D. Logan

Inge Leonora-den Ouden wrote:

D. Logan wrote:

Inge Leonora-den Ouden wrote:I saw there's a 'bird snare' mentioned.
What exactly do you mean by that?
Here it isn't allowed to catch birds. Only ornithologists with permission can catch birds (alive) for research purposes.

Youtube and many other sites don't allow you to show catching/killing a live animal. This would also have to be done potentially in an apartment, so not a lot of wild birds there. Showing it would be a matter of using a finger or prop to show how the trap would function. I've seen some videos where the person shows how the traps work using small plush toys and one or two where the person just gently presses a finger on the trigger.

Probably I don't understand. Why would I make a trap and try it out with a toy? What's the use of it?
Maybe you didn't understand my reply either. I mean: here in the Netherlands we are not allowed to catch birds. Only certified hunters with a permit are allowed to hunt certain birds, which are considered pests (mainly geese).
There are even activists here who lobby for making a law that cats have to stay indoors, because they kill birds!

Regarding 'game', I noted it as obtain rather than hunt so that those who can't do so for whatever reason are able to simply purchase if they wish. I have known places in the past that will ship a frozen carcass to someone. Similarly working with the fish can be un-gutted whole fish from a market or online.

As to the purpose of proving the trap as functional rather than actively making use of it to catch a live animal is because it proves you do have the skill to do so. If I make a chair, but never sit in it, it remains a functional chair. My thinking here is that if you can show the ability to make a functional trap, the act of trapping an animal is not really vital. It's just a demonstration of knowledge and works as a springboard to do PEP if you wish to do actual trapping/hunting of animals. Since this is a task that had to be possible within an apartment (even if the person doesn't choose to do it within an apartment) each aspect had to be something possible within those limits. Hopefully that helps clarify why I went the route I did.

Inge Leonora-den Ouden wrote:I saw there's a 'bird snare' mentioned.
What exactly do you mean by that?
Here it isn't allowed to catch birds. Only ornithologists with permission can catch birds (alive) for research purposes.

Youtube and many other sites don't allow you to show catching/killing a live animal. This would also have to be done potentially in an apartment, so not a lot of wild birds there. Showing it would be a matter of using a finger or prop to show how the trap would function. I've seen some videos where the person shows how the traps work using small plush toys and one or two where the person just gently presses a finger on the trigger.

The next revision of the Foraging Badge with PEA. I included the sub-links for the meal section here to be clearer. Details on requests for new ones would probably be under the primary grouping pages.

Research local wild edibles and compile a notebook.
Create a local map of unattended public fruit/nut trees and bushes, as well as patches of edibles in your area.
Craft each of the following:
- A hook from a bone or thorn
- A hook from a paperclip
- A hook from a soda tab
Create each of the following using only natural and recycled materials:
- A simple spoon lure
- A basic fly
Craft and test on video (indoors) each of the following:
- Figure 4 Trap
- Scissor Trap
- Bird Snare
Obtain wild-harvested items (can be purchased) and prepare them for a meal using at least 1 Cup total each of at least 4 of the following (4 Cups Total) to make 4 dishes:
- Wild-harvested Mushrooms
    Chantrels
    Puffballs
    Oyster
    Hen of the Woods
    Chicken of the Woods
    Morels
    Bouletes
- Edible Wildflowers or Buds
    Violet
    Rose
    Chickory
    Dandelion
    Redbud
    Clover
    Day lily
- Wild Leafy Green or Moss
    Raindeer Moss
    Dandelion
    Plantain
    Miner’s Lettuce
    Parslane
    Clover
    Curly Dock
    Pigweed
- Wild Stem Plant or shoots
    Parslane
    Cattail
    Wild Asparagus
- Starchy Root or Taproot from wild sources
    Dandelion
    Burdock
    Chickory Root
    Wild Potato
    Ground Nut
    Wild Carrot
    Cattail
    Daylily
- Local Wild Fruits
    Bramble Berries (raspberry, blackberry, etc)
    Wild Plum
    Wild Persimmon
    Wild Cherry
    Wild Strawberry
    Lowbush Blueberry
    Wild Cranberry
    Serviceberry
- Wild Edible Grains and nuts
    Pigweed
    Black Walnut
    Acorns
    Wild Rice
- Misc Edibles
    Wild Onion
    Wild Garlic
Make 1 cup of tea from any wild-gathered fruit, herb, or similar dried item. (May be purchased from another source)
    Sassafrass
    Spice Bush
    Wild Ginger
    Rose Hip
    Wild Mint


