Russ Rob

Can radiant energy pass THROUGH a spark gap and on through series circuit , if it's in a small vacuum chamber? There is way less dissipation into ambient air, and the energy may be useful downstream. In 2005-2008,  A sealed extreme high efficient vacuum dual coils relay , as originally for a electrical 60 cycles signals  pole box, was used with engine experiments, to generate more efficient hydrogen gas from water. The engines would run with spark plug electrolysis, but only with the special relays applied to pass both high voltage and 7amps current! (not used for a relay purpose, but for contacts, diodes and inductors)  I recently built one with Carlon sealable 4" box, vacuum gauge, valve, and Tesla spark gap with magnets, diodes, cap and hand vacuum pumper tool. Not tested yet.
See one of Nathren's / S1R  engines running,- S1R9A9M9 You tube videos 1+2.  It was started with battery. Battery disconnected. Engine ran on the 12 magnet alternator , - self running sustained with 10amp draw. The 4 technicians called them "The Magic Relays".

####Nathren used his triple wire hand wound electromagnet to pass 12DC and SUPERIMPOSED 100v pulse to follow same output to spark plug. He said about 2008, that lawnmower engines would fire spark plugs and actually RUN at electrolysis for forming hydrogen fuel and fire same , for running engines. 6-7-10 amps plus 100 volts was required. His set up did not show any other parts capable of 100v. So,,,,,,, with a bare copper wire at high ignition  voltage with inductance leakage transfer voltage of superimposed 100v across to the 12v line of insulated #16 gauge wire, the amps are AIDED by the 100v transfer? I actually measured this with neon bulbs meter.Several other guys got 100v shocked while holding the 2 insulated wires! The spark plug electrodes are tiny in engine, -  for cell generating hydrogen, but he said that 100 volts was required. He MAY HAVE added an inductor coil to get get flyback volts, but requires extreme short pulse, such as fast switch. The only other option is the "Tab" terminal engine shut off ,underneath coil, on opposite side of the Magnetron ignition. The primary negative minus 130 volts is what runs the secondary of Magnetron. I found out from bench tests, that adding a resistor to terminal, it can be used as source voltage , without shutting off engine. The duty cycle is only 34% on the flywheel. See his engine running at You tube video 1 +2 S1R9A9M9.  Ignition high voltage is a type of AC. See image of s1r coils assembly (electromagnet).

His 1978  V8 car conversion for water to hydrogen, had 110v inverter with series l coil, diode. l coil. diode to plug.  RADIANT ENERGY pulse from the abrupt turn on of diode after high volts pressed EXACTLY on cathode in between coils, diode off, and released back to spark plug, when diode back on. !!!

Another update regarding the S1R9A9M9 system. I rechecked the bench set up for the "capacitor 70" add on circuit . I got it working to fire spark plug at about 10kv in air. The secondary side was also through 2 FR607 series diodes and  through the anode side, and through a China inductor 2.1millihemry. The Diodes represents 1/2 of a bridge rectifier from a dc power supply. The inductor is used as another required  means for slowing the spark time. The value of PF caps in series increases the spark strength. First ADJUSTABLE spark gap tester fires from initial ignition coil. At same time also charges up the PF caps in series with primary 8 turns 20kv white China cable.on ferrite closed loop core. The other end wire goes to ground. Alltronics UU ferrite core set with measure and cut 1/16" peel and stick rubber to protect windings from the high volts touching metal core. The 2 halves are held together with 2 spring type hose clamps 11mmm center. The secondary was 30 turns  #16 gauge solid hook up wire as it has to carry 6-7-10 amps. (Zero ohms small engine spark plug) As secondary fires, it is supposed to go through the PS 1/2 of bridge rectifier and on it's way through the S1R9A9M9 electromagnet coil, and the L coil and to engine spark plug. The methodology of this circuit is to allow for partial ISOLATION and eliminate the power/energy wasting series protection diodes bank that would be inbetween PS and ignition voltage.A higher PS output voltage needs higher current draw from battery. A lower battery draw is the resultant if using the Capitor70 circuit according to him. You need the internet calculator for L C resonance frequency near 649KHZ .Primary coil as 100 microhenries.  A hand meter for capacitance and inductance is needed. In air, spark gap is 3KV per mm. A Briggs engine has listed as compression increase of 2-5 times higher voltage spark. The low cost China oscilloscope and probe divide by 10,000 allows for measuring the high voltage. DSO 138 and plug in PS ,and Hantek divider probe HT-25. Other items needed as jumper wires, dual set screw wire connectors, fuses / holder, and determination. I am hoping to integrate this new circuit into the original planned S1R9A9M9 final circuit on Briggs engine. (Questions??)

