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Fukuoka-Bonfils winter wheat method for chicken feed

Tony Elswick


Joined: Aug 10, 2011
Posts: 73
Is it possible to do a fukuoka style wheat, rice, and barley on a quarter acre of land?

Alison Thomas
volunteer

Joined: Jul 22, 2009
Posts: 933
Location: France
    
    8
Perma Republican wrote:
Is it possible to do a fukuoka style wheat, rice, and barley on a quarter acre of land?


Whyever not? If you're returning all the unused parts of the plants back to the patch then surely the size of the land doesn't matter. That's what I'm hoping anyway as my test-bed isn't much bigger than that 

My question on the Bonfils method... how do you get started with that clover?  I have a field of meadow at the moment that I bravely oversowed last October fukuoka style - it germinated, grew about 10cm (4 inches) then vanished.  We got not one ear of wheat.  It was a modern variety however so I'm prepared to try again.  But do you need to sow that clover into tilled land to get started, or just sow it right onto the pasture?

Zemljak - wonderful photos.  Where are you? I noticed that one of your photos had a sign 'epautre' so I wondered if you were somewhere in France?

atty - looking forward to that list.  I'm struggling so much to find heritage seeds here.

hvala - do you eat a sort of bread made from your grains? I only ask as we eat lots of bread here, based mainly on wheat but we add a proportion of rye, or buckwheat, or rumex. Apart from using buckwheat in bread or pancakes, I'm struggling for ideas as I can't get the husks off whilst still keeping the grains whole. Plus oats - how do you dehull those? I'd love to get oats going Fukuoka/Bonfils method too.
Jack Shawburn


Joined: Jan 18, 2011
Posts: 230
Having an interest in developing a piece of land with a mix of grains, N fixers that currently is covered only in Heteropogon contortus grass.

I found this article that explains a bit more about the Bonfils technique.
http://files.uniteddiversity.com/Permaculture/Bonfils-Winter_Wheat_Physiology.pdf

I could not download The Wheatsmith.

I think I need to grow other hardy covers first to improve the soil structure.
Thinking of Radishes, Cowpeas and try to get Clover established before trying wheat or other cereals.

All of this on dryland, surface sown and covered with the straw from cutting the grass, no-till and 20" of rain pa"
Alison Thomas
volunteer

Joined: Jul 22, 2009
Posts: 933
Location: France
    
    8
Somewhere on the forum someone posted a link to a book (thank you that person) and on the webpage was this link to a no-till farm.

http://www.sare.org/Learning-Center/Multimedia/Videos-from-the-Field/Adding-Cover-Crops-to-a-No-Till-System

Lots of it is wonderfully encouraging - I want to say that all of it is wonderfully encouraging but all of a sudden the green of the cover crops isn't there anymore. I've learnt that lots of no-till farms still use herbicides but would they use them if they were working with SARE?
Jack Shawburn


Joined: Jan 18, 2011
Posts: 230
...and on that page was a link to this free book
Building Soils for Better Crops
http://www.sare.org/Learning-Center/Books/Building-Soils-for-Better-Crops-3rd-Edition
Thanks Alison - Just the right thing for me to view this morning.
..and then on that page a link to the SARE learining center with a LOT of nice goodies
http://www.sare.org/Learning-Center/Books
Brian Bales


Joined: Jan 13, 2011
Posts: 90
Will cereals like spelt, kamut and winter wheat (sonora) cross if grown next to each other? I'm planning to plant a long bed of wheat in an open space in my orchard using the Bonfils method. I've read that wheat is largely self fertile so types crossing doesn't happen "often" but what does that really mean in terms of small backyard plots?
Brian Bales


Joined: Jan 13, 2011
Posts: 90
Something else thats been on my mind. Would there be any benefit/advantage to making a hugel type bed for planting cereals in? Not exactly stacked as high and a lot wider (something like 10' x 30' x 2' than the usual hugelbeds. For the work that would go into something like that would it be worth the effort? Thoughts?
Jordan Lowery
volunteer

Joined: Sep 26, 2009
Posts: 1528
Location: zone 7
    
  11
no not really ^^^, grasses prefer bacterial bases systems, hugel beds are fungal based. too much moisture and fertility will make for tall plants that will lodge( fall over)


The ultimate goal of farming is not the growing of crops, but the cultivation and perfection of human beings. - Masanobu Fukuoka
Kay Bee


Joined: Oct 10, 2009
Posts: 471
Location: Jackson County, OR (Zone 7)
Not sure if there is an advantage to the hugel beds for cereals, but it has worked inadvertently for me.  The cover crops of wheat, pea, rye, clover and vetch grew nicely on our long hugel row beds throughout the summer. 

We didn't add any manure to our hugel beds when starting them.  Just fresh and rotten logs topped with topsoil.

The wheat and rye are greening back up in many areas of our beds now that the rains have started to come back.  I'm expecting most if not all of the cover crops have reseeded themselves.


