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Colony Collapse Disorder - Past speculation, mechanisms explained.

Amedean Messan
pollinator

Joined: Nov 11, 2010
Posts: 871
Location: Burlington, NC, USA - Woodland, Clay - Zone 7
    
  28
Nothing to be surprised about as it acknowledges what everyone already expected (pesticides) but it was explained in full detail and peer reviewed with repeatable results. This means there is undeniable evidence of cause and effect.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2013/mar/27/pesticide-bees-scent-food-neocotinoid

Damian Carrington wrote:The new findings on the effect of pesticides on bee brains showed that within 20 minutes of exposure to neonicotinoids the neurons in the major learning centre of the brain stopped firing. Christopher Connolly at the University of Dundee, who led the peer-reviewed work published in the online journal Nature Communications, said it was the first to show the pesticides had a direct impact on pollinator brain physiology.

A parallel peer-reviewed study on the behaviour of bees subjected to the same insecticides found the bees were slower to learn or completely forgot important associations between floral scent and food rewards. "Disruption in this important function has profound implications for honeybee colony survival, because bees that cannot learn will not be able to find food," said Dr Geraldine Wright, at Newcastle University, who led the work.



Those who hammer their swords into plows will plow for those who don't!
Dan Cruickshank


Joined: Aug 18, 2012
Posts: 59
Location: Virginia
This was peer reviewed? What I got from the article was that, due to an insufficient separation of the control group from the pesticide group, it was impossible to actually draw conclusions. That's shoddy science. Other articles, dated about a year back, had clearer conclusions regarding the effects of neonicotinoids on bees. (Not good.)

Other possible explanations of CCD remain: a combination of mites and a virus was a recent one I head from the chemical beekeepers.

Sadly, I'm still waiting for proof and consensus on this issue. Until the pesticide manufacturers and users are convinced, we still get to suffer the effects.

Dan


And the LORD God took the man, and put him in the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it. - Gen 2:15
John Polk
steward

Joined: Feb 20, 2011
Posts: 6652
Location: Moving to: NE Washington USDA zone 5 Western steppes to the Rockies
    
137
possible explanations of CCD remain: a combination of mites and a virus was a recent one


If mites and/or virus was a cause, there would be piles of dead bees below the hives.
That is not the case with CCD. There are no dead bees. There are no bees.



Dan Cruickshank


Joined: Aug 18, 2012
Posts: 59
Location: Virginia
John,

I am not an entomologist, so please explain your comment: how is it that mites might not weaken a colony enough to catch a virus, where the action of the virus was to confuse the bees so that they would be unable to return to their hive? What renders this scenario either impossible or unlikely?

Dan
John Polk
steward

Joined: Feb 20, 2011
Posts: 6652
Location: Moving to: NE Washington USDA zone 5 Western steppes to the Rockies
    
137
If a colony were infected with a virus, there would likely be death within the hive.
Healthy bees would push the dead ones out, or they would all die within the hive.

CCD displays hives without internal or external death.
The bees just vanish, they do not die in the hive.

Dan Cruickshank


Joined: Aug 18, 2012
Posts: 59
Location: Virginia
I must still be missing something ... why would the bodies of dead bees need to be near the hive if the hive died from a virus? Isn't that sort of like saying that polio isn't a virus because you don't blow your nose? Shouldn't you expect different viruses to have different symptoms? If that's the case, why can't one symptom of a virus be that the bees get confused and don't return to their hive?

I hear what you are saying (okay, I'm reading it), but I'm still struggling to see the cause and effect for it. Why would the dead bees have to be on the ground nearby in the case of a virus? This isn't making sense to me yet.

Thanks,

Dan
Ernie Schmidt


Joined: Jan 19, 2013
Posts: 48
Location: Olympia, Washington
    
    1
I do not have an answer, I have theories, but nothing to base them on. So by definition my theories are baseless. One interesting point I have discovered in my study of CCD- there isn't a documented case of it in a Warre or Top Bar hive. It appears to be mostly a commercial beekeeping aliment. However, having made that claim, if anyone has documented proof otherwise, please let me know. But please, everyone, with all due respect, "having heard of a case in a Warre or Top Bar" isn't much more valuable then my personal theories.
Rufus Laggren


Joined: Feb 23, 2012
Posts: 349
Location: Chicago/San Francisco
    
    4
> virus and mites...

Perhaps there is standard common knowledge in biology labs of symptoms and affects of viruses in hives that has not been mentioned here. Eg. in the past have all known viruses caused damage _within_ the hive and left evidence at the hive site? If this is so then it would not be unreasonable to expect similar symptoms if a virus were causing the current trouble.

Don't know, myself. Putting this out because this sounds like one of those discussions where different people have different assumptions/knowledge and don't realize others are not "on the same page". Sometimes it's good "check your premises" as John Galt advised to save time and misunderstanding...

Rufus
Amedean Messan
pollinator

Joined: Nov 11, 2010
Posts: 871
Location: Burlington, NC, USA - Woodland, Clay - Zone 7
    
  28
Dan Cruickshank wrote:This was peer reviewed? What I got from the article was that, due to an insufficient separation of the control group from the pesticide group, it was impossible to actually draw conclusions. That's shoddy science. Other articles, dated about a year back, had clearer conclusions regarding the effects of neonicotinoids on bees. (Not good.)

Other possible explanations of CCD remain: a combination of mites and a virus was a recent one I head from the chemical beekeepers.

Sadly, I'm still waiting for proof and consensus on this issue. Until the pesticide manufacturers and users are convinced, we still get to suffer the effects.


There are links at the page I referenced. If you are waiting for uniform consensus, well sadly with liability and profitability in mind that is more a political element then a logical precaution. Either way, from my understanding CCD is not a problem with holistic approaches. I like this woman's summary of the situation.

 
 
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