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Chicken coop insulation? | (Read 926 times) |
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JimH
Posts: 2
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April 09, 2009, 10:11:49 AM |
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We are new to chickens and I will be building a coop in the next few weeks. We would like to accommodate perhaps a dozen layers (and retirees) in perhaps a 10x12 coop on a cement slab. (Presumably building on a slab will ease cleanup and ensure floor longevity). We liven in central Wisconsin where it is below freezing for months. I see mixed messages about coop insulating. One theory is that chickens can cope with the cold and by insulating you can increase moisture (and the chance of health risks). But I also see that you have to be very careful about drafts if you don't insulate.
Any advice on how to handle this in a new coop?
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paul wheaton
Administrator
Posts: 4538
missoula montana
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April 09, 2009, 10:48:57 AM |
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Oh my.
It is maddening how somebody can ask a simple question and my answer could fill a book or two.
So ... trying to keep it short ....
First, most chickens will be fine without any insulation.
Second, the chickens will require less feed and be generally healthier if they can stay warm (and some insulation could help with that).
Now for some obnoxious opinions ...
I am at odds with myself.
On the one hand, I really like the idea of a portable coop. Something really small that I can drag around. That way, the chickens do not destroy one area, and I never have to clean the coop. Each time I spend 45 seconds dragging it, the coop is at a fresh spot. The old spot has a whole lot of chicken poop and will thrive over the following year.
On the other hand, Sepp's shelters are quick, easy and on really cold days are quite warm to the animals inside them.
I think that for chickens, I would stick with portable shelters. And I would seal and insulate three sides rather completely and one side would have an open door, and an opposite side would have a small hole for ventilation. I think I would want to size the roosting area to hold just the right number of birds - they can keep each other warm better if there isn't a lot of extra space.
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Kathleen Sanderson
Posts: 361
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April 09, 2009, 07:21:56 PM |
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It can get pretty chilly here in the winter (had ten below last winter), and in New Hampshire, where I lived for a number of years (can get down to thirty below there), and then there is the Interior of Alaska, where I kept chickens in a drafty shed, which also housed a couple of milk goats and some caged meat rabbits...some of the chickens lost toes there, at seventy below and howling winds. So chickens don't NEED insulation. If you use insulation, you'll also need ample ventilation, as the biggest danger to livestock is ammonia fumes in the air, not the cold. Keep them dry and out of the wind, and they can stand a great deal of cold.
One thing that will help is to choose breeds that are better-suited to cold weather, such as Wyandottes, Rose-comb Rhode Island Reds, Chanteclers, and so on. You want small combs (pea combs are best, rose combs next best, then small single combs -- avoid birds like Leghorns with their large combs even on the hens). You also want fluffy feathers and large body size, as the larger body size retains heat better. (For someone in a hot climate, the opposite is recommended -- smaller animals have more surface area to dissipate heat for the amount of mass.) When we got our chickens in Alaska, I got some Light Brahmas, thinking they would be really good in that climate -- they meet all the criteria; pea comb, large body size, fluffy feathering for good insulation. But they have feathered feet. At that time, I mistakenly thought that the feathering on the feet would help keep them warm. Instead it collected droppings which froze to the feet -- they suffered more foot damage than the clean-legged breeds I had.
As long as your chickens are well-fed, and you make sure they have water rather than ice to drink at least two or three times a day (use a heated waterer if you can run electricity to their pen), they should do just fine for you.
However, if you want poultry that are really well adapted to cold weather, choose ducks and geese. They are much more cold-hardy than chickens are, and some ducks lay better than chickens, too. They are messier in the winter -- when we had geese in that little shed in Alaska, we had stalactites and stalagmites of ice all around the rubber water dish where the geese dipped their heads in the water and then shook their heads!
I've been keeping my chickens in all-wire chicken tractors for the last few years, and they work well. I can put the chicken manure where I want it without having to hurt my back, LOL! We have to keep the birds contained here, as we have close neighbors, and the tractors seem to work best for us. I keep them mostly covered with a tarp; in summer I just lift the edges so they have shade and good ventilation. Even the three White Leghorn hens haven't suffered any comb damage, and it got down to ten below last winter. The only serious danger here is stray dogs, who could get into the tractors if they were determined enough (don't use chicken wire to keep predators out, as both dogs and raccoons can tear holes in that stuff).
Kathleen
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Susan Monroe
Posts: 1093
Western WA
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April 09, 2009, 08:38:37 PM |
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As Paul pointed out, there are many facets to that question!
What temperatures they can survive and what temperatures they will be moderately comfortable in, can be two different things.
Excess cold and excess heat are forms of stress, as are low-quality feed, lack of water, fear, etc.
Insulating the coop and carefully calculating the size of the coop with the correct number of chickens, and you probably wouldn't have to have added heat. Never insulate with styrofoam that isn't completely covered, as they will eat it.
Ventilation is one thing, drafts are another.
Choice of breed would be important... a heavy breed would be better than a smaller, light one; an heirloom, good-forager type would be better than a factory-farmed/highly domesticated show breed.
