Jeff Sayler

When I started making bread I had trouble with brick loaves at first. I figured out that, for me at least, the key is in the kneading. I knead each loaf 300 times. Usually I make 4 loaves at a time so I knead the whole thing 1200 times. It's a lot of work but it's worth it. I haven't had any bread that I feel is superior to what I make (don't tell my mom). All I use is Bob's Red Mill whole wheat flour, water, salt, oil, honey and yeast. When I get everything perfect it rises as well as any white loaf and has a far superior texture.

wayne stephen wrote: What do want to bet that Monsanto is already playing with bee DNA ?

Back 2011 Monsanto bought Beeologics, a bee research firm. I'm afraid they are working on owning the worlds honey bees.

Sounds awesome man! Your preliminary test turned out VERY promising. This is such a cool concept, I'm glad you're going somewhere with it. Keep us posted!

David Williams wrote:

Jeff Sayler wrote:Pure cultures of spirulina are readily available online.

That seems to hold true on every continent other than Australia I have done extensive searches on aquaponics, aquaculture, pet-fish trade forum sites ect , All say to get it from CSIRO ($240 for 250ml) and kinda pricey for pond slime lol , would be happy to pay $20-40 for it, simply for the fact it's a live culture and likely not to be 100% successful first time around, and cant see that value since it doubles it's weight every day in the right conditions, seems like a licence to print money....

Looks like you've got an awesome business opportunity there. Spirulina is very popular here, and if it isn't in Australia it's bound to be soon. Seems like you could make your money back super fast if you spent that $240 and started selling cultures for $40-50. Especially if nobody else is doing it there yet.

Landon Sunrich wrote:Anyone know anything about crayfish? I hear those guys will eat anything. Just a rumor? I know crab will do for just about anything but a salt water system seems way way way to daunting for me at this point (I think... this fish thing - I have some experience but not in engineering them) Here's a picture of a 55 gallon drum (with pump) I've been brainstorming with. I can easily see having this outside my kitchen door on the deck and having a dish-rack that I can raise and lower into the drum to feed fishes

My biggest problem is always getting started. That and not having a credit card or bank account. Kinda limits the resources I'm able to take advantage of (no internet ordering )

Yeah man, like I said a couple posts back, I think crayfish would be very good for this. That 55 gallon barrel should work, I'd put the pump towards the bottom of the barrel facing up. That will provide good water circulation and reasonable oxygenation. Put the barrel in the shade so the little guys don't get over heated.

Dale Hodgins wrote:After 4 1/2 hours, the dishes are cleaner, but not perfectly clean. The squished cheese hasn't been touched. The egg and jam are gone. The coconut oil has been nibbled but some remains.

This time the only critter that I could see was this carp. I've been to the pond many times and never seen a foot long fish. A ten minute walk around didn't reveal others, so I think it's safe to assume that he was 4 feet from the dishes because he was attracted to that spot.

I'll check it out tomorrow.

Very much looking forward to seeing the results of this experiment. Don't be too discouraged if it doesn't work super well this time, many fish are reluctant to graze on unfamiliar food sources. If you make a habit of putting your dishes in the same spot on a regular basis the fish will become accustomed to eating this new food from these unfamiliar objects. Ideally you would want to set up a tank or pond near the kitchen with a varied community of fish, then present them with dirty dishes after every meal. I would bet after about a week the amount of eaten food increase drastically, as they become more comfortable with dishes and get more used to these types of food.

Another idea just popped into my mind. Shrimp or crayfish. I think they would be very effective dish cleaners. Being scavengers their digestive systems will be far more adapted to highly varied food sources, and they love to sit and pick bits of food off of stuff. I've even had shrimp come and clean my hand while i'm cleaning the tank.

If anybody does this in a closed system, like an aquarium, keep a very close eye on the nitrate levels. Be ready to do frequent water changes to keep up with the potential nutrient buildup. Of course this could be easily taken care of with a simple aquaponic setup.

I don't know about chlorella, but I've done quite a bit of research on spirulina. Pure cultures of spirulina are readily available online. Spirulina can handle very high ph, higher than what most other algae can handle, so to maintain a pure culture you just need to maintain a high ph, around 10 I think. I've been unable to find the specific nutrient ratio that spirulina needs, but there are prepared fertilizers available for the production of spirulina. Don't take this information as fact, this is what I remember right now off the top of my head, but tons of info is available online, just google "grow spirulina at home". From what I've read it is not very hard at all.

Michael Cox wrote:Perhaps bullshit, perhaps not. It looks like a very tall oil tank, with the heating elements at the top. The hot oil would stratify, so there would e a strong temperature gradient, getting cooler down the tank.

You couldn't see all the workings of the water part of the tank either - there may have been an oxgenating device of some sort, and even a cooling heat exchanger.

Yes it is a gimick, but it would be possible to build.

