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women peeing outdoors

Rene Bagwell


Joined: Mar 28, 2012
Posts: 6
Location: SW Montana
I about choked on my iced tea when I read the orignal post. LOL

Living in the mountains of Montana, male or female, you better be able to use the bathroom outside! Yes, we obviously have bathrooms here but we're outside hiking, snowshoeing and snowmobiling so
much that its gonna happen that you're gonna need to go where no bathroom exists. Its usually easy for us ladies to find 2 rocks/boulders reasonably close to one another to sit between them without
squating and guys, well, you guys have it easy.

Interesting topic to say the lease.
Sunny Earles


Joined: May 07, 2012
Posts: 2
This is a funny topic! I grew up on an organic farm in the NW and there were outhouses and the males could of course pee outside. Now I have a permaculture style garden/yard and I urinate in a watering can from Lowe's that fits a woman's anatomy perfectly. I have several of them so I can add water and water the garden. I do think it would be weird to urinate outside because I would be so visible in my urban environment but since I prefer to save the urine to use in the garden it does not matter anyway! But I do envy the males that can just wing it off the deck. Thanks all! I will try to post a pic of my watering cans! Go girls! I am responding to this because when I spoke up about using urine in a recent permie class people were surprised about this.
Pamela Melcher


Joined: Jan 10, 2012
Posts: 290
Location: Portland, Oregon Maritime, temperate, zone 7-8.
OK, I am taking my cue from Paul.

This is some of the best fertilizer in the world we are talking about.

Naturopaths have told me that it is better for my health not to wear underpants at all, ever, because the air circulation is better for my skin and discourages unwanted bacteria. They are doctors. So I followed their advice and never regretted it, in fact, I have been much happier.

I find that applies somewhat to pants in general, so I almost always wear skirts.

I only wear underpants when on my moon.

So, when I wear a skirt - no problem. II can be standing, squatting, whatever I wish. I just hold it out so I do not pee on it and then air dry. I wait a few minutes before I sit down.

So simple.

If I am wearing a long skirt, I am home free anywhere. I think that public toilets are disgusting, so I have even peed in a park in the city and no one knew but me and the plants who loved the nitrogen.

It is very freeing. No tension about finding a disgusting public restroom.

At home I choose plants I want to fertilize that I will not be eating the leaves of. It is s joy to watch them green up.

I rotate the location so it does not smell too strong, or kill plants from too much nitrogen.

However, if you WANT to l kill a plant, simply apply urine to it until it dies. This works very well with poison oak. In that case, it is best to use a jar and pour it on without touching the plant.

Who originated the idea that we should have shame about the practical use of one of the best fertilizers in the word, and why did they do that?

Good questions.

Pamela Melcher

Pamela Melcher
Happiness, Health, Peace and Abundance for All.
www.myncd.com/472784
Chrissie Bettencourt


Joined: May 26, 2012
Posts: 7
I have to say I am firmly in camp B, I have been peeing outdoors since childhood and have no issues. I much prefer going out doors especially when the indoor bathroom situation is less than optimal. I am not a big fan of public bathrooms I can understand however how many would be annoyed with the sprinkling situation, and squatting if you have bad knees. I was not happy about it either, but over the years I have made some "adjustments" that have helped and made peeing in the outdoors much easier. The first is the whole squat position. You do not necessarily have to completely squat down. I have found that standing with legs wide apart and leaning your torso forward and thrusting your hips/buttocks back (with just a slight bend in the knees) works just as well. Knee problem solved. As for aim, I agree with one of the comments above that "pushing" more will help. But also, and I am not really sure there is any delicate way to say this so I won't bother, it helps if before you pee, you "spread apart" parts of your genitalia with your fingers. As females things tend to get sort of "bunched up" and hence aim issues arise. As for clean up afterwards, I just use mullein leaves. We have a lot of mullein that grows on the property and it makes for excellent natural toilet paper. We have a bidet in the house so it makes it easier to clean up after.
Pamela Melcher


Joined: Jan 10, 2012
Posts: 290
Location: Portland, Oregon Maritime, temperate, zone 7-8.
The portal through which we all enter this physical plane of existence is sacred.

