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Hemp/Cannabis

Jay Kemp


Joined: Feb 20, 2012
Posts: 12
I am surprised there is not more pro hemp messages in this type of forum/lifestyle. It would save the planet as a bio-fuel ridding our reliance on a non-renewable fossil fuel. I'm quite curious to find out more of everyone's opinions on this subject as it was once the basis of many societies. Hemp that is! Cheers Peace & Wellness.


Jay Blaze
Executive Director
SE Wisconsin NORML
JayBlaze@SEWisconsinNORML.org
Abe Connally


Joined: Feb 20, 2010
Posts: 1314
Location: Chihuahua Desert
    
    6
do you have any data for amount of oil per acre for hemp?


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Jay Kemp


Joined: Feb 20, 2012
Posts: 12
I don't have raw data. I do know Hemp is a much more efficient crop than corn for ethanol and it also burns a lot cleaner it's renewable. If 'spilled' in the ocean there would be no threat to wildlife...I'm just surprised more people aren't more passionate for something that has the potential to revers any greenhouse effect or "Global Warming" if you rather.
Craig Dobbelyu


Joined: Dec 22, 2011
Posts: 849
Location: Maine (zone 5)
    
  21
It would still require A LOT of farm land to grow enough hemp to create any significant volume of oil. To be competitive hemp would be competing with corn and sugar cane right? That's a very steep uphill climb trying to compete with those lobbies. What are the Nutrient requirements for hemp? Does it fit in a crop rotation? I have a hard time believing that it is truly sustainable crop though. It requires farm land used for food crops so I think any benefit from hemp would be lost in reduced food production.

Better for the environment than crude oil? yes
Sustainable? Not unless we seriously cut our energy uses.

Canada grows hemp right? How is that working for them?


"You may never know what results come of your action, but if you do nothing there will be no result”

-Gandhi
Abe Connally


Joined: Feb 20, 2010
Posts: 1314
Location: Chihuahua Desert
    
    6
I don't have raw data. I do know Hemp is a much more efficient crop than corn for ethanol and it also burns a lot cleaner it's renewable. If 'spilled' in the ocean there would be no threat to wildlife...I'm just surprised more people aren't more passionate for something that has the potential to revers any greenhouse effect or "Global Warming" if you rather.


I have not seen any oil crops that compete with the ethanol crops. Sugars/starches are easier for plants to make than oils.

Here's an example:
Sunflowers for oil - 120 gallons per acre
Corn for ethanol - 400 gallons per acre

Oils do not burn cleaner than alcohols. And ethanol spilled in the ocean would be harmless to wildlife, too.

I imagine it doesn't compete even with the most basic energy crops, and that's why folks are not passionate about it. Sustainability has everything to do with HOW you grow a crop, not necessarily the crop itself. You can grow corn sustainably.

Just for the record, I'm not fan of corn ethanol or anything, but it helps to have your facts straight if you start making claims about energy crops.
Cris Bessette
volunteer

Joined: May 20, 2011
Posts: 646
Location: North Georgia / Appalachian mountains , Zone 8A
    
  26
Jay Kemp wrote:I am surprised there is not more pro hemp messages in this type of forum/lifestyle. It would save the planet as a bio-fuel ridding our reliance on a non-renewable fossil fuel. I'm quite curious to find out more of everyone's opinions on this subject as it was once the basis of many societies. Hemp that is! Cheers Peace & Wellness.


When I think hemp, I don't think fuel. I think fibers.
It just just seems to me that we should trying to get away from internal combustion engines, though If they could perfect hydrogen technology, that would be better.
If I'm gonna be burning any cannabis, its not going to be in my car, cops tend to have a problem with that.
Jay Kemp


Joined: Feb 20, 2012
Posts: 12
All awesome ideas and reasons to legalize and re-industrialize hemp. I may be wrong about the oil conversion per acre but Rudolph Diesel and Henry Ford both thought that hemp would be the next fuel and even designed engines to be ran on hemp oil and bio-fuel as Diesel fuel from hemp Only to be derailed by the Hearst Paper giant with the yellow journalism and DuPont inventing nylon in 1935 to prohibition in 1937... However with hemp as a cleaner alternative it should at least be an option. I also love the fact that very little has come up about smoking it. I get that thrown in my face all the time, "You just want to get high" Thank you, I respect the respect! I just have a hard time with the politics behind hemp prohibition and I know this is the wrong place to even mention politics, I do apologize, lol.