It is a very tall oil tank, I didn't see where the heating elements are. If they are at the top this is atypical for deep fryers, but that could be one aspect that would help this work. I'm still very sure that the temp gradient would not be great enough to keep the goldfish cool enough to survive. But I could be wrong.

You're right, we can't see all the workings of the tank, there could be external filtration and oxygenation. The sediment on the bottom and the particulates settling straight through the water column lead me to believe that there is very little current, if any, in the water. If there was external filtration you would see evidence of water flow. The sediment would at least be waving in the current, and the falling particles would be drifting in the current.

Dale Hodgins wrote:I've been invited out for dinner too many times in the last week, for me to get to this. I did ask if I could take their dishes to the pond, but was refused --- and laughed at.

On the oil question ---- Fish eat fat. Many times I've seen dead seals and other fatty things in the water. Thousands of little fish and some big fish feed off of them.
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That first Japanese entry was nothing more than an open gray water system. They wash the dishes by hand, with soap.

The other stuff seems to be a novelty grease trap. The quantity of grease would indicate that it's not all being eaten. It might be designed to show restaurant patrons the purity of their ingredients.
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I will buy one of those greasy chickens from a hot deli and completely coat some dishes tonight. I'll use some peanut butter, jam and other sticky stuff as well. There's no point in doing this with just vegetable juice or sugary waste. We all know how that would end. Dishes placed in plain water for a day or two, or a minute or two even, will come out pretty clean. Grease is the troublesome gick that detergents and other cleaners are designed to attack. I've never seen a TV commercial for dish soap where the lady says ---- "Look at how beautifully this miracle soap has cleaned the carrot juice off of my dishes". It's all about the grease.

Sorry for the delay. I'm having a very greasy lunch, followed by a secretive trip to a pond in Beacon Hill park.

Good example of an instance where fish would have the opportunity to consume fat. I would argue that there is some difference between solid fat coming directly from a carcass and the liquid oil that is usually used in cooking. I'm also not saying that they will not eat oil, I'm saying that it is not something that they would have access to in much quantity in the wild, therefore they probably are not adapted to a diet that is high in fat. Even if the fish do eat the oil, some will still end up on the surface and that will cause problems. If your water volume is great enough this won't cause any serious problems, but the volume of water necessary is greater than what most people could provide, I think.

Please don't take my arguments as criticism, I'm definitely looking forward to hearing the results of your experiment. Like I said, this is something I've thought about for quite a while, I'm glad somebody is going to give it a try.

What species of fish are you planning on using?

yukkuri kame wrote:

Jeff Sayler wrote:I thought of doing this awhile back. I would recommend scraping as much excess into the compost before putting the dishes in the aquarium. Greasy food probably would not be the ideal material for this experiment. Oil, in a free form, is something a fish would almost never (I would like to say never but it seems there's always some exception) find in it's natural environment. Even if the fish did go for the oily food, excess oil is going to end up on the surface, which will inhibit gas exchange and probably cause other problems. You could have an overflow on the aquarium to skim the oil off the surface, but then something has to be done with the oil because it isn't likely to break down quickly in the water.

Leave it to the Japanese.

This guy says he's been using this system for 10 years:

Ok, I'm sorry but I'm going to have to call bullshit on this one.

First, goldfish are a temperate species, thriving in temperatures ranging from 60-70 F. They stress very quickly when temperatures rise above 80. Though extremely high temperatures will kill them, generally the reason they die in higher temperatures is from oxygen starvation. The warmer water gets the less capacity it has for dissolved oxygen. These goldfish are in water with absolutely no surface area open to the air, so there is no possibility for gas exchange, just that factor alone would cause them to die within a day in that volume of water.

Second, as I stated before goldfish are temperate fish thriving in temps between 60-70 F. They can handle short periods in significantly lower temps, but i'm pretty sure they would die almost immediately as the temp reaches 100 F. I've never tested their maximum temp because I've never had a reason, but I've definitely killed tropical fish with temperatures in the 95 F range. The guy in the video showed the temp of the oil to be >160 C, which is >320 F. If the oil is that hot then the water has to be at least 200 F, way beyond the temps that a goldfish could possibly handle.

Third, the bio-load in that water is HUGE! the amount of nutrients falling into that water is massive, even if the goldfish did manage to eat it, all the nutrients are still in the water. The ammonia level would rise so rapidly you would have to do daily water changes to maintain a water quality that is sufficient for the fish to survive.

If the goldfish were really in water that was covered in a layer of oil hot enough to fry then those goldfish would be sitting as close to the bottom of the water column as they could get in an attempt to be as cool as possible. You would also see them pumping their gills very rapidly in an attempt to get enough oxygen. After a few minutes they would die and float to the surface of the water and start frying.

I could be wrong, I have been before, but I'm pretty sure in this case I'm right