I finally read all of this thread and it is very freeing.

Masanobu Fukuoka says "Shit is Buddha." I think we can generalize that to urine.

I heard Masanobu Fukuoka speak in person, and he has a very thick Japanese accent, and pronounces it "Sheeet eees Buddha." And he smiles a big smile. Very loveable.

Only a little tangential - I think this is very practical. How women can reduce their use of toilet paper to 1/3 of present levels. When I use toilet paper after I pee, I save it in a bag, and the next time I need to pee I use the other side of that bunch of toilet paper. Washing my hands takes care of sanitation. I collect it and when I need to poo, I use the twice used toilet paper. Washing my hands takes care of the need for sanitation.

Saving trees and reducing industrial pollution by doing that makes me very happy.

Visualizing an earth with pure air and water and radiating health through healthy, well nourished plants and animals, including the human species.
Many Blessings,
Pamela Melcher
Clover Love


Joined: Mar 17, 2012
Posts: 52
Location: Tacoma, WA [8B-7B]
I like Pamela's 1/3TP idea. Having cloth diapered and use cloth moon rags, I'd gladly go cloth with that 1/3 approach. I was basically doing that with my daughter for toilet potties and when I approached my DH with the idea that we all do it, he balked. I think I'll revisit the idea for DD and I.

My most recent thoughts on how: there's a handy spray nozzle that attaches to the toilet plumbing (DIY here) to help with clinging residue, an attractive 'diaper' bucket, and enough cloth wipes for the household (and willing guests) for 5 days, with laundry every 3rd day. A lovely basket for the clean ones, too.

I like the wipes my grt aunt made for DD, 2 layers of attractive thin flannel sewn together. I've used old wash cloths and it's not the same experience.


I live in Bizzaro World.
Michelle Green


Joined: Jul 31, 2012
Posts: 4
I take a beach umbrella with me when there isnt enough privacy, open it, lay it on its side & tuck in behind it to do the job.
Hmmm...Why not build a pee only outhouse with a drainage hose that goes into the compost pile? I'll add that to my list of projects
Jay Green


Joined: Feb 03, 2012
Posts: 587
    
    8
I just had to get in on the pee thread! LOL I'm in the B camp. Even when it's not necessary to pee outside, I'll take the opportunity to do so..particularly at night. For some reason it feels so primal and right, almost like a marking of the territory for me. Our rhubarb was so very lovely this year!!

Been doing it ever since I was a little girl and, when you are raised with an outhouse as your toilet, it is far more comfortable to squat and pee in the winter than it is to sit on that ice cold seat.

As for wiping...a brisk shake and a few seconds to air dry is mostly adequate. Carrying a bandana or family cloth with you on your choring in the woods and fields is also an option.
LaLena MaeRee


Joined: Jun 14, 2012
Posts: 148
Edit: I forgot to point out the recent forum moving is making things really hard to find, I had to wait for this thread to show up as an ad at the bottom because I searched in all the compost and humanure ones for it, bummer

I imagine Paul doesn't actually come read this forum, but I thought if he does he might like to know it was actually originally the first one I wanted to reply to on permies, but I wasn't a member yet and I was in a rush that day. I love this topic, as I grew up in a family who went camping and gold mining every single summer, so I have been "peein' in the wooods" since diaper age. I remember being really little and mom or dad would put their hands out under our knees so when we squatted we were kinda sitting on their arms so we didn't fall, until we were big and balanced enough to do it ourselves. I also remember being kids playing in the sprinkler in the summer and my sister and I both would just run to a rose bush, still standing, move our swimsuit bottom over and pee on the rose bush. We were always proud of our standing pee during sprinkler times, lol. Now, as a 28 year old adult, I live in a travel trailer that is not hooked up to septic. It never will be either, the toilet is going to be ripped out and replaced with a composting 5 gallon bucket set up, but anyways...for right now I kept a folgers can with the lid, but I don't seal the lid. It sits in the bath tub as we do not use our shower right now anyway. I can easily step in there, pee in the can which I just hold at an angle to make easier, otherwise you splash yourself. Drip dry. Every morning or sometimes more often if I have drank coffee lately and peed a lot, I take my folgers can with lid out and dump it either where we plan to have our next garden or in an existing one that won't be harvested anytime soon. I of course still make sure to do this when the male room mates are not home, as our trailer is in someone's yard(out of city limits). I'm lazier than most probably would be with actually washing it, but I do that once in awhile. Sometimes I just let it sit out on a rainy day, then go empty the rain and let it sit upside down in the sun til its dry. The longer you store pee, and higher amount, the more smell you will get, I can definitely tell you that. That is why I just let the lid sit loose now, and the bathroom roof vent is always cracked so odors can escape better.