Horvath Patents Allowed Engine To Run On Water Improved Electrolysis Efficiency

I studied the Horvath Patents for a long time,way back, and understand the circuits. A duplication does not need a new cast carburetor and machined spoked electrodes as in Patent. The Electrical circuit is just a beefed up capacitor discharge ignition for MAIN POWER, with improved efficiency electrolysis for hydrogen and oxygen at 40 amps, 450 watts battery draw. The spark plugs are changed to zero ohms racing type or just get Champion brand with same reach threads and remove resistor from top, and replace with bit of #12 copper wire segment. The gases flow from water safety can to a "spud in jet" as fitting on side of old 1 barrel carburetor at the venturi point. This beveled copper tube + farrow seal cap was also used on small engines on propane conversion without the expensive type kit purchase. Read Patent 3980053, then I can answer you about how it works. A 1994 Chevy Geo Metro 3 cylinder engine with fuel system injector replaced with a used, single barrel Carter carburetor would suffice. You make an aluminum plate adapter. It has a distributor that can be adjusted for timing. The Patent transformer core size was given, so as I had enlarged photo on copy machine to get size of other parts.Substitutes can be used when ordering parts as long as the necessary design systems are included. The on time of current pulses was 42 microseconds out of 100.. 1 / F = Period of frequency.10khz = 100 microseconds time. The duty cycle of oscillator was .006. (.6usec/100usec) 22 amps cap discharge = 300V DC X square root of 1microfarad / 185 microhenries coil of TR2 primary.. Frequency of pulses to SCR was 10,000 cycles. Tr1 FERRITE type transformer charges up the capacitor to 300v AC. Diodes added for full wave DC..Main capacitor HAS TO BE ONLY polypropylene 1MFD AT 1000 VOLTS DC type as LOW esr. The 22 was amps into primary of TR2. The secondary side was 10:1 ratio. The fast switch SCR is only the high frequency type like a GE model 35 amp. The reverse pulse on the primary side circuit of TR2 shuts off SCR inbetween pulses automatically. The 200A cell pulses creates more Hydrogen with the aid of magnetic field.The TR2 secondary uses NO DIODE RECTIFIER as the pulses ARE called "critical positive wave" with core as laminations, for the high frequency , instead of ferrite. This causes degraded pulse wave as positive DC. Get laminations from take apart microwave old transformer. You would build NARROW rectangle box of high temperature Gray pvc plates. . Two SS magnetic type plates and metal strips to add to each for spokes. The large Alnico or small multiple STRONG Neodymium magnets get taped to outside of box. N + S on opposite sides box. The cover gets holes for various brass fittings. Cut out rectangle rubber seal and drilled + tapped holes for cover screws.Magnetic Field is between the electrode strip gaps under water. The Oxygen and Hydrogen gaseous bubbles rise up and transfer to special brass wool type fast one way valve before entering the safety water can. Water cell should use baking soda with distilled water, so as no cleaning of container minerals build up. The Metro engine compartment is LARGE and has plenty room to work. Engine could also be put on engine stand, but you would need the Bell housing because the starter motor mounts there.. The car called Geo Metro XFI model with 3cyl did get the highest gas mileage of any car- 52MPG. In Canada it was called the Firefly. Don't forget to buy test meters such as LCR tester. The Analog type face + needle multimeters will measure volts at high frequency, not digital. Float valve attached to cover and small DC water pump, white plastic plug in breadboard for oscillator, ect, you get the idea. I have the sheet of proof reading corrections from poor Patent examiner mistakes.
Last edited by russwr; 09-13-2023, 05:34 PM.
I studied US Patent 3980053 vigorously years ago. I typed 2 pages of proof reading errors made by the Patent Examiners. Doing a recent review of my findings, the ratio of windings is lastly, still a problem. The main circuit is just a beefed up capacitor discharge ignition at 600watts, and used for electrolysis, instead of low wattage unit for running a common ignition coil.
There is an "inherent" built in lowered efficiency set up ,designed in by Horvath, on purpose. The schematic electrical hook up in the Patent is to be able to use heavy amps as a final , without using a heat/energy wasting rectifier at 200 pulse amps at 600 watts. This brilliant small section of circuit solves the energy waste problem, but the step down windings ratio was incorrectly stated in Patent. With 300 volts injected by the cap into primary inductance, there seems to be a 270v loss to get to 30volts , and then a 10: 1 ratio, for final 3 volts DC. I then assumed there was a mistake as it should be 100: 1 ratio. But then again, that CANNOT BE RIGHT SINCE THERE IS AN INHERENT EFFICIENCY LOSS BUILT IN. The beginning power supply Inverter is high frequency 10,000 cycles. The 1st transformer for the Inverter is FERRITE CORE, which is normally designed for that frequency. The second following transformer using the discharge cap and ratio has low grade, low frequency iron laminations core. This speciality is for the designed in output pulse called critical positive voltage damped wave form, as a degraded final signal. (No heat loss from a 200 amp diode.) The core produces heat which is used to heat the water.
The question being presented here is, is it true then, because of the larger winding core loss of low frequency laminations on high frequency, that the REAL final winding ratio would be changed to approx 70 : 1 to be able to still get the required 3 volts as final?? I understand that Patents don't reveal exacting details, and the typed Patent should say 100:1,- they said 10:1 and are both wrong.
Instructions for the small CDI units for car or small engine ignition say that the high frequency unit is hooked to the regular auto ignition coil. Ignition coils are all called autotransformers with 3 terminals. The interior CORES ARE ALL low frequency iron laminations. Maybe I am reading too much into this, as it is common for cdi to use the iron lamination cores. What we didn't know was, the output pulse is POSITIVE DC VOLTAGE.

