Annie Collins

LOL, you can just disregard my last post; I see you found the thread! I got the name mixed up as far as first name and last name, but no matter, you found him. :-)

Hi Drew,
there was a thread on here started by someone with the first name Michael (I forgot the last name). He was looking to sell a part of their large acreage in Eastern TN I think it was. What he was looking for sounded very similar to what you are looking for (like-minded people to possibly sometimes share projects with, etc., but you'd have your own life there on your own property). You will likely find it if you do a search. If not, let me know, and I may be able to do a deep-dive and find it.

Cristobal Cristo wrote:Annie,

It depends on the tree. I did it for peaches and some plums that had quite developed tops and were at least 5/8" thick. I did not do it for apples and pears, that were just 1/2" caliper sticks. If the trunk is thin and delicate I would not touch it, because it could quickly dry at my location. Trees that are thinner than 3/8" I protect with vine shelters (waxed paper secured with a stake).

Once again, my gratitude to you Cristobal. What you said makes a lot of sense. So I will see what the trees look like when I get them, and take it from there.
I am so excited about the whole fruit tree project. This is the first time in my life that I have enough land to set up a little orchard (among other plantings) and where I get the sense I will stay for a very long time, possibly the rest of my life. So I really want to do my best to get it right, hopefully the first time. Your experience is priceless and I appreciate you taking the time to share it!

Cristobal Cristo wrote:I also plant bare root trees. I buy the rolls in 36" width, so for trees I make 12" diameter x 18" height cages, and for grapes (or small bushes, like ornamental but fruiting quince):  8x12". First I cut the netting into rectangles, then make cylinders and then attach the bottoms. If the roots are not fitting into the cage, I trim them a little. One could make bigger cages, but then more material will be used. I dig a hole 20" diameter, place the cage so only 2" of the cage is above the ground, put soil into the cage to match the root depth of the tree and fill all with dirt, compact well, then add some manure on top and woodchips all around.
At the beginning of my orchard adventure I was not using any cages, but the loss was massive - all almonds, all figs. Then I was using 1" chicken wire, but it did not help at all. In total I lost around 25-30 trees to gophers. Once I switched to 1/2" wire, I did not lose any single tree because of root damage..

Thank you, Cristobal,  for the detail and helping me to have a clear picture of the process!
One more quick question since you also plant bare root: I heard that it is a good idea to prune quite a bit of the canopy when first planting a bare root tree due to the roots having been lessened a lot when the tree got ripped out of the ground for selling. The theory is that lessening the canopy by pruning allows for the tree to concentrate its energy on healing the root system and grow it again more fully, and to all around get the canopy and root system in better balance again. It made sense to me. Do you do that?

Cristobal Cristo wrote:Researching for the right rootstock and cultivars, finding the vendors that sell them, then spending money, caring for the tree for half a year, irrigating, weeding and then finding in September that the trunk was cut in half by the invisible rodent is quite depressing.

I can well imagine!

Having been doing farmers markets for many years already, through wind, snow, rain, and sun, I have found that the water proof factor of any canopy is a bit limited, but not terrible. So don't expect 100% no-drip with even the best ones. As far as best ones, I have found that Eurmax is definitely one of the better canopies out there (that also sells replacement covers separately which is rare), as well as ABCCanopy. So far, those have been the only two companies that I (and other vendors) have found to be solid canopies. One can definitely find less expensive ones, but in the world of canopies, the saying that you get what you pay for quite aptly applies. :-)

Douglas Alpenstock wrote:Also signs by each type of plant with the Latin name, which people find suitably intimidating.

LOL - that is brilliant!

Becky Proske wrote:

What might be some intelligent ways to address something like this before the workers come to undo all of your work?

I agree where communication and education was mentioned, it is certainly important. I also think aesthetics is important too. This might be something that is easy to overlook in permaculture thinking, and beauty would be especially important to urban areas. Perhaps maintaining a more manicured look in the more visible areas would be helpful. Choose to plant common garden flowers and showy foliage at the perimeters. Add elements of art to create focal points here and there.

Yes! I have been having the same thought. Plant flowers and/or bushes that bloom, etc. It shows thoughtful planting and also gives joy to people. People may be much more forgiving with what is behind said beautiful plants (should what is behind be able to possibly be perceived as "messy") if given something uplifting in front. And who doesn't love flowers? :-) One could also put a couple of simple, one-sentence quotes that have a positive message on little placards on low stakes and plant them between said flowers and bushes. All of that also shows a giving, community-minded person on that property which makes it much more likely to have the good will of neighbors.

Anne Miller wrote:My neighbor came by last night to tell us that the county had leveled our fence.

Now we will have to spend our time going to the County Commissioners Court to get this resolved.

What? Without any warning or reason given?

Gray Henon wrote:…Now I fight with the county when they want to mow off the short plants I have in the road right of way.

I currently live within city limits of a town and saw a neighbor have a sign saying "please don't mow" along the right of way in front of his house. I was happy to see that it was actually respected!

Cristobal Cristo wrote:

Drew Wilkinson wrote:If you have a rodent problem, please use 0.5" welded wire and make 12" diameter cages from them. 18" tall should be sufficient for underground part. If you also encounter some destruction of the trunk, I would make them taller. This is how I planted 150 trees in my orchard.

I am about to plant about 25 fruit trees and there are a lot of voles on the property. So from my understanding, you are suggesting to put a 12" diameter wire cage with 1/2" openings 18"  deep UNDER the ground? Do the roots grow through the wire cage? I am getting bare root trees. Will I be able to get the roots that are longer than 6" through the wire cage when initially planting? Or maybe I am picturing what you are suggesting all wrong?