I learned the expensive way that you can have a light, portable tractor, or you can have a strong, tight, predator-proof coop, but you can't have both in one. If it's strong enough to keep out dogs and raccoons, it's too heavy to move, even with wheels. And when it's too heavy to move, it doesn't get moved. After four years, I finally broke down and built my girls a coop. In four years, this is the first winter that they have laid eggs between September and May. That alone told me a lot. Stress is stress.
Your feed will have to be high-quality and possibly have a higher protein level. I'm sure there are books containing this information.
Sue
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Kathleen Sanderson
Posts: 361
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April 09, 2009, 10:43:16 PM |
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I agree with Susan that the portable 'coops' can't be made entirely predator-proof, and also that it's probably more stressful to the birds to keep them in chicken tractors over the winter, but am surprised that hers stop laying for so long. Mine only quit for a few weeks in the worst weather, and I'm willing to allow them that much of a break. (And our climate is colder than western Washington, so it's not because we have a milder climate!) I would prefer to have mine in a sturdy, dog-proof coop, but because I don't own the property, I can't really build permanent structures, so we make do.
Kathleen
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JimH
Posts: 2
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April 10, 2009, 06:32:23 AM |
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Thanks for all the feedback so far. After reading this, and talking with a few others in my area, I am not planning on insulating and will focus on blocking drafts (while providing adequate ventilation). BTW, I should have mentioned that we are hoping to get Buckeyes, which seem to be cold hardy.
Regarding the floor, I am leaning away from cement. I think the contenders are wood or dirt. One concern is making it predator proof. We do have coyotes in the area. We were hoping to not put up a bunch of fencing and letting the hens roam, so I don't think fencing is a solution. Wouldn't it be difficult to secure a dirt floor?
If we went with a wood floor, is there benefit in elevating the coop so the hens could use it for shade during the summer?
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paul wheaton
Administrator
Posts: 4538
missoula montana
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April 10, 2009, 08:41:25 AM |
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I cannot imagine keeping chickens without a Great Pyr dog around.
In fact, without a great pyr, I think of any chicken setup as a predator feeder.
With a great pyr around, many aspects of farming become much easier. Most farms fail, and I think this aspect is probably the #1 reason.
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Susan Monroe
Posts: 1093
Western WA
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April 10, 2009, 06:15:37 PM |
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Instead of permanent fencing, look into portable electric mesh fencing, and take it with you when you move. Here is one brand, I'm sure there are others: http://www.maxflex.com/Nets_page1.HTM
I have a small coop that is elevated about 3 ft off the ground. The girls stay in it at night and when the snow covers the grass. I have a fairly light ramp that is lifted up and propped against the coop at night. Since the area underneath tends to stay quite dry, the girls often use it for their dust baths.
If I had to keep birds in a smallish pen, I would cover the floor with several inches of straw or hay. If you scatter scratch over the straw every day, the girls will kick and fluff up the straw looking for it, and keep it quite dry. You'll have to design so you can easily rake it out every week or ten days, depending on how many birds you have. While my coop floor is 3/4" plywood, it is covered with vinyl flooring for easier cleaning. Poop sticks to it, but not like it sticks to wood.
If you're putting a window in it, put it on the south side for some solar gain in winter.
Note: most birds produce between 40 and 55 BTUs per bird per hour, if that is worth anything to you. Standard Leghorns are at the 40 end, and heavy meat-types are at the 55 end.
Sue
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Susan Monroe
Posts: 1093
Western WA
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April 11, 2009, 11:45:06 AM |
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Leah, what dog breeds do you have that you can get away with using an invisible fence?
Sue
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Susan Monroe
Posts: 1093
Western WA
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April 15, 2009, 01:06:38 PM |
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I wouldn't take one as a gift, installed.
People have learned the hard way that many dogs, esp those with a high prey drive, will eventually learn that they they can blow through the warning and the shock.
Once they've learned, the invisible fence is useless. Actually, worse than useless, because once the dog gets out and the attraction disappears, the fence is now keeping the dog from going home. NOW he is paying attention to the warning. That's why you see Lost Dog ads that say the dog is wearing an invisible fence unit on his collar.
The next worst thing about them is that they don't protect anything on your property from incoming animals, like coyotes or the neighbor's vicious pitbull.
They give an false sense of security, and many people rue the day they ever decided to get one.
Sue
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Susan Monroe
Posts: 1093
Western WA
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April 16, 2009, 09:57:11 AM |
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I'm glad it works for you. Most of the people I've talked to said it worked fine for them for quite a while, some a year or more, so the dog DID know what was what. Some of them had acreage encircled with it.
And the ones that did see it happen, saw from the house or somewhere that the dog was just so excited by (and focused on) something on the street (cat, raccoon, kid on bicycle, etc) that they were just moving so fast when they approached the warning spot that they were through it before they realized. One Tervuren stopped when he hit the street, acting stunned that he was actually out there. Then he took off after the cat. After that, it was just a matter of running fast enough (and probably squeezing his eyes shut).
Others said that it never happened when they were home, just when they were gone.
And if anyone gives me one, I'll send it to you! 
Did you check your private messages?
Sue
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