In The Patent, Capacitor discharges 22 amps pulse at 300v DC into primary coil 185microhenries. The ratio primary to secondary side changes current to 200amps pulse at 10,000 times a second.This then creates sufficient hydrogen fuel along with the other increases in efficiency for water cell. The engines then, run on water from tank. That particular ratio was 1 to 10 for higher amps. to cell. The amount of current injected relates to quantity of fuel gases evolved. What about the voltage reduction ratio??? 300 to 3 is not 10 to 1 ratio. Is there really a 270v loss in the transfer?? Something is going on here! If 300v changes to 3 volts at 100 to 1 ratio, then 22amps would chance to 2200amps. (The 200 amps sounds more reasonable.)

(Or just maybe, the LAST actual proof reading error in the US Patent, was the ORIGINALLY WRONG FINAL VOLTAGE, AS It should be 30 volts PULSE DC!) 10 to one Ratio for both voltage 300v down to 30v and current up from 22A to 200A. (The 200 amps sounds more reasonable.) Your comments needed!

Page of 1
Filter

   russwr
   russwr
   Senior Member
       Join Date: Jan 2017
       Posts: 151

   Share
   Tweet

#1
Horvath Patents Allowed Engine To Run On Water Improved Electrolysis Efficiency
09-13-2023, 05:03 PM
I studied the Horvath Patents for a long time,way back, and understand the circuits. A duplication does not need a new cast carburetor and machined spoked electrodes as in Patent. The Electrical circuit is just a beefed up capacitor discharge ignition for MAIN POWER, with improved efficiency electrolysis for hydrogen and oxygen at 40 amps, 450 watts battery draw. The spark plugs are changed to zero ohms racing type or just get Champion brand with same reach threads and remove resistor from top, and replace with bit of #12 copper wire segment. The gases flow from water safety can to a "spud in jet" as fitting on side of old 1 barrel carburetor at the venturi point. This beveled copper tube + farrow seal cap was also used on small engines on propane conversion without the expensive type kit purchase. Read Patent 3980053, then I can answer you about how it works. A 1994 Chevy Geo Metro 3 cylinder engine with fuel system injector replaced with a used, single barrel Carter carburetor would suffice. You make an aluminum plate adapter. It has a distributor that can be adjusted for timing. The Patent transformer core size was given, so as I had enlarged photo on copy machine to get size of other parts.Substitutes can be used when ordering parts as long as the necessary design systems are included. The on time of current pulses was 42 microseconds out of 100.. 1 / F = Period of frequency.10khz = 100 microseconds time. The duty cycle of oscillator was .006. (.6usec/100usec) 22 amps cap discharge = 300V DC X square root of 1microfarad / 185 microhenries coil of TR2 primary.. Frequency of pulses to SCR was 10,000 cycles. Tr1 FERRITE type transformer charges up the capacitor to 300v AC. Diodes added for full wave DC..Main capacitor HAS TO BE ONLY polypropylene 1MFD AT 1000 VOLTS DC type as LOW esr. The 22 was amps into primary of TR2. The secondary side was 10:1 ratio. The fast switch SCR is only the high frequency type like a GE model 35 amp. The reverse pulse on the primary side circuit of TR2 shuts off SCR inbetween pulses automatically. The 200A cell pulses creates more Hydrogen with the aid of magnetic field.The TR2 secondary uses NO DIODE RECTIFIER as the pulses ARE called "critical positive wave" with core as laminations, for the high frequency , instead of ferrite. This causes degraded pulse wave as positive DC. Get laminations from take apart microwave old transformer. You would build NARROW rectangle box of high temperature Gray pvc plates. . Two SS magnetic type