I do think as a fiber hemp should be able to be grown in the USA we are the worlds largest importer of Hemp from Canada as well. That's how they are doing, they export most of their Hemp to us in America, that equals job loss.

Hemp is GREAT for crop rotation as it needs no pesticides, it breaks up the soil, cleaning it if anything and you can harvest a usable hemp crop rather than going barren a year for rotation.
Isaac Hill
volunteer

Joined: Feb 28, 2011
Posts: 343
Location: Beaver County, Pennsylvania (~ zone 6)
    
    2
The decades of "drug wars", read race & class war, has stigmatized hemp and at this point it's not possible to talk about the fiber or the seed apart from the flower. That being said, IMO, there's absolutely nothing wrong with smoking the dried flower in the first place. Don't let the stigma get to you!


"To oppose something is to maintain it" -- Ursula LeGuin
Cee Ray


Joined: Nov 26, 2011
Posts: 33
Location: Sask. / BC
Hemp does best on loose fertile soil, it is not suitable for marginal land. It's a great food crop that can yield +/- 1 lb of seed per plant in a permaculture setting, ie if the plants are given lots of room. It's a great food for birds, and is easy to harvest the seed. Big hemp plants can make stalks suitable for firewood and the straw is great in the litter or a compost pile since it is much more absorbant than cereal straw. It's a good plant for sequestering excess nutrients in the soil, and probably makes an excellent RCW (Ramial Chipped Wood). The stalks can be chopped fine and mixed with hydrated lime to make an excellent concrete substitute. They say 1 hectare of hemp is enough to make a decent sized home. It can be baled and makes a superior straw bale for building. As a fibre for cloth plant it needs to be sown with super tight spacing, which will eliminate branching in most varieties. Probably a great plant for rolling/crimping style no-till as a soil builder. The seed can be sprouted and blended/strained to make a nutritious seed milk.
Abe Connally


Joined: Feb 20, 2010
Posts: 1314
Location: Chihuahua Desert
    
    6
Cris Bessette wrote: It just just seems to me that we should trying to get away from internal combustion engines, though If they could perfect hydrogen technology, that would be better.
If I'm gonna be burning any cannabis, its not going to be in my car, cops tend to have a problem with that.

Can burros eat hemp? If so, it might be a decent fuel after all!
Suzy Bean
steward

Joined: Apr 05, 2011
Posts: 940
Location: Stevensville, MT
    
    2
I posted this in the medicinal herbs forum the other day, but thought it was worth re-posting here. This youtube talks about juicing cannabis leaves and the body's use of the non-psychoactive cannabinoids in radically healing cancers, tumors, pain, and an assortment of diseases. It is only psychoactive when heated or smoked. One plant also cleans the air as much as a full grown tree. Pretty awesome video.


www.thehappypermaculturalist.wordpress.com
Cris Bessette
volunteer

Joined: May 20, 2011
Posts: 646
Location: North Georgia / Appalachian mountains , Zone 8A
    
  26
Abe Connally wrote:
Cris Bessette wrote: It just just seems to me that we should trying to get away from internal combustion engines, though If they could perfect hydrogen technology, that would be better.
If I'm gonna be burning any cannabis, its not going to be in my car, cops tend to have a problem with that.

Can burros eat hemp? If so, it might be a decent fuel after all!


Then we ride the burros!
Jay Kemp


Joined: Feb 20, 2012
Posts: 12
Love it thanks for sharing!!
Abe Connally


Joined: Feb 20, 2010
Posts: 1314
Location: Chihuahua Desert
    
    6
Cris Bessette wrote:Then we ride the burros!

or have 'em pull carts. But burros do fine eating the weeds along the roadside, no need for a special crop of hemp, just for them.
Nemo Lhamo


Joined: Dec 17, 2011
Posts: 14
Never feed loco weed to an equine. My granny said it is not a pretty sight to watch a horse go bat$h!t crazy.

I suspect many people here grow hemp as a cash crop, but they'd never talk about it on the internetz.
Brad Davies
volunteer

Joined: Sep 22, 2011
Posts: 212
Location: Clarkston, MI
    
    1
Abe Connally wrote:do you have any data for amount of oil per acre for hemp?


Quoted from the Emperor wears no clothes by Jack Herer

"Hemp seed contains 30% (by volume) oil. This oil has been used to make high grade diesel fuel oil and aircraft engine oil."

