Rick Larson

Yep. I have failed to understand why excluding people who want to learn and participate is helpful in getting the message out. I will not be a bother to you any longer. Good luck.

http://www.greenpeace.org/australia/PageFiles/480942/Point_Of_No_Return.pdf

I have read many posts from people that deserve an apple, yet they don't have one.

I suppose, its better than paying in dollars... Nice website, good information, chincy apple hoarding.

If owner hopes for world domination, he is going to need all the apples he can get. Limiting your apples to a "chosen few" means the "chosen few" will have to work that much harder for the domination coordinator. Besides, this new tactic is not very nice. Everybody should get an apple dammit!

My garage is full. My basement is full. My shed is full. And I still find room for more. When this economy crashes, I will have enough hand tools and other useful items to give to all my neighbors.

paul wheaton wrote:.

Overall, I think the value of LED is marginal at best. I forsee a lot of subsidy and planned obsolescence for LED.

I didn't use subsidy and I think these LEDs are very long life at the moment. Since there is little you or I can do about government policy, a good plan would be to buy the LEDs when a subsidy is instituted, before the engineers can incorporate an obsolescence into them.

paul wheaton wrote: I think ten years from now, a long life incandescent will still be the best choice. In fact - i would like to see an incandescent with a thicker glass and a way to replace the filaments. Something with a tiny garbage footprint.

In ten years there might not be any, and you know darn well industry has no interest in producing high quality. You would have to have a glass blower and a electrical tinkerer to make you one. Then the cost advantage goes out the window.

Give me an apple for logical reasoning!

paul wheaton wrote:

What toxic gick?

The electronics that are in the LED. capacitors, resistors, etc. Plus - so much plastic. There is simply much more material and sophistication in one bulb. And how does it compare in the waste stream to an incandescent.

Granted, an LED is about 50 times less toxic than a CFL. But an LED is about 15 times more toxic than an incandescent.

I think that at $8 per year for electricity for light, combined with the idea that it is a heat source in winter .... for me, the incandescent is a clear winner.

Ok. If we count the toxic gick burning coal to produce more electricity for the incandescent? Brings this closer to par. Look, on the up front financial and having a choice side, incandescent is a clear winner. But I want to lower my electrical use down to my solar electric system production without compromising too much on the quality of life. Its what I want. I think this is more responsible than wanting to buy a Hummer, or some such other wasteful polluting device, with my extra money.

And hey, I'm totally with you on the CFLs.

Interesting. I wonder what would happen to, lets say, an apple tree?

R Scott wrote:LED bulbs have way less toxic gick than CFL's. But there was all kinds of toxic gick used to make the LED's, it just stayed in China...

Is it more or less toxic gick (I like that new word) than making incandescent?

paul wheaton wrote:I spend $8 per per year on electricity for light. In 20 years that works out to $160. I don't think I'm going to see an ROI in 20 years.

Plus, I find the light quality of the LED poor. And the LED is loaded with toxic gick.

The heat that comes off the incandescent is a bonus in the winter. In the summer, I rarely turn on the lights due to natural sunlight.

What toxic gick? Not aware of that. That would be important for me to know. I have bought LEDs from assorted manufacturers, and there is no uniformity as to the quality of light. And yes, there was a period of adjustment, but a few days of use my eyes adjusted very well. You might criticize my kitchen light though, as there are 3 different style bulbs in 5 sockets to get a light my wifey actually liked. I replaced five 60 watt bulbs with two 1.5 watts, two 7 watts, and one 13 watts. Together they cast a very nice light.

You are taking payback, I am talking return on investment, using less electricity without compromising the quality of life (much), with the goal of not using any utility energy.