plates and metal strips to add to each for spokes. The large Alnico or small multiple STRONG Neodymium magnets get taped to outside of box. N + S on opposite sides box. The cover gets holes for various brass fittings. Cut out rectangle rubber seal and drilled + tapped holes for cover screws.Magnetic Field is between the electrode strip gaps under water. The Oxygen and Hydrogen gaseous bubbles rise up and transfer to special brass wool type fast one way valve before entering the safety water can. Water cell should use baking soda with distilled water, so as no cleaning of container minerals build up. The Metro engine compartment is LARGE and has plenty room to work. Engine could also be put on engine stand, but you would need the Bell housing because the starter motor mounts there.. The car called Geo Metro XFI model with 3cyl did get the highest gas mileage of any car- 52MPG. In Canada it was called the Firefly. Don't forget to buy test meters such as LCR tester. The Analog type face + needle multimeters will measure volts at high frequency, not digital. Float valve attached to cover and small DC water pump, white plastic plug in breadboard for oscillator, ect, you get the idea. I have the sheet of proof reading corrections from poor Patent examiner mistakes.
Last edited by russwr; 09-13-2023, 05:34 PM.
I studied US Patent 3980053 vigorously years ago. I typed 2 pages of proof reading errors made by the Patent Examiners. Doing a recent review of my findings, the ratio of windings is lastly, still a problem. The main circuit is just a beefed up capacitor discharge ignition at 600watts, and used for electrolysis, instead of low wattage unit for running a common ignition coil.
There is an "inherent" built in lowered efficiency set up ,designed in by Horvath, on purpose. The schematic electrical hook up in the Patent is to be able to use heavy amps as a final , without using a heat/energy wasting rectifier at 200 pulse amps at 600 watts. This brilliant small section of circuit solves the energy waste problem, but the step down windings ratio was incorrectly stated in Patent. With 300 volts injected by the cap into primary inductance, there seems to be a 270v loss to get to 30volts , and then a 10: 1 ratio, for final 3 volts DC. I then assumed there was a mistake as it should be 100: 1 ratio. But then again, that CANNOT BE RIGHT SINCE THERE IS AN INHERENT EFFICIENCY LOSS BUILT IN. The beginning power supply Inverter is high frequency 10,000 cycles. The 1st transformer for the Inverter is FERRITE CORE, which is normally designed for that frequency. The second following transformer using the discharge cap and ratio has low grade, low frequency iron laminations core. This speciality is for the designed in output pulse called critical positive voltage damped wave form, as a degraded final signal. (No heat loss from a 200 amp diode.) The core produces heat which is used to heat the water.
The question being presented here is, is it true then, because of the larger winding core loss of low frequency laminations on high frequency, that the REAL final winding ratio would be changed to approx 70 : 1 to be able to still get the required 3 volts as final?? I understand that Patents don't reveal exacting details, and the typed Patent should say 100:1,- they said 10:1 and are both wrong.
Instructions for the small CDI units for car or small engine ignition say that the high frequency unit is hooked to the regular auto ignition coil. Ignition coils are all called autotransformers with 3 terminals. The interior CORES ARE ALL low frequency iron laminations. Maybe I am reading too much into this, as it is common for cdi to use the iron lamination cores. What we didn't know was, the output pulse is POSITIVE DC VOLTAGE.