"Limitation is the mother of good management", Michael Evanari

Location: Southwestern Oregon (Jackson County), Zone 7
deano Martin


Joined: Oct 11, 2011
Posts: 25
Hi all
I've been away for a few days, so missed out on the most recent discussions.
1. Question on crossing wheat, and old varieties.  The John Innes Research centre grows trial plots alongside each other, so there shouldn't be any problem with growing them together.. There are some pictures if you follow the link, along with details of the varieties that they trial.
http://www.jic.ac.uk/GERMPLAS/Cereal%20landraces.htm
I contacted them recently for varieties to try, and am hopeful that they will provide me with some. Please don't all harass them at once for material as i'd like to get mine first, and the relevant guy is away.
2. Establishing Clover. it's possible to establish clover in pasture, but are you planning to grow the grain in pasture too? There has been some stuff published recently about sowing grain directly into pasture, and then grazing livestock on it afterwards. The links below discuss it on a farm scale.

http://milkwood.net/2010/12/07/why-pasture-cropping-is-such-a-big-deal/
http://milkwood.net/2011/10/06/why-joel-salatin-is-so-excited-by-pasture-cropping/
http://milkwood.net/2011/10/11/folks-this-aint-normal-joel-salatin-book-review/#more-5063
I'm not sure how it's done on a smaller scale, but it should be possible. For getting the clover established, cut the pasture short, and remove the grass, before sowing the clover. Once the clover starts to get growing, give the whole lot another cut, again removing the biomass. that shouild be enough to get it going. However, if you're trying to get a low growing white clover growing in vigorous grass, it will always struggle to get enough light.
Hope that helps
Deano


Lincolnshire Wolds. England. Anaerobic clay, on a SSW facing slope.
Eli Rogosa


Joined: Jan 17, 2012
Posts: 1
I collected landrace wheats in Europe, and have been selecting them for health and beauty over four years.
These tall, robust heritage wheat seeds are available on: growseed.org
Lawrence London


Joined: Jan 07, 2012
Posts: 34
Location: North Carolina

Related Resources
============

See these archives:

souscayrous
souscayrous' biological farming & permaculture collection
http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech/souscayrous
Collections
Emilia Hazelip's Synergistic Agriculture - Collected Papers
http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech/souscayrous/EmiliaHazelip-SynergisticAgriculture
Marc Bonfils' Agricultural Research
http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech/souscayrous/MarcBonfils-AgriculturalResearch
souscayrous' albums (the two above) on PicasaWeb
http://picasaweb.google.com/souscayrous

NATURAL AGRICULTURE: WINTER WHEAT
IN NORTHERN EUROPE ACCORDING TO
THE FUKUOKA-BONIFILS METHOD
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Fux-rgudj32vY5dwAy7Lg63MelxrphaQIHSsZ1xmlDo/edit
http://groups.google.com/group/mednf/attach/70c9490695d57e35/Nat+Ag+Winter+Wheat+in+N+Europe.doc?part=5
http://groups.google.com/group/mednf/attach/70c9490695d57e35/Nat+Ag+Winter+Wheat+in+N+Europe.doc?part=5&view=1

The Mediterranean Natural Farming (Google Group)
http://groups.google.com/group/mednf
A Group dedicated to the Regreening of the Mediterranean Basin through Natural Farming
Group email
mednf@googlegroups.com
Group topics
http://groups.google.com/group/mednf/topics

This is THE site for Seedball information - I think it is a revised Jim Bones' Seedball website.
On Seedballs
https://sites.google.com/site/onseedballs/
https://sites.google.com/site/onseedballs/


Please visit, comment, edit:
https://sites.google.com/site/onseedballs/
Please, make yourself available for sharing your knowledge on
seedballs at:
https://sites.google.com/site/onseedballs/who
Network if you want:
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=62396137562

PLEASE VISIT OUR WEBSITE www.natuecofarmingscience.com to have new concept
on SEEDBALLS

http://partapstoriesforall.blogspot.com/2008/10/introduction-to-masanobu-fukuokas.html

http://www.naturalfarming.us

The fukuoka farming mailing list may have what you want. I am sure your
question would be answered there. You can also browse the message
archives without joining. There may be documents to read and download
that will be of use also.

fukuoka_farming · Fukuoka Farming
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fukuoka_farming/
Description
The Fukuoka Farming Mailing List was created to discuss Masanobu
Fukuoka's revolutionary method of natural farming. Discussion of
Fukuoka's books, ongoing projects in Fukuoka Farming, creating and
dispersing seed balls, and anything else to do with Masanobu Fukuoka,
his life and work are all encouraged. This list was primarily created as
a place for people interested in Fukuoka's methods to network and share
resources. Let's help change the way people think about growing food.