My advice to anyone who is against going outside to pee is go learn about septic systems. My dad installed them for many years, so I know how much of an unhealthy, environmental nightmare they are. I also know that WOMEN cause the most pollution in them, stop flushing tampons and pads, they are NOT flushable no matter how many times the damn box lies that they are. Also, the treatment and maintenence of modern sewage systems proves how wrong these systems are. They require so much input and constant monitoring and WORK that they are the definition of unsustainable, you just don't know it because you aren't the one who has to go swim in shit and bloody tampons at work every day. When you throw something away there is no away, where do you think all your urine and poo go? Women, of all people, should be more aware of how often they send toxins off for someone else to deal with, when if they had done it right those toxins would have been mere fertilizer for their closed loop of proper health and wellbeing.

This was our first year growing food and we have tomatoes so good people are begging for more of them, they can thank our pee, as my boyfriend also walks to the garden to pee. And for clarification, NO, neither of us take pills of any kind, and haven't for a lot of years. We are also disease free, which I don't think the stores' tomatoes fertilizier can claim.


When you throw something away, there is no 'away'
Morana Revel


Joined: Jun 22, 2012
Posts: 36
Emerson White wrote:It is not sterile. Blood is sterile inside your veins (mostly), but anything that opens to the outside world (other than your urinary tract is unlikely to be sterile, that's why TSS happen, Staph. naturally living in the body feeds off the blood in the tampon and populations build to massive levels over the course of 12 hours and the toxins produced go in through the mucus membrane. Incidentally everyone is constantly shedding retroviruses, even in their blood. They are everywhere, its best to avoid sharing bodily fluids with too many people.


Technically, it IS sterile. But with urine and blood, as soon as it hits oxygen, it is instantly not....contaminated ...but more like activated. It is not the fact that it is sterile or not sterile. It is that blood and urine contain just about the perfect blend of stuff to make the growing of OTHER stuff perfect. Add to that that in a healthy body we naturally have things like yeast growing, all that is missing is Oxygen.

Trust me and my microbiology classes on that. It is what is contained in it, not what it is.

So as long as a body is healthy, I don't see the issue with the various peeing outdoors. Not even as a form of fertilization.

The BIG issue is that a lot of people are not healthy; heart medicine, diabetes medicine, cancer medicine. THOSE do not need to be included on our food. Those do not even need to be included on our compost piles. Compost piles can heat up and kill a certain amount of contaminants. It will not however, remove medications or anything that cannot be killed or adulterated by heat.


Morana Revel


Joined: Jun 22, 2012
Posts: 36
Pamela Melcher wrote:OK, I am taking my cue from Paul.

This is some of the best fertilizer in the world we are talking about.

YES! it is.

As to why grass turns yellow and dies from some urines.... too much potassium or something. It is the same as putting a large handful of commercial fertilizer down. It is not the what,but how much.

That being said, I have been peeing outdoors most of my life. When I was young, it was to step between rows of our garden and try not to make too much of a muddy spot that others would get "muddy".

In college, down on the amphitheater, it was being too lazy to walk back to the dorms. Since the guys in my group were, for the most part, gay, privacy was a given.