In The Patent, Capacitor discharges 22 amps pulse at 300v DC into primary coil 185microhenries. The ratio primary to secondary side changes current to 200amps pulse at 10,000 times a second.This then creates sufficient hydrogen fuel along with the other increases in efficiency for water cell. The engines then, run on water from tank. That particular ratio was 1 to 10 for higher amps. to cell. The amount of current injected relates to quantity of fuel gases evolved. What about the voltage reduction ratio??? 300 to 3 is not 10 to 1 ratio. Is there really a 270v loss in the transfer?? Something is going on here! If 300v changes to 3 volts at 100 to 1 ratio, then 22amps would chance to 2200amps. (The 200 amps sounds more reasonable.)

(Or just maybe, the LAST actual proof reading error in the US Patent, was the ORIGINALLY WRONG FINAL VOLTAGE, AS It should be 30 volts PULSE DC!) 10 to one Ratio for both voltage 300v down to 30v and current up from 22A to 200A. (The 200 amps sounds more reasonable.) Your comments needed!

I studied US Patent 3980053 vigorously years ago. I typed 2 pages of proof reading errors made by the Patent Examiners. Doing a recent review of my findings, the ratio of windings is lastly, still a problem. The main circuit is just a beefed up capacitor discharge ignition at 600watts, and used for electrolysis, instead of low wattage unit for running a common ignition coil.
There is an "inherent" built in lowered efficiency set up ,designed in by Horvath, on purpose. The schematic electrical hook up in the Patent is to be able to use heavy amps as a final , without using a heat/energy wasting rectifier at 200 pulse amps at 600 watts. This brilliant small section of circuit solves the energy waste problem, but the step down windings ratio was incorrectly stated in Patent. With 300 volts injected by the cap into primary inductance, there seems to be a 270v loss to get to 30volts , and then a 10: 1 ratio, for final 3 volts DC. I then assumed there was a mistake as it should be 100: 1 ratio. But then again, that CANNOT BE RIGHT SINCE THERE IS AN INHERENT EFFICIENCY LOSS BUILT IN. The beginning power supply Inverter is high frequency 10,000 cycles. The 1st transformer for the Inverter is FERRITE CORE, which is normally designed for that frequency. The second following transformer using the discharge cap and ratio has low grade, low frequency iron laminations core. This speciality is for the designed in output pulse called critical positive voltage damped wave form, as a degraded final signal. (No heat loss from a 200 amp diode.) The core produces heat which is used to heat the water.

The question being presented here is, is it true then, because of the larger winding core loss of low frequency laminations on high frequency, that the REAL final winding ratio would be changed to approx 70 : 1 to be able to still get the required 3 volts as final?? I understand that Patents don't reveal exacting details, and the typed Patent should say 100:1,- they said 10:1 and are both wrong.