Message archives:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fukuoka_farming/messages

Here is a list of contents of the files section:

directory Agricultural Research
By Marc Bonfils onestrawreso...
Offline Aug 7, 2007
directory Bhaskar Save Farm
Photos and Videos from Bhaskar Save Farm shashikumar123
Offline Feb 16, 2011
directory forest_rights
Forest Rights Act 2006 & Rules 2008 sumant_jo
Offline Jan 29, 2011
directory Fukuoka books
Books written by Masanobu Fukuoka andresrattur
Offline Aug 6, 2005
directory Nutrition
Nutrition writing in support of the detail of Fukuoka-san's
approach kyuusohi_u
Offline Apr 2, 2006
directory Synergistic Agriculture
By Emilia Hazelip onestrawreso...
Offline Aug 6, 2007
application/pdf ---vital attributes---predict successional
changes---1980.pdf
Keywords- Seeds; Germination; Ecosystem natural states, natural changes,
state & transition diagrams, meta-stable states... 1483 KB
macropneuma
Offline Mar 12, 2008
application/pdf 192.pdf
White Peter (2003) Agriculture: was Australia a bystander? The Fifth
World Archaeological Congress. Theme: Empowerment and Exploitation:
North-South and South-South Archaeological Encounters. Session:
Inherited models and the denial of prehistory: challenging existing
concepts of agriculture. Be aware of distribution restrictions therein,
but that is freely distr. in Google Scholar.
http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&lr=&q=cache:MT8vXyKw_eQJ:godot.unisa.edu.au/wac/pdfs/192.pdf
139 KB animaphile
Offline Apr 6, 2006
application/zip Ag. Tools.zip
Volunteers in Asia pedal drum thresher and other agricultural
tools 3998 KB crandrei
Offline Nov 24, 2007
application/ms-word AGRICULTURE'S TWO-EDGED SWORD.doc
Diamond, Jared 1991 AGRICULTURE'S TWO-EDGED SWORD -chapter 10 in- THE
RISE AND FALL OF THE THIRD CHIMPANZEE 54 KB macropneuma
Offline Mar 17, 2008
text/text AGRICULTURE'S TWO-EDGED SWORD.rtf
Diamond, Jared 1991 AGRICULTURE'S TWO-EDGED SWORD -chapter 10 in- THE
RISE AND FALL OF THE THIRD CHIMPANZEE 44 KB macropneuma
Offline Mar 17, 2008
application/pdf Chou 2009 David Mas Masumoto and Organic Nothingness.pdf
Chou, S 2009 Pruning the Past, Shaping the Future- David Mas Masumoto
and Organic Nothingness. MELUS 34 (2) 157-74 -discusses Fukuoka with
well informed insights and a few mistakes. 324 KB animaphile
Offline Aug 10, 2011
image/ CSEB comparison.jpg
Performance comparison between various types of constructions
techniques 374 KB sumant_jo
Offline Jul 14, 2011
text/text Fukuoka's Four Principals
Natural Farming's Four Principals, taken from "The Elysian Fields and
Pasture Project", A Natural Farming based Pasture Project
6 KB lakecountryf...
Offline Nov 30, 2007
application/zip Fukuoka_Farming Messages 1-1000.zip
Fukuoka_Farming Messages 1-1000 : an archive you can download to your
computer and use the file search facility to search for text within
files to find info from Fukuoka_Farming while not using internet
time. 1041 KB animaphile
Offline Feb 20, 2004
application/zip Fukuoka_Farming Messages 1001-2000.zip
Fukuoka_Farming Messages 1001-2000 : an archive you can download to your
computer and use the file search facility to search for text within
files to find info from Fukuoka_Farming while not using internet
time. 1221 KB animaphile
Offline Feb 20, 2004
application/zip Fukuoka_Farming Messages 2001-3000.zip
Fukuoka_Farming Messages 2001-3000 : an archive you can download to your
computer and use the file search facility to search for text within
files to find info from Fukuoka_Farming while not using internet
time. 1152 KB animaphile
Offline Feb 23, 2004
application/zip Fukuoka_Farming Messages 3001-4000.zip
Fukuoka_Farming Messages 3001-4000 : an archive you can download to your
computer and use the file search facility to search for text within
files to find info from Fukuoka_Farming while not using internet
time. 1262 KB animaphile
Offline Apr 5, 2006
application/zip Fukuoka_Farming Messages 4001-5000.zip
Fukuoka_Farming Messages 4001-5000 : an archive you can download to your
computer and use the file search facility to search for text within
files to find info from Fukuoka_Farming while not using internet
time. 874 KB animaphile
Offline Apr 5, 2006
application/zip Fukuoka_Farming Messages 5001-5500.zip
Fukuoka_Farming Messages 5001-5500 : an archive you can download to your
computer and use the file search facility to search for text within
files to find info from Fukuoka_Farming while not using internet
time. 584 KB animaphile
Offline Apr 5, 2006
application/pdf Hillman et al-Late Glacial Cereal Cult -Abu
Hureyra-2001.pdf
Unsustainable Agriculture forced by Younger Dryas -a throwback to a temp
arid, mini Ice Age ca 13000y ago for a few 100y, then addction to drugs
in, promotion of & propagation of the desperation foods of the cold
aridity. -A more accurate update & restriction of Wadley & Martin (1993)
