R Hasting

Similar design. Larger box. Aircrete, no ceramic panel.
What works well, really well, is the water portion of the design.
Very pleased with that.
If it is too far away, move closer.
😁

We are holding a learning, hands-on workshop on Nov 16 starting at 10:00 in North East Texas.
We will be building a huge batch box rocket mass water heater. The expectation is in excess of 250,000 BTU into the water.
The cost will be $45, lunch is provided.
Please come join us. It will be fun, informative, and a great time for all.

Here is the video with the details:




Link to signup for the workshop
https://app.barn2door.com/e/Q8pGQ/all/3JYBV

Event on the East Texas Aquaponics website
https://www.easttexasaquaponics.com/new-events/rocketmassheaterclass2019

Link to videos of the current Rocket Mass Water heater build
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLgT0Z9NIZwSnhAy9_byeeTI0FRtdRbuBh

We are holding a learning, hands-on workshop on Nov 16 starting at 10:00 in North East Texas.
We will be building a huge batch box rocket mass water heater. The expectation is in excess of 250,000 BTU into the water.
The cost will be $45, lunch is provided.

Here is the video with the details:




Link to signup for the workshop
https://app.barn2door.com/e/Q8pGQ/all/3JYBV

Event on the East Texas Aquaponics website
https://www.easttexasaquaponics.com/new-events/rocketmassheaterclass2019

Link to videos of the current Rocket Mass Water heater build
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLgT0Z9NIZwSnhAy9_byeeTI0FRtdRbuBh

Here is what I did.. I am measuring about 70-90k BTU/hr
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLgT0Z9NIZwSnhAy9_byeeTI0FRtdRbuBh
Maybe this can give you some ideas. I will post a "what I would do differently" soon.

Yesterday, I watched three hours of Bill teaching a PDC in 1995. He had a wicked sense of humor and really seemed to enjoy life. He was clearly an amazing man that created an insurrection that could not be stopped. There should be a special place in heaven for a man that can create a system that revolves around the golden rule like he did. Goodbye Bill, there are rumors that you have died. I know that they are lying.

John Wolfram wrote:

R Hasting wrote:True, but Curtis Stone has set it up so that his labor costs are less than half of his revenue. But this that wage is a profit to the worker, so in a sense, there is profit in it, but not all to the proprietor. What is important here is that 1/3 of an acre supports more than two people.

We might be muddling definitions here. I would define "net profit" as gross sales minus employee labor costs minus other expenses (taxes, farm equipment, rent, etc.) minus a "reasonable wage" for the owner of the business.

As a business, I concur. But this does indicate that $100K revenue on an acre would be a slam dunk on the right systems. I suspect that in a good market, $200-$300K per acre might be possible if the right systems were in place.

Which is what the original objections were. As for whether something is defined as permaculture, if you define permaculture in terms of being totally self sustainable with NO outside inputs, I dare to say that there will be few if any systems that can survive without electric, fuel, cooking oil, DE, NaCl, minerals, and all the other things that we all use from off the farm. If someone is able to grow their compost on one acre, and grow their garden vegetables on the other acre, is that not permaculture because the acre needs inputs?

I think that Purists are purists because they have never tried (or had) to do it.

Steve Rivas wrote:It is quite possible to net more than $100K per acre by raising "difficult" high value plant and animal species for niche markets. There are people doing this. In most cases they keep a low profile and don't offer seminars, workshops, how-to manuals, or books. They make their money by actually raising and selling a product. They don't have local customers. The last thing they want is for someone to go into business against them (competition). It isn't permaculture because feed and other materials must be sourced from off the farm. There are a lot of "wild" animal and plant species just waiting for somebody to figure out their life cycle and turn them into a profitable farmed product.

There is some truth to this, but How hard is it to grow lettuce and chives? Or are you implying that you can not grow annuals in permaculture. Curtis has those seminars, and videos. He has a weekly podcast with Diego Footer.
So there is at least one counter example to your statement of "Fact".

Which means it is time to reconsider what the truth is.
"The smaller the area, the greater the limitations, the greater the intensity of the system" - Geoff Lawton

John Wolfram wrote:Listening through the Urban Farmer series by Diego Footer of Permaculture Voices, it seems that they are grossing well above $100k an acre. Of course, they have two people working on roughly 1/3 of an acre, so the net profit after labor costs would a lot less.
http://www.permaculturevoices.com/its-winter-know-the-farm-numbers-the-urban-farmer-week-1/

True, but Curtis Stone has set it up so that his labor costs are less than half of his revenue. But this that wage is a profit to the worker, so in a sense, there is profit in it, but not all to the proprietor.
What is important here is that 1/3 of an acre supports more than two people.

Nicholas Covey wrote:According to my old-fashioned math... In order to glean $100,000.00 from 1 acre, you would have to make $2.30 per square foot, multiplied 43,560 times. That is mighty dense profitability for anything short of a mine.

Yep. You can sell, for example, a lettuce for $2.50. It takes .5 sf to grow that lettuce. You can grow out a lettuce in under 60 days, and where you have a 6 month growing season, you can grow at least 6 lettuces per SF in one season.
So that means that this SF gives you $15. that acres is 1/2 walking path, then you can glean $7.50 revenue per SF. which makes this math perfectly acceptable.
But that would be a very intense cultivation...