"Each acre of hemp would yield 1000 gallons of methanol."

"farming only 6% of the continental U.S. acreage with biomass crops would provide all of America's gas and oil energy needs ending dependence upon fossil fuels. ( Manahan, Stanley E., Environmental Chemistry, 4th edition)"

"Hemp is Earth's #1 biomass resource; it is capable of producing 10 tons per acre in four months. Hemp is easy on the soil,* sheds its lush foliage throughout the season, adding mulch to the soil and helping retain moisture. Hemp is an ideal crop for the semi-arid west and open range." *Adam Beatty, vice president of the Kentucky Agricultural Society, reported instances of good crops of hemp on the same ground for 14 years in a row without decline in yield.

"Hemp is the only biomass source available that is capable of making the U.S. energy independent. Ultimately, the world has no other rational environmental choice but to give up fossil fuels."


Hemp as food

"No other single plant source can compare with the nutritional value of hemp seeds. Both the complete protein and the essential oils contained in hemp seeds are in ideal ratios for human consumption."

"Cannabis seed protein even allows a body with nutrition-blocking tuberculosis, or almost any other nutrition-blocking ailment, to get maximum nourishment.*" *Cohen & Stillman, Therapeutic Potential of Marijuana, Plenum Press, NY 1976; Czech. Tubercular Nutritional Study, 1955.

"Hemp is a hearty plant that grows almost anywhere, even in adverse conditions. Australians survived two prolonged famines in the 19th century using almost nothing except for hemp seeds for protein and hemp leaves for roughage.4" 4. Frazier, Jack, The Marijuana Farmers, Solar Age Press, New Orleans, LA 1972; also see Australian history books.


If you want to know more get the book, it really is eye opening.


SE, MI, Zone 5b "Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work."
~Thomas Edison
John Polk
steward

Joined: Feb 20, 2011
Posts: 5811
Location: Moving to: NE Washington USDA zone 5 Western steppes to the Rockies
    
  85
"Loco weed" is not cannabis. Loco weed is a Fabaceae, basically a pea. (Cattle in Australia who have eaten it are said to be "Pea struck".)

There are several loco weeds : Fabaceae, Oxytropis and Astragalus in North America, and Swainsona in Australia.
Not all species within those families are "loco weed".
Jay Kemp


Joined: Feb 20, 2012
Posts: 12
Brad Davies wrote:
Abe Connally wrote:do you have any data for amount of oil per acre for hemp?


Quoted from the Emperor wears no clothes by Jack Herer

"Hemp seed contains 30% (by volume) oil. This oil has been used to make high grade diesel fuel oil and aircraft engine oil."

"Each acre of hemp would yield 1000 gallons of methanol."

"farming only 6% of the continental U.S. acreage with biomass crops would provide all of America's gas and oil energy needs ending dependence upon fossil fuels. ( Manahan, Stanley E., Environmental Chemistry, 4th edition)"

"Hemp is Earth's #1 biomass resource; it is capable of producing 10 tons per acre in four months. Hemp is easy on the soil,* sheds its lush foliage throughout the season, adding mulch to the soil and helping retain moisture. Hemp is an ideal crop for the semi-arid west and open range." *Adam Beatty, vice president of the Kentucky Agricultural Society, reported instances of good crops of hemp on the same ground for 14 years in a row without decline in yield.

"Hemp is the only biomass source available that is capable of making the U.S. energy independent. Ultimately, the world has no other rational environmental choice but to give up fossil fuels."


Hemp as food

"No other single plant source can compare with the nutritional value of hemp seeds. Both the complete protein and the essential oils contained in hemp seeds are in ideal ratios for human consumption."

"Cannabis seed protein even allows a body with nutrition-blocking tuberculosis, or almost any other nutrition-blocking ailment, to get maximum nourishment.*" *Cohen & Stillman, Therapeutic Potential of Marijuana, Plenum Press, NY 1976; Czech. Tubercular Nutritional Study, 1955.

"Hemp is a hearty plant that grows almost anywhere, even in adverse conditions. Australians survived two prolonged famines in the 19th century using almost nothing except for hemp seeds for protein and hemp leaves for roughage.4" 4. Frazier, Jack, The Marijuana Farmers, Solar Age Press, New Orleans, LA 1972; also see Australian history books.


If you want to know more get the book, it really is eye opening.


