EM - Effective Microorganisms (Bokashi composting)

I responded to Leah's 'weird decomposition question' after reading about Bokashi composting on another forum. It seems that Bokashi is an anaerobic method of using bran inoculated with EM (effective microbes or microorganisms) to ferment food waste - particularly the smelly meat and fish waste, in an orderless, efficient manner. You close it all up in a bucket, and in a little over 10 days it's ready to be buried in your soil.

At the permaculture convergence, there was a discussion about EM, which I'd heard about, but didn't attend. The permie discussion talked about using EM in all kinds of restorative ways, for ponds, soils, and more, not just buckets of smelly meat. Or skulls! Speaking of which, some students I know just tried boiling a skull to reduce it to bare bones and, well, I guess it wasn't a very fresh skull, so the smell was horrendous!

The boiling incident reminded me of the Bokashi again, so I looked it up and that's when I learned it DOES use EM. I also found this one guy's website about EM: http://www.eminfo.info/index.html, that looks amazingly thorough, if a bit um, zealous. Anther gardening blog recommended Bokashi bucket as a way to compost at condos or apartments - places where folks can't have a compost bin.

I'm now wondering how to get the stuff and if any one else has tried it. I see a few US suppliers, www.emamerica.com, www.scdworld.com and www.emearth.com. Any experience or recommendations out there?

This is just off the top of my head, but it sounds like the same stuff that is added to those dog-poop digesters, and also sold as "compost starters".

Do you have any info on specifically what types of microorganisms are used?

[Edit] Okay, I just googled 'compost starter', and second one that came up said it was "It's a powerful two-part system of energizer (including peanut meal) and activator (micro-organisms, alfalfa, cocoa meal, and other ingredients)" http://www.gardeners.com/Super-Hot-Compost-Starter/02-175,default,pd.html

Sue

As an anaerobic process, wouldn't you have to vent that bucket? It would produce a gas after digesting all of the tissue and "stuff"..... which would be stinky.... so does it just poof a little smelly stink cloud when you first open the bucket, or do you vent it? This is very interesting

maybe some kind of air lock? but i thought it could go in a bag? maybe these organisms don't produce as much gas as regular ol yeast or something. I wonder if it is the same as the doggy bag innoculants. something else I want to check out is the rid-x product for septic tanks. I think it lists the orgs that are used and I could compare if I had a list of the others. not enough time now, maybe its in one of those links. I'm not sureif the ridx stuff is meant for anaerobic work though.

Rid-X is absolutely for anaerobic work. Septic tanks seldom see the light of day nor the topside air. What little air it may get from venting in the house is negligable, most of that air is for the house.

That's an interesting idea to check how Rid-X compares...

-Jeremy

Sue, I don't know about the compost starters or dog poop digesters. Does any one have a link for those?

BioSam, I guess the Bokashi bucket is truly anerobic - you are supposed to tightly seal the bucket, drain off excess liquid, and it's not supposed to be smelly. I read that some folks even use the EM as a natural deordorizing spray. I haven't tried it in any form yet, but it sounds really interesting.

Leah and Jeremy, from the eminfo.info website I linked in the first post, the American EM contains 9 critters:

Lactic acid bacteria (these are beneficial organisms widely found in fermented foods, and in the GI tract of healthy humans and animals):
Lactobacillus plantarum
Lactobacillus casei
Lactobacillus fermentum
Lactobacillus salivarius
Lactobacillus delbrueckii

Phototrophic purple non-sulfur bacteria, aka PNSB (these are widely found in ponds, soil, on plant leaves, in ice, snow and in icicles):
Rhodopseudomonas palustris
Rhodobacter sphaeroides (aka R. spheroides)
Rhodobacter capsulatus

Yeast:
Saccharomyces cerevisiae (these are beneficial organisms widely found in fermented foods, and in the GI tract of healthy humans and animals)

The Rid-x stuff for septic tanks, http://www.rid-x.com/faq.shtml, doesn't say exactly what's in it. It says, "100% natural active bacteria and enzymes." I'm not sure what that means.

The Rid-X MSDS lists the ingredients as Bacterial Enzyme Mixture (40-43%) and Calcium Carbonate (gypsum) (20-24%). You noticed right away that that only adds up to 67% max.

