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Paul is at lunch at the SKIP event and talks to Jae.  Mike and Opalyn are also around.

Jae has 40BBs - last year she came to SKIP as a complete beginner, now she's aiming to be the 3rd person to reach PEP1.
Jae says that many BBs are a stretch for her; also SKIP pushes her to do things she would otherwise avoid.  The SKIP event is good: people can help and advise.

Jae has read that the modern age has created a massive de-skilling: everyone uses stuff but they have no clue how it works.  SKIP can help with re-skilling.

Jae also says that SKIP is worthwhile for itself, without the prospect of eventually inherting land.  They agree that the whole inheriting land thing sounds like snake oil and that can put people off, but Paul feels driven to keep saying it.  He can't see any more he can do.

There are 1477 BBs.  So far, 6196 BBs have been approved but from only 335 people and Paul is frustrated that it isn't bigger.  Right now only Mike and Opalyn have achieved PEP1.  

Jae, Opalyn and Mike agree that SKIP is valuable as a way to learn new skills.  Jae feels that it could be presented more for that aspect, whether or not you get to PEP2 and maybe inherit property.  Some people go most of the way to PEP1 but get distracted.

Mike is working towards PEM in Wisconsin.  

They compare SKIP with going to college: they reckon PEP1 would take 6-8 weeks full time, and PEP2 about 6-8 times longer.  But SKIP is free, where college can leave you owing $100,000.

There are now 25 Otises, seeking someone worthy to inherit their properties.

Jae finishes with analogy with three brothers in fairytales: the first is only after gold, so he's not worthy.  The second is cunning and has clever shortcuts, so also not worthy.  The third brother does things right, cares about the land and so forth and isn't looking for shortcuts and mistrusts what looks like "snake oil".  She feels they need to find a way to attract the third brothers.

Relevant Threads

2024 SKIP: Skills to Inherit Property (PEP1) event - July 15th-26th
Skills to Inherit Property forum

The 22 aspects of PEP

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I'm looking for a link to the article referenced about unskilling. Has anyone been able to find this?
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Just wanted to say it broke my heart to hear Paul so disheartened in this podcast. I don't know if you'll ever see this but I'll write it anyway.

As someone who has knocked around permies for a while but never done much interacting, I didn't realise how much of a real tangible amazing thing the SKIP, PEP and BB ideas had become. It IS world changing, but 'the people' don't like change as you've noticed haha.... but that doesn't mean everyone. I've experienced the same in the education sector. The system is broken, but people are scared to try alternatives - until some brave families give it a go and others can see the success, and are more likely to try. Sometimes it's just a case of timing - alternative education approaches boomed during the pandemic.

What I'm saying is I think it's going to be a snowball effect. Right now you have a few snowflakes doing cool things, some BBs, some PEPs... but you've built something incredible and made it freely accessible and it WILL grow. Just give it time and publicise peoples success. The first person to meet their Otis will prove it's not snake oil and I imagine it will snowball from there. Or just be a slow burn as people discover this. But more and more people are reflecting on what they want their lives to look like and it's inevitable to me that something like this will get popular. People will reskill. Just have hope and patience. 😊 thank you for everything you've done and then community you've built.

I'll be starting my BBs ASAP and introducing this to allll my students!
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Location: Insko, Poland zone 7a
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As stated above by Neeki, I also felt sympathetic to Pauls struggle and frustrations with getting the word out to more people.

Im sure these things have been discussed among Paul and the current SKIPPERS off air at some point, or deep within these forums, but here are the thoughts that came up for me while listening:

I also have felt the "Snake Oil" bit when looking into the SKIP program. Sometimes when something sounds too good to be true...

From my opinion what would help this be less Snake Oil-y?  To have more well known people in the permaculture movement, and PDC teachers, talking about this program. If somebody like Geoff Lawton or David Holmgren started talking about this, then people who are not yet familiar with Paul and his work might be more inclined to look into it more, and maybe even participate! Or at least share with their family and friends who might benefit.  

Having somebody as a representative dedicated to spreading the word might also be helpful.  To strategically place themselves at certain events with a presentation on what this program is all about.  For example, there is an IPC (International Permaculture Conference/Convergence) taking place in Taiwan in late 2024. This is an island of over 20 million people. Permaculture is becoming better known there, and after this event there will be countless more eyes and ears exposed to this lifestyle.  

I just left Taiwan after living there for 2 years.  One of my own biggest struggles and frustrations there was finding land for long term use.  Land is ridiculously expensive there, and for the the average permaculture student, not at all accessible. Short term use, on the other hand, is very easy and practically free. Its a chemical ag monocrop culture for the most part. I saw this as an opportunity and thought that if i could show regenerative and permaculture practices in action, then maybe we would at least be able to find some longer term solutions for ourselves, where we could begin thinking about growing perennials, trees, and raising animals.  While there were a lot of people already exposed to permaculture who were very supportive of what we were doing, the land owners were really set in their ways, and didn't like our "messy" and "unprofessional" style. No matter how much we tried to describe polyculture and reasons for not using chemicals or synthetic fertilizers - it was just too extreme for what they were used to seeing.  So we were asked to not continue on the pieces of land we were stewarding. This happened enough times that we decided to make a move to a different part of the world.  A SKIP type system/program would have been a great answer for what we were dealing with.  It seems that there are A LOT of potential Otises there, if they only knew about SKIP...

After practicing a permaculture lifestyle for over a decade now, it wasn't until this recent move that I came across the permies forums, and got exposure to Pauls work.  Its  mind boggling to me that, despite being surrounded by people familiar with permaculture, nobody ever shared about permies with me.  This, to me, is evidence that there is an untapped opportunity.

Expanding out Internationally might be helpful?  

Personally, now that I am living in Poland, I can't imagine that there are any Otises who have connected with Mike or Paul from here, but there is so much more to this program, as brought up in the podcast.  The skill building aspect is what highly resonated with me.  After trying to practice a permaculture way of life for so long I now feel like i missed out on an awesome opportunity to learn. How much farther along would I be if my PDC teachers mentioned SKIP and recommended permies as a place to continue learning, and putting the lessons into practice?  

I have yet to get my first BB, but it will happen soon.  The thought of joining SKIP is actually pretty exciting, even if traveling all the way to Missoula to participate in person is not in the realm of possibility at the moment.  

Another thought that comes to mind:

To help SKIPPERS find income opportunities.  Sort of like graduating from college and getting a job.  Maybe this was already mentioned in the podcast..?  I recall something similar being talked about...

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