We have the book link for free at our website http://www.sewisconsinnorml.org/cannabis-science/the-emperor-wears-no-clothes/

Devon Olsen


Joined: Nov 28, 2011
Posts: 973
Location: SE Wyoming -zone 4
    
    5
there is certainly more than one good use for hemp
my reasons for not making many threads about it are
1) it is illegal and may draw unwanted attention to Paul's forums or shed the wrong kind of light on the people that are visiting these froums, i simply wish to share and exchange knowledge, information and truth and though hemp certainly is a part of that it is not all of it and as such i leave most of my discussion of hemp to forums dedicated to the discussion of it, so partly BECAUSE of what type of site it is, i don't want to turn a visitor away by making them think that we are stereotypical "hippies"
2) though it is the number 1 dietary crop i know of and it is very useful for fiber's, oils, smokes, medicines and companion crop i still do not think that any one plant is the "savior" of the world, just because hemp presents an alternative fuel as well as alternatives to many other things does not mean its the only miracle plant in the world.


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Jay Kemp


Joined: Feb 20, 2012
Posts: 12
^^ Good point. I didn't want to bring the "Pot" aspect into at all, because of that exact stigma. Cheers! Oh and there's nothing wrong with being a hippy!! lol
Devon Olsen


Joined: Nov 28, 2011
Posts: 973
Location: SE Wyoming -zone 4
    
    5
haha yeah i try not to say there is anything wrong with one livestyle or another unless it infringes on anothers rights or abilities to live ther lifestyle of choice, but i know other people do so i just kinda kept all cannabis related discussion confined to forums/sites about cannabis
Jay Kemp


Joined: Feb 20, 2012
Posts: 12
iRONIC i FOUND THIS ARTICLE TODAY AND THOUGHT IMMEDIATELY (sorry for caps) of you guys and this forum!!
"A crop of industrial hemp can be grown in approximately 90 days. Hemp has large amounts of cellulose, which is a main component for fuel processing. Hemp hurds are 77% cellulose, making hemp one of the BEST carbohydrate sources for biofuel.

“Studies have shown that hemp’s biomass can be converted into energy and could replace nuclear power and our current fossil fuels.[Belle, Mika] Just by farming 6 percent of the US’s acreage this could be achieved. “Hemp grown in biomass could fuel a trillion-dollar-per-year industry, while at the same time create more jobs, clean our air, and distribute wealth to our communities and away from centralized power monopolies.” Hemp’s biomass can be converted into gasoline, methanol, and methane at a fraction of the current cost of oil, coal, or nuclear energy.” (Voteindustrialhemp.com)

SIX PERCENT of our nation’s acreage could replace our current fossil fuel use.

If only that were our reality today."

Cheers!

http://hemphealer.wordpress.com/2012/02/29/national-average-price-of-gas-4-a-gallon-and-rising-are-you-hungry-for-hemp-fuel-yet/
Isaac Hill
volunteer

Joined: Feb 28, 2011
Posts: 343
Location: Beaver County, Pennsylvania (~ zone 6)
    
    2
Devon Olsen wrote:there is certainly more than one good use for hemp
my reasons for not making many threads about it are
1) it is illegal and may draw unwanted attention to Paul's forums or shed the wrong kind of light on the people that are visiting these froums, i simply wish to share and exchange knowledge, information and truth and though hemp certainly is a part of that it is not all of it and as such i leave most of my discussion of hemp to forums dedicated to the discussion of it, so partly BECAUSE of what type of site it is, i don't want to turn a visitor away by making them think that we are stereotypical "hippies"
.


The reasons why it is illegal are based on racism, classism, and to maintain the current hegemonic structures. If we really want to revolutionize agriculture we need to leave behind stigmas that only perpetuate negativity. Hemp is a highly multifunctional plant and as far as Permaculture plants go, is among one of the most ideal plants to have on a homestead. The fact that it is illegal should give us all the more reason to talk about it and destroy the stigma.
paul wheaton
steward

Joined: Apr 01, 2005
Posts: 14154
Location: missoula, montana (zone 4)
    ∞
Devon is spot on. Hemp is politically charged and is grief bait. I think there are gobs of forums out there dedicated to hemp stuff, so I think it would be best to keep the topic there. Those folks are ready to make a stand for hemp and know all the laws-of-the-moment around it.

If I'm gonna be arrested, i would rather get arrested for selling permaculture bacon than for allowing hemp to be talked about on the web.

On a related note: I heard something a while ago that said for everything that hemp is great at, stinging nettles are often just as great or sometimes better (sometimes not).