truth to the Fertile Crescent & derived agricultures. Hillman G R Hedges
A Moore S Colledge & P Pettitt (2001) New evidence of Lateglacial cereal
cultivation at Abu Hureyra on the Euphrates Holocene 11 (4)
383-393 294 KB kyuusohi_u
Offline Apr 2, 2006
application/pdf Jared Diamond Worst Mistake in the History of human
race.pdf
"The Worst Mistake In The History Of The Human Race" by Jared Diamond,
Prof. UCLA School of Medicine - publ. in Discover (Magazine) - May 1987,
pp. 64-66 142 KB kyuusohi_u
Offline Apr 2, 2006
application/pdf Johnson97FunctMycorrhizAssocMutualismParasitCont.pdf
Johnson Nancy C. (1997) Functioning of mycorrhizal associations along
the mutualism–parasitism continuum. New Phytologist 279 KB
macropneuma
Offline Dec 4, 2008
application/pdf Kato - Body and Earth Are Not Two.pdf
“Body and Earth Are Not Two”: Kawaguchi Yoshikazu’s NATURAL FARMING and
American Agricultural Writers - KATO, SADAMICHI - An old phrase which
has recently become popular again in Japan is “Shindo-fuji.” This means,
literally translated, “Body and Earth Are Not Two.” That is, our human
bodies and the land from which we get our food are closely connected.
From:
http://www.lang.nagoya-u.ac.jp/proj/genbunronshu/25-1/kato.pdf
93 KB kyuusohi_u
Offline May 9, 2006
application/pdf Langton, Marcia (1999) in Visions of Future Landscapes.pdf
Marcia Langton (1999) 'The fire that is the centre of each family'
landscapes of the ancients. in A Hamblin (ed) Visions of Future
Landscapes. Proceedings of the Australian Academy of Science 2-5 May
1999 Canberra 169-178. Intro at:
http://www.daff.gov.au/content/publications.cfm?Category=Bureau%20of%20Rural%20Sciences&ObjectID=4F5E088D-E9BF-4AFD-819DCC63FEF98696
335 KB animaphile
Offline Apr 5, 2006
audio/ Masanobu Fukuoka.mp3
A poem-song that I created about Masanobu Fukuoka. Enjoy!
2893 KB roots_of_trees
Offline Apr 16, 2011
application/ Mr.Kailashamurthy.docx
26 KB sundaresanma
Offline Jun 1, 2009
application/pdf one-straw-revolution.pdf
One Straw Revolution - reforrmatted 206 KB ecology2001a
Offline Feb 10, 2005
application/pdf Perspectives on Diamond's 'Collapse' Curr Anthropology
2005.pdf
Scholarly reviews by experts in specialisations Jared Diamond writes
about: in (2005) "Perspectives on Diamond's 'Collapse -How Societies
Choose to Fail or Succeed'" in Current Anthropology 46 Suppl (Dec)
S91-S99.pdf 87 KB kyuusohi_u
Offline Apr 2, 2006
application/pdf Sanchez Soil Fertility and Hunger in Africa.pdf
Sanchez- Soil Fertility and Hunger in Africa 105 KB
eccentrik_idiot
Offline Nov 15, 2006
application/zip Seedballs.zip
seedball drum mixer 600 KB crandrei
Offline Jun 19, 2007
text/text Syn.Ag. Handbook excerpts.
Vegetable production with soil's self-fertility 2 KB emhazz
Offline Mar 10, 2002
application/pdf Terrel 2006 Human Biogeography___our place in nature.pdf
But one fine topical academic example paper on Humans being part of
nature, rather than above/apart from/opposed to nature. In other words
nature(s)-cultures, rather than nature(s) versus/opposed to cultures.
Also nature can be plural natures. "Human Biogeography: evidence of our
place in nature" by a fine author John E. Terrel in an peer-reviewed
edited international science journal "Journal of Biogeography"
2006. 281 KB kyuusohi_u
Offline Jul 4, 2007
application/pdf The Food Race - One of Those Races No One Can Win.pdf
this is the paper version of the video documentary 'Food Production and
Population Growth' Daniel Quinn has made with a colleague. It talks of
the connection between food and human population. 39 KB
sumant_jo
Offline Feb 23, 2011
application/zip Thresher.zip
homebuilt threshing device for small grain 2060 KB crandrei
Offline Nov 6, 2007
application/pdf Traditional Foods meeting Nutrient Needs-Wild Plants.pdf
Grivetti LE & BM Ogle (2000) Value of traditional foods in meeting
macro-and micronutrient needs: the wild plant connection. NUTRITION
RESEARCH REVIEWS 13: 31-46. See:
http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&lr=&q=link:fvSG2FcwAJAJ:scholar.google.com/
131 KB animaphile
Offline Apr 5, 2006
application/pdf Typha in Oz.pdf
Typha spp. in Australia as harvested or naturally farmed by Indigenous
Ozzies as an example from Oz of support for M. Fukuoka way
937 KB animaphile
Offline Jun 17, 2003
application/pdf White Robert The sustainability myth.pdf
White, Robert (2006) "The sustainability myth [Viable farming and
sustainable farming are not the same thing.]" _Australasian Science_
(2000), v.27, no.4, May 2006: 30-31. 178 KB macropneuma
Offline Apr 1, 2008
application/pdf Wilson EO (1987) The Little Things That Run the World.pdf
Wilson EO (1987) The Little Things That Run the World (The Importance
and Conservation of Invertebrates). Conservation Biology (Scientific
Journal) Vol. 1 No. 4 344-346 See:
http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&lr=&q=link:NyDiPkMsYcoJ:scholar.google.com/