It also says "Bran-type odor" and "tan to light brown" color. So the filler may be bran or something similar.
http://msds.reckittprofessional.com/customer_services/msds/dist/370893_r.pdf

Their website says it contains lipase, protease, amylase and cellulase, but says "beneficial bacteria and enzymes".
http://www.rid-x.com/about.shtml

Sue

Yes, Em is something of a cult in its own right, and I was wondering why it hadn´t turned up on these forums before. It´s quite incredible and should be used more widely in my opinion, i´ve used it for eco toilets, water cleaning etc, as well as on the veg and it definitely works. My only criticism relates to the fact that the list of microorganisms is something of a state secret, hence the pyramid type scheme by which one has to buy it. Now if we could make it ourselves, then we could change the world!

Foul-smelling chemicals tend to be made with nitrogen or sulfur. Lots of carbon bulk that is well-innoculated and deficient in those elements will work as an active getter for those sorts of gasses: a molecule of NH4 or H2S will float by, and all the little prokaryotes will scramble for it like bride's maids catching a bouquet. The Humanure Handbook mentions this in passing.

It would be interesting to compare the performance of brand-name EM bran, with bran that has been mixed with a small amount of, say, ordinary finished compost grown exclusively from wild microorganisms. My gut feeling is that the less control has been imposed on such a community, the better it will perform.

Hi everyone!
First time posting on the forum (though I have been perusing since last winter. Great forum.
I have been using EM for 3 years with excellent results.
It is hard to say exactly what is in it, but the previous poster is right on, I think, though there are probably more microbes than what is listed.
I think the main thing to remember on EM is there is a consortium, a synergy, where the whole is greater than the sum of all its parts. Since the fermentative process takes the ferment to pH's of 3.6 or slightly lower,
there are only specific microbes that can survive and even thrive under these conditions. Another thing to keep in mind is that EM, activated by someone in Washington state, will be different than EM activated by say, myself, in Tennessee. An extension of this thinking is presented with the addition of bran ("bokashi"

or food scraps, soil, etc, which contain indigenous microbes and then you have something different in different areas but performance is similar.
I think EM is a revolutionary product and would be difficult to duplicate for anyone of us. I have seen rudimentary attempts that are effective, but I think some of the "peripheral" microbes may be absent as these primitive cultures are mostly lacto based and missing some of the specific yeasts and phototrophic (sp?) and purple non sulphur dudes.
To answer the question "Is EM the same as septic amendments or the like?" No, it t is not. Well, rather, I would imagine there is some crossover, but the septic amendment bags are usually not air tight so that lends itself to not being anaerobic and makes me think they are not the same.
I believe there is nothing out there like EM. I have actually seen the activated EM take the rust right off an old wrench of mine (due to its inherent antioxidant potentials). I have seen this stuff perform miracles with sick plants in my garden and works wonderfully as a preventive. My approach to compost piles has completely changed. For instance, I no longer turn compost. I simply add activated (fermented) EM as I am building the pile and smother it in straw, copiously wet it and leave it alone for a few weeks (summertime) and end up with wonderful compost.
The only downside to EM is that whatever it has inoculated likes to be buried. I personally do not like to disturb my soil (if possible) so I have to be ready to build my soil and mulch it whenever I apply the bokashi or compost.
I think the eminfo site is Vinny Pinto's. I think he is amazingly knowledgable about EM (he's different, for sure) and he recommends SCD World product as they offer the EM with the phototrophic microbes in the form of EM Plus. Great stuff, I must say.
Hope this helps...............

Peace,

I love EM. I make a second culture (about a galon) and use that to spray my food waste now instead of making the bokashi mix. It's very easy. And you can ferment and bury anything. There are no, no-no's. Maybe milk, but I bury my bad milk anyway. Other things that are too liquid I also just put right in the ground or around my plants. I use the compost tea as fertilizer as well. My trash doesn't stink anymore and I have free fertilizer for the garden and a soil enhance. You just can't beat that.

Godbless,
Anwar

Suppose there is a big bucket full of people poop and you put EM in it - what happens?

Wow, what a question Paul. At the very least it will reduce the horrible smell that would result from having collected a big bucket of people poop. If you are doing humanure I would recommend that you make bokashi and use that as the cover material. That will reduce any smell greatly. EM can be used in septic tanks. When you go to compost the humanure your turnover time for good compost should be quicker. Did that help?

