Well I've just spent some pleasant hours communicating with horses, and I have to say I'm really disappointed to come back here to people miscommunicating.
Come on, it's not a winner-take-all Cage Match. We're sharing ideas. Maybe if we listen and try to understand each other we can combine them creatively and come up with some new and powerful ideas. Maybe we'll see the world in a slightly different way. Or understand more how other people approach life.
If we can't pull that off here in this place, how the hell are we going to be able to advocate for positive changes out in the real world?
We're all people who genuinely want to make the world a better place, if we have different opinions it doesn't mean we are attackers or opponents.... lets not waste our energy with pointless argument, outside there is the Real Work to do.
to Paul...you said..
paul wheaton wrote:
Robert has stumbled over logic vs. idea. He has theories about alternatives to money. I am choosing to skip over Robert's stuff.
Limiting the scope of debate is such an easy way to suppress important ideas. It's ubiquitous in the mainstream media. It seems like a place like this would be ideal to discuss alternate ideas and search for positive ways forward. Since we've started a thread on whether or not we should monetize aspects of permaculture why wouldn't we look at all the ways we might approach this?
I would challenge you to spend a bit of time some evening exploring some of those ideas just to see what they are about rather than rejecting them out of hand. Specifically, I don't think he's advocating alternatives to money...I think he's proposing ways of making money work for us, for society, for the planet, instead of carrying on with the current disfunction in financial systems.
to Robert...yes i like the LETS idea a lot...there are a lot of interesting local currency systems out there and i think they are a great way to build community. They seem like a natural fit for permaculture economics. They also allow people to begin to decouple their lives from the world of central banks and wall street, and I think they are a super strategy for building up resilience and regaining some local economic autonomy.
They even allow you to play a bit with ideas like negative interest, buy putting a time limit on the currency or having it devalue the longer you hold it....this could help keep things flowing, and prevent the stagnation and hoarding we are seeing that can tip things into recession. They did just that with a number of local municipal currencies that were issued during the Great Depression, and it was very successful.