Lawrence London lfljvenaura@gmail.com
Venaura Farm http://venaurafarm.blogspot.com
Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com
Permaculture Mailing List http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
Mariah Wallener


Joined: Feb 02, 2011
Posts: 144
Location: Cowichan Valley, Vancouver Island, Canada
Am I reading this thread right? I would love a method for converting a field into a self-harvesting chicken restaurant. Send the birds in and cut way down on commercial feed. Is that the idea?

If so, I'll be reading with interest. Hubby and don't eat grains but I'd happily grow them if it meant feeding chickens from home.


Permie Newbie. ruralaspirations.wordpress.com
Jeffrey Hodgins


Joined: Nov 14, 2011
Posts: 166
Location: Yucatan Puebla Ontario BC
Does anyone know who's selling the seeds needed and could you post a link to the their site and perhaps provide a variety name.


Diversified Food forest maker . Fill every niche and you'll have less weeds (the weeds are the crop too). Fruit, greens, wild harvest, and nuts as staple. Food processing and preservation are key to self self-sufficiency. Never eat a plant without posetive identification and/or consulting an expert.
John Polk
steward

Joined: Feb 20, 2011
Posts: 6573
Location: Moving to: NE Washington USDA zone 5 Western steppes to the Rockies
    
135
A couple seed houses that deal with some older, heritage cereals:

http://sustainableseedco.com/Heirloom-Grain-Seed/

http://www.adaptiveseeds.com/catalog/6

David Miller


Joined: Sep 13, 2011
Posts: 239
Location: Harrisonburg, VA
I'm planning on implementing the BonFils method in two different aspects. One for my consumption of flour/bread. Second bed for chickens. The first bed will be a standard approach (if such a word can be used for an uncommon system approach), clover with wheat every 90cm off center. The second bed will be clover, mulberry trees, barley, corn, sorghum and lots of greens like borage, yarrow etc. Wish me luck, I'll keep you posted.
                    


Joined: Sep 22, 2011
Posts: 4
jackommm McCoy wrote:Thanks guys.
I checked Banatka wheat, and it used to be cultivated in Poland in the beginning of XX century, but now is out of market...still some hobbyists might grow it, but no trace of them yet.



Hi Janeck

Did you get any Banatka in this season? There seems to be plenty in genebanks http://genbank.vurv.cz/ewdb/asp/ewdb_d1.asp?START=21&fname=Banatka&d1=&d2=&d3=&t2=&avail_code= I don't know a way to extract from VIR in Russia but German, Dutch, French, Polish, Czech etc just find their website, fill in their order form and they will send you for free however many you order - only 10g each, but with so many examples of this line you will already have quite a lot in the first season.

I happened to come across yesterday mention of Hungarian Wheat "Banutka", being grown in Vermont USA with very favourable mention for baking http://www.localbanquet.com/issues/years/2010/spring10/heritage_wheat_sp10.html - there are accessions of this across Europe also, but do you think or know whether this would be same as "Banatka" - just a Hungarian version of "Banatka" name?

BTW have been given four lines of perennial wheat currently growing on in root trainers but intend to try a little Marc Bonfils style experiment with these as although not mentioned by Bonfils seems to me to add up if these perennials are any good - or are just experiments in Progress, 3 are from US and one is bizarrely from Lysenko's mates in old USSR.

yours
Andy

Milan Broz


Joined: Feb 24, 2011
Posts: 85
Location: Croatia
I'll try a method this year. I have a meadow now and planing to sow clover and lucerne as soon as snow melt down on the field, then mow field and sow legumes again, and in early summer I'll throw some rye, wheat and spelt. Maybe I'll mow the field again in the summer, if native grass is outcompeting cereals. Hopefully, I'll establish cultures, providing them enough light untill winter. Next year they should be in advance over native grass, which I can encourage sowing more clover if neccessary. Ofcourse, before harvesting cereals, I'll sow new ones in between the rows. It seems I'm guessing couple of things:

1. Clover and lucerne can be established only by throwing seed over meadow? Birds wont eat most of the seeds?
2. Already established grass will loose it's advantage over clover if I mown regularly?
3. Wheat can be established only by sowing through clover carpet? Soaking seeds before sowing?
4. Wheat can tolerate mowing untill fal/winter?
5. Established wheat (old robust variety) will outcompete weeds?