I gotta say that I would REALLY like to see that full comparison. And I think it would be an EXCELLENT topic for these forums. Imagine, channeling all of the desire for hemp stuff into nettles? What if nettles made better cordage, better clothes, better fuel, better everything? Then you gotta ask yourself "why are people so bonkers about hemp when nettles are better and have no political charge?"




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Dale Hodgins
pollinator

Joined: Jul 28, 2011
Posts: 3510
Location: Victoria British Columbia-Canada
    
  40
For some common sense comparison of hemp as a fuel, check out studies conducted by Canadian cement maker, LaFarge. Hemp proved difficult to process into fuel for their purposes due to it's resistance to being chopped. It produced less BTU per acre than corn.

It's a legal farm crop here and in many other countries. Great coarse fibre crop. Fuel value - not so much. China produces vast quantities, but cotton still dominates clothing manufacture. This has evereything to do with the workability and other qualities of cotton and nothing to do with government regulation against hemp.

I would think that hemp could be inter-cropped with corn and with sugar cane. The weed suppressive quality of hemp should allow for greater total biomass in both combinations. As for method of harvest, this is likely to produce a tangled mess that would resist traditional harvest methods of both corn and cane.


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Isaac Hill
volunteer

Joined: Feb 28, 2011
Posts: 343
Location: Beaver County, Pennsylvania (~ zone 6)
    
    2
paul wheaton wrote:Devon is spot on. Hemp is politically charged and is grief bait. I think there are gobs of forums out there dedicated to hemp stuff, so I think it would be best to keep the topic there. Those folks are ready to make a stand for hemp and know all the laws-of-the-moment around it.

If I'm gonna be arrested, i would rather get arrested for selling permaculture bacon than for allowing hemp to be talked about on the web.

On a related note: I heard something a while ago that said for everything that hemp is great at, stinging nettles are often just as great or sometimes better (sometimes not).

I gotta say that I would REALLY like to see that full comparison. And I think it would be an EXCELLENT topic for these forums. Imagine, channeling all of the desire for hemp stuff into nettles? What if nettles made better cordage, better clothes, better fuel, better everything? Then you gotta ask yourself "why are people so bonkers about hemp when nettles are better and have no political charge?"





First of all, you're not going to get arrested for having a discussion on your forum about hemp. That's just silly. It's no different than raw milk IMO.

Second of all, since this comparison hasn't happened, and you're basing your hypothetical question of a prior hypothetical question, we have to ask, "Why aren't we, as agricultural revolutionaries, trying to discharge the stigma of such a PROVEN useful plant instead of hiding from the possibility of people thinking we're hippies?"
Cris Bessette
volunteer

Joined: May 20, 2011
Posts: 646
Location: North Georgia / Appalachian mountains , Zone 8A
    
  26
Isaac Hill wrote:
... The fact that it is illegal should give us all the more reason to talk about it and destroy the stigma.


I agree. People need to know the truth about cannabis/hemp, if the government and the closed-minded can plaster their anti-cannabis nonsense propaganda anywhere, then we need to push back on every front available to us.


Cannabis/hemp being outlawed is immoral in my opinion.
Dale Hodgins
pollinator

Joined: Jul 28, 2011
Posts: 3510
Location: Victoria British Columbia-Canada
    
  40
Any study or comparrison of value can be found by studying the farming culture of the many countries which allow hemp production. You'll find that it is neither demonised nor romanticized since it is not a political hot potato. Farmers grow it if the market can absorb it and they can turn a profit. It hasn't produced an egaltarian Eden in any of those countries. It has produced fibre, seed and oil.
Isaac Hill
volunteer

Joined: Feb 28, 2011
Posts: 343
Location: Beaver County, Pennsylvania (~ zone 6)
    
    2
Right on Dale, and since it is a demonstrably USEFUL plant, I see no reason why we shouldn't discuss it's benefits. We discuss the benefits of raw milk, don't we? That's also illegal and a hot button issue. By having rational discourse about this plant we can shift the discussion away from the polarizing political one and into a practical agricultural one.
paul wheaton
steward

Joined: Apr 01, 2005
Posts: 14154
Location: missoula, montana (zone 4)
    ∞
I've decided to lock this thread.

This is a very important topic - for political reasons. And I want these forums to be about the non-political aspects of permaculture and homesteading.





 
 
subject: Hemp/Cannabis
 
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