Instructions for the small CDI units for car or small engine ignition say that the high frequency unit is hooked to the regular auto ignition coil. Ignition coils are all called autotransformers with 3 terminals. The interior CORES ARE ALL low frequency iron laminations. Maybe I am reading too much into this, as it is common for cdi to use the iron lamination cores. What we didn't know was, the output pulse is POSITIVE DC VOLTAGE.

This update in reference to the 2005-2019 Georgia engine conversions to water, is to clarify further information not generally known. The 2008 Internet photos of the S1R9A9M9 triple wires assembly was a hand winding to show roughly what the original one looked  like, but not with exacting details. The 3 technicians and Nathren did not want all tech information released to the public. They were not going to show everything. For example, the many AUTO conversions done, had the schematic electrical connections modified so as for us to see about 35v half wave DC from the Inverter box, rather than the original full wave DC to get the 100 volts.
On the lawn mower conversion of 2008,  the ORIGINAL  (2) hand windings  used in summer 2008 You tube videos, , were actually step up and step down autotransformers. What that means is, there has to be a steel core nail, or long steel screw under primary and secondary windings of BOTH. These and other small parts were inside the opaque painted plastic tub on side of Briggs mower engine. You can see Internet picture of the 2008 "ALLOWED" S1R9A9M9  coils assembly, and see 7 turns wire over the 5 turns #12 wire and along with the other 13 turns.. There is no core under 5 and 7 wires.. That would  show an electromagnet only from the 13 turns. To operate the engine like in 2008 You tube videos, it would require ignition high voltage, 10 amps DC , about 100 v DC, magnet field over plug wire, late timing 34 degrees,  and zero ohms spark plug. The same amps creates the field and timing delay, and goes through the spark plug. The dual alternators on Briggs engine only turns on at idle speed RPM. Therefore a separate means is necessary to get a "pulsing" on + off method to make the 3 terminal autotransformers work, without those alternators being on to begin with. The CAR BATTERY as shown, has to run the vibrators first , and when the alternators get up to speed, then BATTERY IS COMPLETLY REMOVED. Each AC alternator can produce only 4 Amps DC  with one diode on each side at a goodly high RPM. The ratio of turns as up or down can still be done with 2-3 amps designed in. The 2 shop people and Nathren's son, were knowledgeable technicians, and did ALL OF THE ELECTRICAL WORK, not the Father Nathren S1R9A9M9 as a non technical person. The other thing was, that it was never explained why the Inverter to 110v AC box was not used on the mower engine, as Briggs 18HP was a 4 cycle engine, just like all the other car engines converted. 4cyl Pinto, 4cyl tractor, 6 cyl car  and (3) V8 car engines.

It is commonly known that a half wave DC pulse 50% duty cycle will run a hand wound step up and step down 3 terminal autotransformer. A small relay with double sets of contacts as used with capacitor can form a temporary vibrator buzzer, which has DC input. The opposite set of contacts can open + close so as can run primary of transformer using the battery power first, then the alternator takes over when battery is disconnected. (2 vibrators and 2 autotransformers) The Briggs dual AC alternators on same ring are used with diode on each side. Some people are not knowledgeable about Briggs engineering adjustments for alternator stators. The 2 systems as described above in the web forum work, and mentioned as LOW POWER but useable, as extra energy to the hydrogen, is in the evolved water vapor pressure in combustion chamber.

As another example, The carbon DC current arc in under water cell will generate hydrogen fuel, oxygen, carbon monoxide fuel and is AIDED to be overunity, by the inherent use of Deuterium. Most people don't know that every 1 of 5000 molecules of water is HEAVY WATER , that acts as a catalyst to improve the efficiency of reaction. These electrical power generators are then self running, but owners need to purchase expensive carbon rods.

It's the same thing as the earlier overseas engine overunity conversion of 3 cylinder truck to electrolysis of water cell by aluminum decomposition. The electrical valence of plus 3 is very reactive. The alternator recharges the 40amps 24volts used. The US Patent recommends pure type aluminum wire feeding from roll as to under water sparking against carbon roller, similar to the common welding practice roll wire. Purified aluminum is expensive. There is also Deuterium present in the reaction.