Elective List (Do any 4 of the following)
- Obtain and prepare a whole fish of 2 very different types. (scale/skin, gut, etc)
- Obtain and prepare two small game animals (skin, gut, etc)
    Squirrel, rabbit, pigeon, quail, etc
- Craft 4 lbs of seed balls.
- Obtain and Dry 2 lbs of fresh wild-harvested Mushrooms
- Obtain and 1 Pound of wild-harvested fruit, leaves, or flowers for tea (rose hip, pineapple weed, mint, etc)
- Compile a list, with images, of the plants in your area that are water indicators
- Make a Salt-water Survival Bottle
- Create a functional solar still

paul wheaton wrote:First,  I seem to recall that the idea with PEA1 certification was that there would be fewer sand badges required, but each sand badge would be heavier. The PEP natural medicine sand badge requires 7 BBs.  And each of those BBs require harvesting most (or all) of the ingredients.  So my guess is that the PEA natural medicine sand badge would require 12 BBs - but all the materials would be purchased.

I fear my memory isn't strong enough to remember such details a year after the initial discussions. I've been going by what was originally written back then which seems to indicate more time for the same badges, but still notes the same number of badges per level. That info is found in the Core Philosophy page and may need to be amended if so. It's an easy adjustment though, so no worries there.

paul wheaton wrote:
So the badge description might be something like:

Complete at least one of the following, and a total of 12 unique BBs

harvest, dry, and store enough for a tea, infusion or decoction
 ginger root
 peppermint leaf
 mullein leaf
 chamomile blossom
 lavender blossom
 alfalfa leaf or blossom
 oat straw
 red clover
 lemon balm
 raspberry leaf
 strawberry leaf
 oregon grape stem or root bark
 rose hips, buds, blossom petals
 elderberries

vinegar infusion - create one
 fire cider
 elderberry
 garlic
 lavender blossom plus hibiscus blossom

oil infusion - create one
 mullein blossom and garlic
 calendula blossom
 balm of gilead (Cottonwood Buds)
 arnica blossom

salve - create one
 calendula blossom
 balm of gilead (Cottonwood Buds)
 comfrey leaf
 peppermint leaf

tincture - create one
 dandelion root
 echinacea blossom, leaf or root
 oregano leaf
 cayenne fruit
 oregon grape stem or root bark

poultice (fresh or freeze) - create one
 plantain leaf
 comfrey leaf
 ginger root

syrup or gummies - create one
 rosehip
 elderberry
 echinacea blossom, leaf or root

create one infusion (hot or cold) from fresh or dried materials
 chamomile blossom
 lavender blossom
 peppermint leaf

create one decoction from fresh or dried materials
 dandelion root
 ginger root
 stinging nettle leaf
 thyme

For this to work, then each type of tincture would need to be a distinct BB.

I believe we should still require at least one from each section so they still get the experience of making something with each method. Otherwise though, that is viable.

paul wheaton wrote:
The good news is that creating each BB should be pretty easy.   It could even go so far as to say

Details in the PEP BB.

