow grain down there. We have a perennial vetch to deal with first....or figure out some way of incorporating it....but it grows so thickly and quickly. Hmph.

I'm smack dab in the middle on a line drawn between Mt. Shasta and Mt. Lassen.


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Proper prior planning prevents piss-poor propagated plant performance, probably.

larry korn
Posts: 79

January 28, 2010, 06:20:58 PM

Perennial vetch? There's a challenge...or an opportunity.


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www.onestrawrevolution.net
The ultimate goal of natural farming is not simply growing crops but the cultivation and perfection of human beings. Masanobu Fukuoka

Joel Hollingsworth
Posts: 1098

zone 10: Oakland, CA

January 28, 2010, 08:18:07 PM

Quote from: marina phillips on January 28, 2010, 05:52:17 PM

We have a really nice lower field on the land that could be irrigated with a pond catchment system, and I'm determined to figure out a way to grow grain down there. We have a perennial vetch to deal with first....

How does it like wet feet?

If being flooded knocks it back, but doesn't kill it, that sounds like quite an opportunity to grow rice.


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"the qualities of these bacteria, like the heat of the sun, electricity, or the qualities of metals, are part of the storehouse of knowledge of all men. They are manifestations of the laws of nature, free to all men and reserved exclusively to none." SCOTUS, Funk Bros. Seed Co. v. Kale Inoculant Co.

marina phillips
Posts: 544

zone 7, southern cascades, n. california

January 28, 2010, 10:27:22 PM

I've considered rice as a grain to try in some kind of yearly rotation. We have the most porous soil EVER (volcanic silt), but I guess Fukuoka didn't use permanently flooded fields, right? Did he have to find specific (old) rice varieties to pull that off? Tons of "wild" rice is grown on the plateau east of us.


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Proper prior planning prevents piss-poor propagated plant performance, probably.

larry korn
Posts: 79

January 28, 2010, 11:28:00 PM

The parent rock in your area is so diverse that it is hard to say what the soil is like on that next valley next to you. When you say volcanic silt I'm guessing it is what they call andacitic (spelling?) tuff which is blown right out the top of the volcano when it erupts, as opposed to basalt which oozes as lava. Is it light brown? Anyway, Fukuoka does hold water in his fields for about a week or so in the spring to slow the clover and give the rice a chance to get a jump on it. Conditions are so different where you are that it is likely your rotation will be quite different from his.

A great soil-building crop in rotation is buckwheat. It is easy to grow but needs a little water. During the winter think mustard and radish family, with grasses and legumes in the mix. Oh yes, you already have plenty of vetch. Start with one grain crop then add a second if you think you can. Water is the issue. Winter grains are usually easier in Northern California, again, it's the water...and the heat, but mainly water. You live in a very beautiful region!


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www.onestrawrevolution.net
The ultimate goal of natural farming is not simply growing crops but the cultivation and perfection of human beings. Masanobu Fukuoka

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