Permaculture in Croatia:
www.perforum.info
Travis Philp
volunteer

Joined: Dec 28, 2009
Posts: 951
Location: ZONE 5a Lindsay Ontario Canada
    
    8
I'm wondering about the timing of the cutting of the clover, I'm assuming white clover is the way to go as zemljak mentioned. So, the clover is scythed in spring but the white clover I've seen doesn't grow more than 4-5 inches tall. So scything is done when the wheat is under 2-3 inches, or is it done very soon after it sprouts? In my head I'm seeing this as being some annoyingly precision scythe work if not done right after wheat sprouting.


http://www.greenshireecofarms.com
Zone 5a in Central Ontario, Canada
Milan Broz


Joined: Feb 24, 2011
Posts: 85
Location: Croatia
Or you can scythe wheat without permanent damage? What happens with the wheat if it grows 1-2 ft tall and you scythe it to the ground, together with clover and weed? Talking about first year when you have only one generation of wheat. All other years you should have 2 generations since new one is sown before harvesting old one.

Anyway, if wheat is sown in rows, you can pass with a mower between rows. Only you have to plan this. Measure your mower, and sow wheat 2-3 inches more apart.
Zoran Petrov


Joined: Jul 14, 2010
Posts: 27
Location: Norway/Serbia
atty McCoy wrote:
jackommm McCoy wrote:Thanks guys.
I checked Banatka wheat, and it used to be cultivated in Poland in the beginning of XX century, but now is out of market...still some hobbyists might grow it, but no trace of them yet.



Hi Janeck

Did you get any Banatka in this season? There seems to be plenty in genebanks http://genbank.vurv.cz/ewdb/asp/ewdb_d1.asp?START=21&fname=Banatka&d1=&d2=&d3=&t2=&avail_code= I don't know a way to extract from VIR in Russia but German, Dutch, French, Polish, Czech etc just find their website, fill in their order form and they will send you for free however many you order - only 10g each, but with so many examples of this line you will already have quite a lot in the first season.

I happened to come across yesterday mention of Hungarian Wheat "Banutka", being grown in Vermont USA with very favourable mention for baking http://www.localbanquet.com/issues/years/2010/spring10/heritage_wheat_sp10.html - there are accessions of this across Europe also, but do you think or know whether this would be same as "Banatka" - just a Hungarian version of "Banatka" name?


yours
Andy



Andy I think it is not "Banutka" but "Bankut" - which is Hungerian name for crossed Banatka. Banatka is truly the only pure, authentic European heritage wheat but Bankut is not - see "Plant improvement in Hungary goes back to over one and a half century, but its main target has always been wheat improvement. Originally the aim was to raise yields and to produce drought-resistant species, which was later replaced by attempts to create flintier grain and firmer stalks.The improvement of the Bánkút 1201 and 1205 species started in 1921, and in 1933 the species was pronounced the world’s best wheat at the world grain exhibition in Regina, Canada. The Bánkút species was widely produced until the 1960s and remains one of the best stock for improvement." Bankut

I am happy to announce that we had very successful harvest of Banatka. I will share some photos of the fields that were conventionally sowed with 200kg seeds of Banatka (wrong method as Banatka has about 20- 40 shoots from a single seed) with yield of cca1500 kg per 0.5 ha. Of course no fertilizers or herbicides.







But we also tried Bonfils method and that was big success - from 40 seeds on one plot we got 5,5kg!





Now we are going to sow 0.5 ha Banatka (it is truly the only pure European heritage wheat) I will also post in coming days lab results of content of Banatka.

www.biodinamika.org
David Miller


Joined: Sep 13, 2011
Posts: 239
Location: Harrisonburg, VA
It looks a lot like maris widgeon wheat.
Zoran Petrov


Joined: Jul 14, 2010
Posts: 27
Location: Norway/Serbia
David Miller wrote:It looks a lot like maris widgeon wheat.


Except that Maris Widgeon was developed in 1964 - it will be interested to see what crosses they used.

I forgot that straw of Banatka is excellent to feed cattle and there is a lot of it!
Rick Freeman


Joined: Jan 08, 2012
Posts: 102
Location: NW Montana, Hardiness Zone 4b
This link will let you download the article. downloadable fukuoka-bonfils winter wheat

Jack Shawburn wrote:Having an interest in developing a piece of land with a mix of grains, N fixers that currently is covered only in Heteropogon contortus grass.

I found this article that explains a bit more about the Bonfils technique.
http://files.uniteddiversity.com/Permaculture/Bonfils-Winter_Wheat_Physiology.pdf

I could not download The Wheatsmith.

I think I need to grow other hardy covers first to improve the soil structure.
Thinking of Radishes, Cowpeas and try to get Clover established before trying wheat or other cereals.

All of this on dryland, surface sown and covered with the straw from cutting the grass, no-till and 20" of rain pa"


Rick Freeman

Interface Forestry, l.l.c. http://interfaceforestry.com
rick@interfaceforestry.com
Zoran Petrov


Joined: Jul 14, 2010
Posts: 27
Location: Norway/Serbia
Rick Freeman wrote:This link will let you download the article. downloadable fukuoka-bonfils winter wheat

Jack Shawburn wrote:Having an interest in developing a piece of land with a mix of grains, N fixers that currently is covered only in Heteropogon contortus grass.

