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24x24 clay chimney liner instead of 45 gallon drum

Jon Adams


Joined: Feb 22, 2012
Posts: 8
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Just wondering if anyone has tried to use a 24x24 clay chimney liner as an outer shell instead of the standard oil drum? I have seen a few RMS that have the drum covered with cob or something so i assume the air contact with the drum is not a requirement. My thoughts are that it will take longer to radiate heat but once hot it should hold heat alot longer. I am a log builder and I plan to use it in a small cabin and think the appearence would suit the style of home a little better. What if any drawbacks do you see and if this has been tried and failed please let me know and save me the time and effort.

Thanks
Jon
Daniel Truax


Joined: Jan 07, 2012
Posts: 61
It wouldn't cool the gases as quickly so the stack effect in the heat riser would be somewhat less that if you used a steel outer shell. You could compensate for this by plugging it into a tall final chimney.
Ernie Wisner
volunteer

Joined: Oct 16, 2009
Posts: 788
Location: Tonasket washington
    
  23
Jon that would work.
as stated its not going to cool as fast as steel but it should do fine with a little taller heat riser. The barrel is cheap and plentiful and it works well so we use it. developing new barrel type things is an interest of ours because we know that what urns some folks off is the barrel.

I would warn that you will want to make the stove with clean outs that allow you to clean the manifold all the way around with out removing the barrel/masonry and you will want to be able to remove the capstone to get to the top of the heat riser.
the cleaning schedule should be once a year so setting the barrel in cob so you cant get to these parts is not recommended.


Need more info?
Ernie and Erica
Wood burning stoves, Rocket Mass Heaters, DIY,
Stove plans, Boat plans, General permiculture information, Arts and crafts, Fire science, Find it at www.ernieanderica.info


Jon Adams


Joined: Feb 22, 2012
Posts: 8
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Thanks for the avdvice. The liner is fairly inexpensive at $35 each and I would only need two to get 48 inches in height. the lid will be steel with a copper tube/water heat sink on top of it to heat some water for the chickens and for extra thermal mass. I am also wondering if I could use a round 8" chimney(6" inside) liner for the heat riser, and if so would I still need to insulate around it as it is built to stop heat transfer. I am new to this but have always been a think outside the box kind of guy so these are just a few ideas I am floating out to the masses. I am also looking for the best detailed information I can find so if you could point me in the right direction I would be very greatful.

Just getting started so thank you
Jon

richard valley


Joined: Aug 18, 2011
Posts: 195
Location: Sierra Nevada mountain valley CA, & Nevada high desert
Ernie, Been looking at some of the work you've put into this stove. Well done! Actually that's how I came to this site. What I've seen has got me looking at building one first, than when I know I can do it properly, install one at one of the ranches.

At ranch II we have no solid fuel so the RMH is very attracitve. Jon's idea, the clay liner, is a good adaptation for his use.

I've watched several videos and can track changes and perfections. Clean outs and material used in the firebox in particular.
Ernie Wisner
volunteer

Joined: Oct 16, 2009
Posts: 788
Location: Tonasket washington
    
  23
I was given a task to make them the best stove i could, then i assumed a task of making them the best stove I couldn't. In other words i can only do so much myself and thats as far as I can go. However others can take things much farther than I and All i need to do is proof things and apply my weak intellect to improving them the little bits i am able. thank you for the vote of confidence.

I think you will find that by years end I will have a few more refinements. Again thanks for the confidence it keeps me going.
Len Ovens


Joined: Aug 26, 2010
Posts: 1279
Location: Vancouver Island
    
  15
Jon Adams wrote:Thanks for the avdvice. The liner is fairly inexpensive at $35 each and I would only need two to get 48 inches in height.


I had been looking for those. the biggest I can get locally is 16x12s. I am not willing to order outside local so I gave up. I have covered my "barrel" with bricks with no problems at all. I would say that the whole action of what happens at the top of the riser is poorly understood and the heat flow away from that area by radiation vs. conduction through brick has not been well tested. Check out this link:

http://www.handprintpress.com/ovens/recent-research-on-rocket-mass-heaters-and-bell-design/

For a set of RMH builds that all use masonry in place of a barrel. I have seen other masonry topped RMHs on the internet too. This is virgin territory still open for experimentation. Build it outside first to test. $70 does not seem over much to try out. If I could source them here I would try that as i think those liners look nicer than a drum and easier to erect than brick. How many come to a pallet? I can probably get them here if I order a whole pallet.


the lid will be steel with a copper tube/water heat sink on top of it to heat some water for the chickens and for extra thermal mass.


Not so sure I would do that. My reason being that the water coil ends up being horizontal. Any part of that loop that ends up high will collect steam. Any of the water "coils" (normally S shaped actually) i have seen are vertical ones where there is a clear upwards path from intake to exit with no possible high pockets in the path. I would suggest such an S shaped tube inside the "barrel". You are doing a nice square one and could offset it to one side to make room for your S. Copper may not be good enough though. A good understanding of high pressure plumbing is a must, even if you intend to leave your reservoir open to the air.


I am also wondering if I could use a round 8" chimney(6" inside) liner for the heat riser, and if so would I still need to insulate around it as it is built to stop heat transfer. I am new to this but have always been a think outside the box kind of guy so these are just a few ideas I am floating out to the masses. I am also looking for the best detailed information I can find so if you could point me in the right direction I would be very greatful.


Yes you could use round flue. Because it is only one inch thick, I would insulate it. I would put a layer of roxul around it (welding blanket would work too) and some metal hardware cloth or sheet steel around it.
Len Ovens


Joined: Aug 26, 2010
Posts: 1279
Location: Vancouver Island
    
  15
One more thing about the 24x24 flue sections. I have seen whole stoves made of them and the one I have seen the sections were cut lengthwise where they wanted to put a hole in them... for the door or cleanouts. Then they were put back together and steel strap was used to hold them together with rock wool as a gasket. See link below...

http://mha-net.org/docs/v8n2/wildac04a.htm

I am thinking that if you are putting the burn tunnel through the side you may have to do this... or cut up from the bottom. Anyway I thought the pictures might give you some ideas.
allen lumley
pollinator

Joined: Mar 16, 2012
Posts: 2407
Location: Northern New York Zone4-5 the OUTER 'RONDACs percip 36''
    
  40
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