Then there was in college, while living in a sorority dorm and watching the drunk chicks come home to roost, that I got the finer lessons in peeing standing up. I was sitting with a friend in a car talking...no lights on or anything, when drunk chicks and drunk guy stand in front of my car and take bets on who can pee the farthest. The problem was there was one guy and a bunch of drunk chicks.... the guy thought he could win. Turns out he lost and my future husband and I got a great lesson from some drunk Appalachia chicks on the finer points of a "lady" peeing while standing. Now I have since practiced (in the bathtub firmly pointed toward the wall) and It does work, but I personally find it easier to simply squat. I have found that is was easier and a skinny little chick. As an older, less skinny version...not so much.

Now, I use it to enrich the compost pile and for direct watering. I have brought in a large amount of wood chips to use as a base for next years plantings. I have been watering the wood chips with urine so that in the spring, when I bring in soil, I will have a decent understory. I simply have a large collection jar I fill and carry out.

But that is also my personal urine. Not my husbands who is a diabetic on about 6 different medications. I supplement with vitamins and herbs. On the days I take pain pills, I use the normal facilities. Even the cats urine is getting its own special place. After sorting out the fecal matter, I use wheat hulls or corn cob shreds, it is dumped in an out of the way spot for future mulching of non-edibles after PH adjusting.



Anna Demb


Joined: Nov 17, 2011
Posts: 21
I like to pee near a large- and soft-leafed plant, preferably a goosefoot maple, for TP. A skirt is great for hiding the stream, but a wide shirt or jacket will also do well. When I am concerned about splashing, I squat but with my butt way up in the air. Also you have to squat with your legs wide apart.
Timothy Brogan


Joined: Jul 28, 2012
Posts: 39
Location: Oregon Coast
Check out the new podcast here that covers the Females Peeing Outdoors discussion: http://www.richsoil.com/permaculture/2009-211-females-peeing-outdoors/

And here is ther podcast thread: http://www.permies.com/t/18062/podcast/Podcast-Females-Peeing-Outdoors


America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between. - Oscar Wilde

http:\\webdoghosting.net - Hosting, Web Design, Scripting, and more...
Natasha Lovell


Joined: Aug 01, 2012
Posts: 8
Location: ~1 hr South of Seattle
Granted I'm young (22), strong and limber, but I've never had a splashing problem unless I aim at a bad spot on the ground. No wiping needed, but an occasional shake off helps. But, maybe it's also because I've had lots of practice...been doing it since I was very small, don't remember what age I started. I suspect my dad was more supportive of said activity than my mom when I was a kid, she gets a little testy if she knows I'm "going" outside. And we live on 6 wooded acres...plenty of cover. So yeah, I'm a group B'er, and comfortable doing so (well, in private at least).


Rubystar Nubian and Guernsey dairy goats...and now hair sheep...like I needed more animals...
http://rubystardairygoats.weebly.com/
Morana Revel


Joined: Jun 22, 2012
Posts: 36
Natasha Lovell wrote:So yeah, I'm a group B'er, and comfortable doing so (well, in private at least).


Is it just me, but what is the big deal? Please med, you have been peeing int he snow for years! Let us have our fun now!

I dont even really care about private that much. When I rode horses (age 12 to 20), you popped a squat where you could. There would be anywhere from 20 to 50 horses with all ages and a real mixed bad of people. Sometimes it would be a group of women in a grove of trees, sometimes it was several horses with long tails standing together blocking the ladies from the road.

Occasionally, there would be a male look out. I later found out (years later) that there was a pedophile that rode with us sometimes. An older male knew about him and would escort the younger ladies to the trees.

I have even been known to try and pee off the back of the horse.
Morana Revel


Joined: Jun 22, 2012
Posts: 36
Morana Revel wrote:Please med, quote]

Was supposed to be Please Men! sorry...lol
Xisca Nicolas
pollinator

Joined: Aug 06, 2012
Posts: 1069
Location: La Palma Canary Zone 11
    
  16
Haha, there is even a way we ladies can pee standing up like males!

The problem is that "real" males can do it publicly, and that is a bit of problem for women, like once someone looking strange at me when I was on my way back (was I really as female as I did look?)