I found this article that explains a bit more about the Bonfils technique.
http://files.uniteddiversity.com/Permaculture/Bonfils-Winter_Wheat_Physiology.pdf

I could not download The Wheatsmith.

I think I need to grow other hardy covers first to improve the soil structure.
Thinking of Radishes, Cowpeas and try to get Clover established before trying wheat or other cereals.

All of this on dryland, surface sown and covered with the straw from cutting the grass, no-till and 20" of rain pa"


This is not the same. Try this link for 3 pounds - http://www.moodie.biz/wheatsmith.html
deano Martin


Joined: Oct 11, 2011
Posts: 25
I posted an update to my Bonfils trials in the 'other' Bonfils thread with a link to my blog post which gives some more detail.
http://deanom.wordpress.com/2012/08/02/polyculture-update-and-small-scale-grain-harvested/
if you're reading about the system, here, you may want to cross refer with the other thread, or perhaps an ADMIN could join the two threads so that all of the |Bonfils stuff is together?
Deano
Lawrence London


Joined: Jan 07, 2012
Posts: 34
Location: North Carolina

This seems to be a complete version of the original document translated into English

Winter wheat and its physiology according to the Fukuoka-Bonfils method.
http://files.uniteddiversity.com/Permaculture/Bonfils-Winter_Wheat_Physiology.pdf


How to grow winter wheat?
The Fukuoka-Bonfils method
http://files.uniteddiversity.com/Permaculture/Bonfils_Winter_Wheat.pdf






Zoran Petrov


Joined: Jul 14, 2010
Posts: 27
Location: Norway/Serbia
Lawrence London wrote:
This seems to be a complete version of the original document translated into English

Winter wheat and its physiology according to the Fukuoka-Bonfils method.
http://files.uniteddiversity.com/Permaculture/Bonfils-Winter_Wheat_Physiology.pdf


How to grow winter wheat?
The Fukuoka-Bonfils method
http://files.uniteddiversity.com/Permaculture/Bonfils_Winter_Wheat.pdf



It is not - that is the reason why people have poor results.
Lawrence London


Joined: Jan 07, 2012
Posts: 34
Location: North Carolina
zemljak Hatfield wrote:
Lawrence London wrote:
This seems to be a complete version of the original document translated into English

Winter wheat and its physiology according to the Fukuoka-Bonfils method.
http://files.uniteddiversity.com/Permaculture/Bonfils-Winter_Wheat_Physiology.pdf


How to grow winter wheat?
The Fukuoka-Bonfils method
http://files.uniteddiversity.com/Permaculture/Bonfils_Winter_Wheat.pdf



It is not - that is the reason why people have poor results.


You mean that the method is faulty or that that is not the original document, i.e. someone else's and not good information to use?
Zoran Petrov


Joined: Jul 14, 2010
Posts: 27
Location: Norway/Serbia
It is not complete! Otherwise people would get some results - if we do not count disasters as results. There is a full text in French that is circulating around but it is very private and for personal use. And to answer Your future question I do not speak French!

Link and related document that I mentioned in one of the previous post is not that bad.
Lawrence London


Joined: Jan 07, 2012
Posts: 34
Location: North Carolina
zemljak Hatfield wrote:It is not complete! Otherwise people would get some results - if we do not count disasters as results. There is a full text in French that is circulating around but it is very private and for personal use. And to answer Your future question I do not speak French!

Link and related document that I mentioned in one of the previous post is not that bad.


Well, so far, it seems that much the best advice on Natural Farming is to be found here in this excellent new Fukuoka forum at Permies. I hope it will remain that way.

Here again are the links to the Bonfils documents, typewritten with many beautiful illustrations and diagrams, that I received from Jamie Nichol to archive in my website at ibiblio, EcoLandTech. They are all in French. Maybe someone would volunteer to translate several of the wheat growing-related documents. Here, for what it is worth, is the link:

Marc Bonfils' Agricultural Research
Index of /ecolandtech/souscayrous/MarcBonfils-AgriculturalResearch
http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech/souscayrous/MarcBonfils-AgriculturalResearch/

I wonder who has the wheat articles? Could they be obtained for use by everyone?

LL
Dan alan


Joined: Feb 16, 2012
Posts: 40
zemljak Hatfield wrote:

I am happy to announce that we had very successful harvest of Banatka. I will share some photos of the fields that were conventionally sowed with 200kg seeds of Banatka (wrong method as Banatka has about 20- 40 shoots from a single seed) with yield of cca1500 kg per 0.5 ha. Of course no fertilizers or herbicides.


Now we are going to sow 0.5 ha Banatka (it is truly the only pure European heritage wheat) I will also post in coming days lab results of content of Banatka.


I cleared .14 ha this summer and summer cover cropped it with millet and just this week finished planting white clover and kamut wheat. Do you think kamut can be used for Bonfils wheat growing method? I will have to really thin it out to compatible spacing.