Godbless,
Anwar

So .... the stuff in the bucket looks the same only it doesn't smell anymore?

That really depends paul. If you had to stick so much liquid EM in there that you ended up making a slurry then no. IT will be a slurry that should smell slightly. I've seen that if the stuff stinks already it will only diminish the smell to the point that you have to get your nose close to get the full weight of what you are smelling. If you use bokashi and inter-dispersed it/covered it over the poo as it gathered in there (same deal as a saw dust toilet) then it would look exactly like a saw dust toilet would look when full. And it would smell less than if you used saw dust which might mean no smell at all, unless of course you put your nose right up to it and take a good whiff. Did I answer your questions?

Godbless,
Anwar

i read this article last spring ....

Using the ordinary to cultivate the mysterious power of beneficial indigenous microorganisms

Like a cut-rate magician, Philippine farmer and scientist Gil Carandang teaches farmers how to use cheap vodka, generic brown sugar, milk, rice and local soil to harness local microorganisms as invisible workhorses on their farms.

http://www.rodaleinstitute.org/20040401/Hamilton

and have been experimenting making and using LB and EM/BIM, with great result from the LB. i had difficulty making the EM because i thought old produce and such was ok to use, but it isn't. i am planning on diligently starting some EM as soon as the weather warms here and using it in my garden this summer. i can't see buying EM when one can make it.

i have used the LB extensively on container plants i have in our cabin through this winter, such as Lemon tree, Avocado, Banana, etc... and they are thriving from it. i did a few trials on some ailing cukes in last year's gardens and they improved vastly.

from Gil Caradang....

"Here’s a simple method of collecting this type of microorganism. Lactic acid bacteria can be collected from the air. Pour rice wash (solution generated when you wash the rice with water) on a container like plastic pot with lid. Allow air gap at least 50-75% of the container. The key here is the air space. Cover the (not vacuum tight, allowing air still to move into the container) container with lid loosely. Put the container in a quiet area with no direct sunlight. Allow the rice was to ferment for at least 5-7 days. Lactic acid bacteria will gather in 5-7 days when temperature is 20-25 degrees C. Rice bran will be separated and float in the liquid, like a thin film, smelling sour. Strain and simply get the liquid. Put this liquid in a bigger container and pour ten parts milk. The original liquid has been infected with different type of microbes including lacto bacilli. And in order to get the pure lacto bacilli, saturation of milk will eliminate the other microorganisms and the pure lacto bacilli will be left. You may use skim or powdered milk, although fresh milk is best. In 5-7 days, carbohydrate, protein and fat will float leaving yellow liquid (serum), which contain the lactic acid bacteria. You can dispose the coagulated carbohydrate, protein and fat, add them to your compost pile or feed them to your animals. The pure lactic acid bacteria serum can be stored in the refrigerator or simply add equal amount of crude sugar (dilute with 1/3 water) or molasses. Do not use refined sugar as they are chemically bleached and may affect the lactic acid bacteria. The sugar or molasses will keep the lactic acid bacteria alive at room temperature. One to one ratio is suggested although sugar, regardless of quantity is meant simply, serving as food for the bacteria to keep them alive. Now, these lactic acid bacteria serum with sugar or molasses will be your pure culture. To use, you can dilute this pure culture with 20 parts water. Make sure water is not chemically treated with, like chlorine. Remember, we are dealing with live microorganisms and chlorine can kill them. This diluted form 1:20 ratio will be your basic lactic acid bacteria concoction. Two to four tablespoons added to water of one gallon can be used as your basic spray and can be added to water and feeds of animals. For bigger animals, the 2-4 tablespoons of this diluted lactic acid bacteria serum should be used without diluting it further with water. Lactic acid bacteria serum can be applied to plant leaves to fortify phyllosphere microbes, to soil and compost. Of course, it will help improve digestion and nutrient assimilation for animals and other applications mentioned before. For any kind of imbalance, be it in the soil or digestive system, lacto bacilli can be of help."

As I am currently proofing some sourdough I thought I might weigh in...