About toilet paper, well, a hand and a little bottle or a glass of water just do fine.
It is traditionally the left hand, the right one being for eating...


Xisca - Canary - Look at pics! Dry subtropical Mediterranean - My project
However loud I tell it, this is never a truth, only my experience...
Jennifer Vo


Joined: Apr 04, 2012
Posts: 1
Ok, I just tried this .. Because I am curious. How hard is this?? Well not too hard. I just pretended I was a guy and directed my parts with my hands. I just clasp my hands around my vaginal opening, pushed my hips forward..which helped pull both labias apart and slightly up. I started urinating and got a stream going about 4 feet out in front of me. I was standing in front of the toilet. At first, I even over shot the toilet. But then I ajusted my hand and success! NO drips and No t.p. I kind of felt like a guy. I was thinking of that scene from Mrs. Doubfire, and hoped no one would walk in and get the WRONG idea. I have labored two children. So of course, I am a women. I thought gee thats why some can't hit the bowl. It takes aim. Poor little boys who live in the city. They can't practice their aim. Next time, I may stand over the toilet a little more and aim more down. When I am home in the snow guess what I am going to do? lol
BTW I am in Vietnam. I think it is very interesting how they potty train their children. I witnessed this while hanging clothes out. My neighbor had a 8 month old girl when I got here. The mother would feed her baby then about a half hour or so later would pull down her pants and cradle her between her legs in a squated position. Then, She would make a shhh shhh shhhh noise with her mouth and the baby would go everytime. She would stay there as long as it took. No more than 3 to 5 min. I think the open air and the noise led the child to have the urge more. The baby just started going on Q. Pooping there too. The dog was happy to clean that up. Hungry dog. That was kind of weird to see. The dogs knew the baby was going to poop and waited for it. Now she is 1yr old. I haven't seen her doing that for a couple months. So, I think she was trained at 10 months. I don't think she ever used diapers. They do have a lot of tile here. So, clean ups are easy. I thought wow, great method!
Xisca Nicolas
pollinator

Joined: Aug 06, 2012
Posts: 1069
Location: La Palma Canary Zone 11
    
  16
A brave woman shows how to pee standing and with the pants on!
Spontaneous video during a treck in mountain with cold wind.
Very useful for climbing, and in public toilets!



(well, it is in spanish... but the video is in international sign language haha!)
Pamela Melcher


Joined: Jan 10, 2012
Posts: 290
Location: Portland, Oregon Maritime, temperate, zone 7-8.
Film about elimination communication, a way to bring up children without diapers.

Elimination communication has many positive aspects to recommend it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j20B-c9-K3Q

Very ecological Very good psychologically

This film was made by a dear friend of mine who is very practical and very wise.
Meryt Helmer


Joined: Oct 02, 2012
Posts: 286
Location: west marin, bay area california. sandy loam, well drained, acidic soil and lots of shade
    
  13
i have done elimination communication with both my children although my youngest started walking very early (7 months) and was in to much of a hurry for me to catch her pees so we had to relax a lot about it. we worked more on the communication and now at 14 months she has the patience to stop running long enough to pee! I was delighted to hear the recent podcast about peeing in nature. I always have wanted to learn how but was also always very bad at it. I had told myself for years that if i ever had a daughter i would learn so that she would learn and grow up feeling comfortable and able to pee anyplace and a few weeks ago I started teaching myself to pee standing up! I have some female to male trans friends that have always peed standing up like a boy and can do it with pants up at a urinal so if they can do it I can certainly learn how as well. so far my biggest problem is figuring out how to aim at all down. when i pee standing up it goes straight out in front of me at least three feet. i have been practicing in the bathtub. anyone here know how to pee standing up and aim down? i'm sure i will figure it out soon. i don't practice often have just been doing it a few times.
Xisca Nicolas
pollinator

Joined: Aug 06, 2012
Posts: 1069
Location: La Palma Canary Zone 11
    
  16