To show you've completed this BB you must post pictures or video of the following:

- picture of the oregano leaf
- picture of the tincture being made
- picture of the finished tincture in its labeled jar

And this is indeed my feeling. Making new BBs for individual plants is super easy, so making it where in PEA we can easily keep adding new ones if someone is clear that obtaining the listed herbals is cost prohibitive in their country for some reason. That way there's absolutely no reason a person can't do the badge bits even when nothing on the list is readily shipped to where they are. I admit that is an edge case that may not even ever come up, but it's easier to build the resiliency into the system at the start than to try finding a way around it later. As you've mentioned, this is about creating a stepping stone for them to get into PEP without any barriers.

paul wheaton wrote:

D. Logan wrote:The proposed solution: If I set that segment up in a manner where there are several default sub-options you can list, then indicate that other things can be used, but if so, be sure to talk to staff first so a new split-off can be created on behalf of the PEP badge seeker. This way we keep the badge itself broad, but also create very specific badge bit aspects for appeasing the algorithm in terms of SEO. IE: Best of both worlds.

So maybe we need to explore "make a tincture".   Are you suggesting that there is one BB "make a tincture" that has 8 different possible tinctures, instead of 8 BBs each featuring a type of tincture?

More or less. A BB for "Make a Tincture" stands as the main bb link. When you get there, it outlines the requirements, lists maybe 8 possible tincture options with links, then outlines a procedure for having another option suggested based on what would be easily obtained in your area. The certification then happens on the option links and staff can add new options as needed when someone encounters a situation where they can't procure what is needed for one of the options locally. This creates specific options as is found in the original PEP version, but also opens up the PEA version to have a lot more variations so no one feels like they are hitting a wall if their country doesn't have reasonable fees to deliver something there that would be exotic for them even if it was super common in the US.

PEA Natural Medicine Badge page ---> PEA Make a Tincture page ---> PEA Specific Tincture badge bit

After giving a ton of thought to the matter of Foraging and Natural Medicine badges in PEA, I think I have a way to obtain the best of both worlds regarding individual badge bits. So, here we go.

The problem: PEA is written in a way that opens it up to the entire world, but SEO aspects that Paul prefers would require far more specific items to be listed.

The proposed solution: If I set that segment up in a manner where there are several default sub-options you can list, then indicate that other things can be used, but if so, be sure to talk to staff first so a new split-off can be created on behalf of the PEP badge seeker. This way we keep the badge itself broad, but also create very specific badge bit aspects for appeasing the algorithm in terms of SEO. IE: Best of both worlds.

Any thoughts on this?

I got a reply from her right away today. She's normally pretty reluctant to quilt for sale since it can be hard to get a fair price out of most people (everyone is used to sweatshop prices at big box stores) for the time spent. She noted that her trips to Amish country has shown that the range for things she typically makes sits around $900 - $1500. How much would depend a lot on what the person wanted and though she didn't say so, I suspect she'd want part of it up front so that if the person backed out, she wouldn't have lost all the material costs and time entirely.

While I don't quilt, my mother does. I will ask if she has any projects already most of the way done, but offhand what sort of quilt are you most interested in? Size? Simple or fancy, etc.

Inge Leonora-den Ouden wrote:No, I don't think a trench is possible. And probably the rules are different in different countries or states about what is allowed in a rented apartment. Here you can make whatever you like (as long as you do not destroy anything), only when you move away from there you'll have to remove everything, bringing the apartment back in the way it was when you moved into it.

You have a great situation with that one! I wish it was like that around here. I've had some apartments  so strict they didn't even want you to put a nail in the wall to hang a picture without permission in writing first.

Inge Leonora-den Ouden wrote:

D. Logan wrote:... Make a natural paint and paint 4x8 of surface area  (furniture or wall)

That's something I want to do here! First I'll have to take off the (old) wallpaper. I hope after that I can paint the wall with clay paint.

What we need to find a way to apply the skills inside of an apartment:
Build a shed  ...

Isn't it possible to build a pantry or closet instead? Like a shed inside the apartment?

Unfortunately,  that falls under dimensional lumber. I can't imagine many apartments allowing cob, cordwood, etc. Let alone a rubble trench. ;-P It's why this badge is one Paul didn't expect could be used with apartments.