The majority of Lactobacillii are all eminently suited to use in this fashion, andwhile I agree some of the commercially available mixes are more than what we can do at home, I was also told I couldn't come up with a suitable sourdough starter on my own and should purchase one. I beg to differ; this one works just fine. As my wise old grampa used to say, "Never ask the barber if you need a haircut."

I have used the SDC EM and bokashi; we found we could use it to cut down about 80% of the smell from fish hydrolysate. It is commonly found soil organisms for the most part, and the anaerobic digestion offers a strong counterpart to regular composting for items that we cannot or should not be doing aerobically. The ability of these organisms to mitigate chemical or biological toxins in soil is well documented; the SDC rep told me about a paint factory in Columbia's where they had turned a thirty year old dumping ground (lead is just the start there; you can imagine the toxic soup) into reclaimable forest soil in three years (still wouldn't site my veg patch there, but it's better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick, as my wide old granny used to say...)

Paul your manure example is apt; EM is the BMP for manure lagoons, and no, you will begin to break down the fecal matter; I think this stuff could digest a brick. Oils, chemicals, you name it; this stuff does a number on it. And yet you can drink it because you already have most of these guys in your gut. I know at least three people using food grade EM as a dietary supplement (and, no, I don't know the difference; probably a Federal inspector :roll

.

Lactobaccillus; it's not just for making bread and yogurt anymore...

S

not original Em starter or liquid, but i thought i would share this with you all - http://bokashicomposting.com/

Let us suppose for a moment that I am too damn lazy to fiddle with raising my own EM glop.

So I get some EM glop from somebody and I'm gonna put some here and put some there and then be done with it.

How long does it last?

How much glop do I want for some common uses?

I'd like to point out that the hooch that rises from moist sourdough starter is a mix of lactobacilli and yeast, and in most cases the yeast will do no harm. I think there are many ways to kill yeast and leave the lactobacilli alive, juice from jicama leaves should theoretically work (it kills mitochondria, which bacteria don't have) but there are probably safer ways as well.

Similarly, the yellow serum described here is also exuded by yogurt. Commercial yogurt will, of course, have become adapted to industrial conditions, but if you make your own yogurt cheese with a local culture, the whey it releases will be pretty much indistinguishable from the serum already mentioned. If there's a tub of yogurt sitting in your fridge, pouring out the clear liquid to use is worth a try! That's what I do to ferment hot cereal overnight, for example.

LOL Joel; my sourdough starter was made from yogurt serum, sour cream, and kefir...

Great minds...

Cabbage is awesome for lacto b.

Hi,

(Posting for the first time on this forum...)

I have been experimenting with bokashi on a small scale, for nearly 2 years now. At the start I was very enthusiastic about it, but have cooled down a bit since.

Once I have the "final product" (i.e., a bucketful of organic matter "pickled" with the bokashi bran), the only way I can use it is by burying it deep under the ground (at least 1 ft deep). If the depth is not enough, the briney smell will attract foxes, which will dig it up without fail. But I'm trying to stick to no-dig practices, and bokashi seems to be slightly incompatible with that.

Any ideas...?

Levente: you can substitute weights for a lot of that depth, in the ground or in above-ground containers. No foxes where I am, but possums and raccoons will dig up bokashi if it's not under at least two inches of soil and a weighted cover.

New to the forum, so I don't know enough about your situation to know if that helps...

DSF

From what I've read over the last few weeks Bokashi EM seems to be Lactobacillus spp., yeast, and purple bacteria, all things that should be in a health compost pile already (Rhodopseudomonas palustris is found in worm castings for instance). So really it's just ad bran to your old compost and seal it up in a bucket with whatever, then bury it. It seems like it would be easier to just bury your meat and dairy and humanure in a hole and toss a handful of compost and some bran on it. I suspect that sawdust would work too. Even simply burying the nasty stuff would work (it has worked for thousands of years). So what is the benefit of adding an extra step?

Emerson, I have the same question - why wouldn't you just use a worm bin indoors? You don't need to find a place to bury anything...If you have enough house plants, you don't need to put the worm castings outdoors at all!

Not to mention having to buy the bokashi culture periodically.

Quick note; purple "bacteria" are actually not bacteria at all but archaea, an entirely different kingdom. It's sort of like calling trees "big mushrooms"...

Archaea were described in '78 and have been found to be even more responsible for nitrogen fixing and cycling than bacteria, as much as 300 times more effective. These are also the mast food source around black smokers at the ocean floor, and the majority of thermophiles in high temp compost.