I have a hand full of "ancient" wheats from kusa seed society that I will have to grow out before having enough seed. Any idea if these might work:

SPRING DINKEL WHEAT (Triticum spelta)
This is a spring growth-habit wheat with legendary bread-making properties. The artisan breads of the European renaissance came from grain like this. The spikelets are golden-tan. The spring growth-habit genetic trait is unusual and extremely rare.

WINTER DINKEL WHEAT (Triticum spelta)
This is the customary type of dinkel wheat with winter growth-habit. Travel back in time with this grain which earned its reputation and stripes many centuries ago as “the rice of Europe.” Think cobbled lanes, soaring cathedrals with buttressed arches, storybook rivers with floating barges; you get the picture.

EINKORN WHEAT (Triticum monococcum)
This is a spring growth-habit wheat whose spikelets contain one single seed (einkorn= German “one grain”). If you think herringbone weave is an attractive garment fabric, wait ‘till you see the architecture of this golden einkorn wheat. Each head is a herringbone-weave masterwork of symmetry with each spikelet pointing the way up, to heaven. As they say, “upwardly mobile.” Yes, this is a heavenly grain of the most ancient provenance (aka “Stone Age Wheat”). It is a very undemanding wheat, quite happy and fully content in soils which you’d swear have zero organic-matter content and nitrogen. If you have a dry, stony, arid wasteland, you might be surprised to find einkorn standing there very contentedly and without complaint, some future year — having slipped away from your garden to pursue its own heartfelt freedoms. This is a grain to come to know, both nutritionally and agronomically. Taxi to heaven.

GOLDEN EMMER WHEAT (Triticum dicoccum)
This is a spring growth-habit wheat with plump spikelets of golden grain; a very handsome article indeed. And grain pedigrees don’t come more ancient than this. This is a grain that gave birth to human civilization. The scholars have found and identified it again and again at some of the earliest sites of civilization. It was found in the earliest farming sites in Turkey, and fueled the minds and hearts which produced the wonders of Classical Greece. This wheat knows the tangy fog and sun of the Aegean Sea and is most eager to fully demonstrate its sunkissed and felicitous nature before your very eyes. It well knows that modern eyes need some re-convincing regarding the practical merit, value, and integrity of ancient things. This is a
wheat with a mission: a faculty member ready to teach lessons about beauty and nutritional excellence.

BLACK WINTER EMMER (Triticum dicoccum)
This is a winter growth-habit wheat with “knock your socks off” beauty. It will impress the most modern of cereal breeders with its totally erect leaf architecture. Its stems are stiff and lodging-resistant. Heavenly? It reached the amazing and very memorable height of 84 inches in grow-outs conducted by the Kusa Seed organization. It knows where it’s going and it will take you there, too. For this ancient wheat ancestor, you definitely want to bring a photographer onto your place. Its panicles have the exquisite lacy architectural appearance of wild grasses and when it begins to flower, the flower-parts are a light-show of brilliant gold trembling against pale russet florets. When the heads are finishing with their plump spikelets coloring-up to black, you will find early of a morning, beads of silver dew rolling like drops of molten solder down the obsidian walls of one of creation’s masterpieces.


<img src="http://aquaponics.vacau.com/pics/ChinampaPonics/humanure.gif">
Zoran Petrov


Joined: Jul 14, 2010
Posts: 27
Location: Norway/Serbia
I doubt that kamut will work - it is not old wheat. I would trust growseed.org (or tryKusa seed society) they have excellent seeds. You could try Banatka seeds although they are mixed with Bankut.

Best regards and good luck!
duane hennon
volunteer

Joined: Sep 23, 2010
Posts: 391
Location: western pennsylvania zone 5/a
    
  11


this thread may be of interest as it applies to growing wheat and other grains

http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/reply/0/21893?OWASP_CSRFTOKEN=8XYI-VWGT-WBR8-OS75-W8FP-EQ72-9WCY-WJFA#preview
Matt Smaus


Joined: Feb 05, 2014
Posts: 32
Location: Carnation, WA
    
    1
I know I'm late to the thread, but since it hasn't been said, I need to add that this method relies on having summer rainfall or irrigation. In the Northwest, or anywhere with dry summers, wheat can be grown without irrigation because you plant it in the rainy season and it matures by the time the ground is drying out. With the Bonfils method, you would plant right as we are entering our brief two month dry spell. That seems like a lot of work, and isn't really in rhythm with the spirit of the place. If I lived in a northern clime with wet summers, I would be very excited to try this.

In the Northwest, I've had good luck with the typical wheat/crimson clover combination, planted at the same time in early April or ideally mid to late September. You do have to prepare the ground and rake in the seed, but the clover helps control weeds, and surges in the fall after you've harvested the grain and the rains come. I wonder if we could do the same planting into a perennial clover cover. Like the Bonfils but we'd have to seed more heavily and let go of the multiple tillers.



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subject: Fukuoka-Bonfils winter wheat method for chicken feed
 
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