Back to our originally scheduled program...

S

I'm pretty sure that they are Proteobacterium, which is a true bacterium, not an Archaean.

Emerson:

I didn't have a compost pile when I started bokashi; I live in a small aparment with no dedicated garden/lawn space, and the small balcony wouldn't fit a traditional composter. Bokashi was a quick small-space solution.

These days, I run a compost bin for the apartment complex, and have an outdoor wormery, but with no holes in the ground to make burial feasible, meats and dairies would still be problematic without bokashi. With it, I can feed the worms everything including fats and onions, or make hot-process compost in small batches instead of having to find fifteen or so gallons of dried leaves at a time.

Harvesting indigenous microorganisms instead of going the retail route is quite possible, though.

Necessary disclaimer here: I'm a big fan of bokashi, to the point that I write a blog about it (and the worms, and the compost, and the garden all that stuff goes to feed). Not a retailer, but probably not a wholly objective party. It's just so nice to have fresh vegetables growing where there used to be a trash can!

DSF

Thanks DSF. So in your situation, where there are animal protein scraps, you are using bokashi as an intermediate step before composting. That makes sense.

Can you talk some more about how you would capture the proper organisms from the wild?

Jacqueg: I've had variable success with a few different methods; the most reliable I've found begins with an aerobic-compost starter technique from http://www.fftc.agnet.org/library/pt/2003040/ ), to which I add the purple rhodos referenced up-thread. These are often present in soil, and on rain-wetted dried leaves--my favorite composting "brown"--but I 'm intolerant of off-odors, and couldn't see just hoping the odor-neutralizing rhodobacters would be there, so collected some potential sources (pond mud, rainwater collected in a bromeliad, etc.) and grew my own. Which was more work than I'm usually willing to do, but I wanted to know that it was possible. One of these days, I'll try again with rained-on leaves in place of half the carrier; no reason that shouldn't work.

DSF

Thanks for the site, it all sounds doable except for the bamboo! I wonder whether tall grasses would work? How do you tell whether you've captured the organisms you want? And, where's your blog?

Haven't tried different sitings, as there happens to be a stand of bamboo on the property; I
assume, though, that it just needs to rest undisturbed in a relatively porous layer of organic matter over healthy soil, in a place with some moisture and filtered light.

As far as confirming microbes: mycelia are easy, I wait for acetobacters. In my region, in the summer, the first step takes two or three days longer than in the original instructions, so I add an extra three to five days to each step and assume success. Not fancy, but it works. For the rhodos, I found a high-school science project that didn't need anything not already in a kitchen except a blacklight (though I'd prefer a quicker method!). After which, since I'm most comfortable with the EM bokashi method, I mix my rhodobacter water with a little molasses and add that to my soil-and-bran carrier, and let it ferment together to make bokashi bran.

Should probably put that on the blog, shouldn't I?

One of these days. http://bokashislope.blogspot.com

DSF

I've been wondering why people didn't talk about EMs on this forum. It's pretty popular in my area and on the Phoenix permaculture Guild forums. It's a mixture of lacto bacteria, soil bacteria, and photosynthesis bacteria first created by some Japanese guy studying beneficial bacteria and for some reason threw a bunch of different cultures on the lawn and it grew like crazy. He then began studying the synthesis of different kinds of bacteria and came up with this mix. It hasn't really taken off in the US like it has in Japan and some other places. I 've played with it a bit although not much luck with bokashi (some people do). I brew it in 2 liter soda bottles and use it for all kinds of things. Keeps mosquitos from breeding in standing water, keeps the toilet and sink drains from smelling. I use it in the bath and love the results--better than epsom salts. I was composting in pits and used it to help the anaerobic composting process and it worked fabulously. It's so dry here in the summer (6in rain, 80in evaporation a year) you have to water compost pile most days to keep it from just drying out so I was experimenting with composting in pits where i already had a soaker hose going.

I just put it in one those cheap garden sprayers for miracle grow and spray it on the garden. All the garden plants seems to absolutely love it although I have never done any controlled study type projects. It helped keep aphids down. In Japan they brew it to dump in polluted rivers and supposedly cleaned up quite a few. I could add more but I have a lot of peaches I want to process before they go bad.

Lets be a bit careful about adding exotic micro-organisms to waterways.
Yes they've added EM to waterways and had some success, but there have also been reports of it messing up micro biological ecosystems.
I'm not saying that it's evil, but I am saying that it's not the Cure-all-magic-bullet that some of its more evangelical users say that it is.

paul wheaton wrote:
Suppose there is a big bucket full of people poop and you put EM in it - what happens?

You have to put the lid on and seal it airtight, but it would ferment into some mighty potent fertilizer. Be careful where you point that thing.

Best case scenario would be a toilet setup which was pretty airtight (rubber seal on the toilet lid?) which is kept closed, and use a cup of EM sawdust or the like after each deposit.
When it is (relatively) full, remove the receptacle and seal for around 2 weeks to be on the safe side.

You can stretch the EM solution to about 100x its original volume in "Activated EM" without problems (ok, maybe some hiccups while you get the right temperature environment etc worked out), and then use that to make mountains of Bokashi.
Once you get into your rhythm with making activated EM or your Bokashi mix, it only takes a couple of minutes a week.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96fSXccQx9Q
It doesn't have to be wheatbran, sawdust and newspaper have been used as the carrying medium, but the Micro organisms will need a little more molasses/sugar for nutrients.

I've used the whey from my milk Kefir and some molasses to inoculate a bunch of wheat bran. Just finished filling a bucket with scraps toonight so i guess i'll see how it worked in 2 weeks.

I've been using whey molasses and worm leachate to hose down mountains of duck poo, it breaks down the nasties something fierce, I had two ponds lime green with duck blessing and tipped 2 litres in each 350 gallon pond. The green was gone in a week and the first few inches has started to clear even with all the feathers and new ducklings pooping like it was their job. I wouldn't call it a vertical 55 gallon drum of poo, but I been soaking the deep mulch rabbit pen and adding bedding and I havn't smelt any urine any pooeys or seen any flies since. If your already on the cheese making train I dont see a purpose in inoculating bran and having to dry it when you can just spritz your veggie scraps as they go into the counter-top bucket and move em out to a drum with layers of dry material when it's full.

The one thing I notice when collecting urine is adding the whey/leach/mollases to the urine is it doesn't gas off amonia so the bacteria have successfully converted it to nitrite's similar to aquaponic systems. But if I leave the jug by the heat vent which I had to try things get fizzy like when lacto fermenting food, I guess theres a temperature point where things start to bubble similar to leaving the mason jar's at 70f for 3 days till fizz then putting it in the fridge to stop the process before I get booze. I mix the urine down about 10-1 and maybe add half cup more innoculant and tested it on leaves in my greenhouse to see if it was safe. Last time I fiddled with using store urine dilluted and sprayed leaves by accident everything got crimply. Theres been no problems, yellow leaves turned green, algae on the soil disappeared and anything that was decaying started to break down super quickly. I put some alfalfa meal i had made on the soil surface and spritzed it and everything turned bokashi white fungal hyphae and is disappearing into the soil.

what I can't seem to do is find a list of what common bacteria are found in vermicastings, the words beneficial bacteria don't really mean anything and I've been going through the post mentioning specific bacteria in commercial Em products and want to see how many share origins from worm exudate's.

So do you just pre-mix the whey and molasses and the leachate and store it that way? Sounds promising. The people upstairs in the house I live in have dogs produce literally mountains of dog poo so i am interested in turning it into something more innocuous.

Yeah I've done it premix and I've done it live mix, it mostly depends on how many jugs i have available. When i don't i just get some from the worm bin, its always got a full jug below.
As for leacheate being full of toxins, that has more to do with bin management so that blanket statement people are putting out their is just another generalist precautionary argument for the mass.
I also have a large flow through bin so about 7 feet long, 2 feet wide, and 4 feet high. the base is always manure, the bedding is compost and the additives go from there. Any drippy uncertainty flows downwards and get's locked up in more mature layers so whatever i'm getting at the bottom is from finished worm castings. I don't start taking leach until the 3rd month from setup but after that point the bin will always be in the right gradation of decomposition to take at any time. Like i said I had a bad history with foliar anything so when aged urine didn't produce negative effects when applied strong I knew my nitrogen was in the correct state for plant absorption.