Dale Hodgins wrote:I decided to search out the plant food diets of several tribes that were mentioned. It seems that they all had many plants that were used for both food and medicine. The link is for plant foods of the Masai.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1475560/
There are lists for the plant foods of just about every group of people imaginable, including the Plains Indians. So, while meat was an important part of their diets, plants were certainly eaten, long before they came into contact with Europeans.
There was mention of height of various peoples and its relationship to a high meat diet. The Dinka are probably the tallest people in Africa, with the average man coming in just under 6 ft tall. Not the Giants of 1930s story books. The Tutsi or Watusi, are about the same height. Both groups have plenty of plants in their diets. The Dutch are taller, and the Masai are shorter.
The Masai are cattle herders, and gave up much of their hunting and gathering ways, long ago. It's quite likely that 2000 years ago, they ate a much wider variety of food.
If we were looking for people in Africa with the most traditional diet, it would probably be the pygmies who live in dense forests. They generally do not cultivate crops, so they're not living on maize and sugarcane. The list of food that they consume is very large, and consists of both plants and animals.
I'm not proposing to this diet is a good or bad idea. Just clarifying that the tribes mentioned, do in fact consume plant material, and they have always done so, so far as we know. Some, particularly herders of Africa, gave up hunting and gathering long ago, and developed high meat diets, based on available supply, from their herds.
Matt Walker wrote:The only Masai that were carnivores are the warrior caste, the ones who need to be smartest and strongest and fastest. They save the superior nutrition for the people who need it the most.
Kathleen Sanderson wrote:
I know some people consider this to be 'racist' but studies of intelligence have shown some pretty low average IQ scores from the African nations. I don't know what all factors into that (IQ scores of American Blacks are also lower than average, on a modern American diet), but I do wonder if we might want to do more research before adopting their diet wholesale. (We have contacts in Kenya, and there -- and probably in other African nations -- the diet for poor people seems to be mostly starches, corn, cassava, yams, rice, etc. So that undoubtedly has some effect on the overall scores.)
Kathleen
R Jay wrote:
Kathleen Sanderson wrote:
I know some people consider this to be 'racist' but studies of intelligence have shown some pretty low average IQ scores from the African nations. I don't know what all factors into that (IQ scores of American Blacks are also lower than average, on a modern American diet), but I do wonder if we might want to do more research before adopting their diet wholesale. (We have contacts in Kenya, and there -- and probably in other African nations -- the diet for poor people seems to be mostly starches, corn, cassava, yams, rice, etc. So that undoubtedly has some effect on the overall scores.)
Kathleen
I find it interesting that diet is used as a possible intelligence indicator. In the 19th century, they measured the sizes of skulls.
In the 19th century, the British used craniometry to justify policies toward the Irish and black Africans,
whom the British considered to be inferior races.
Irish skulls were said to have the shape of Cro-Magnon men and were compared to those of apes, proof of their inferiority.
Black Africans were compared to the same standard.
Also,in France, Paul Broca demonstrated that women are inferior to men because of their smaller crania.
He argued against higher education for women because their puny brains couldn't handle the demands.
In the 20th century, the Nazis used craniometry to distinguish Aryans from non-Aryans.
There seems to be more of a correlation of higher IQ between {any} children who live in "good" neighborhoods who go
to "good" schools where teachers actually teach; and the IQ of those children who live in "bad" neighborhoods who go to schools
to be warehoused for 8 hours to keep them off the streets.
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James Freyr wrote: I’m not claiming food has made me smarter, but I think it certainly has improved my brain function.
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Dale Hodgins wrote:
Kenya contains about 49 million people. If you've ever watched long distance races, you may have noticed that about 80% of the world's top distance athletes come from that country. But, they actually come from the Kalenjin tribe, who make up about 10% of the population. So, this small group of 4.9 million people produces most of the world's elite distance athletes. I'd say it's got to be genetic. They are Nilotic people, related to the Masai, Dinka, Luo and others. I haven't been able to find any instance of any Nilote being an elite sprinter.
Back to diet. The Kalenjin have a diet very high in starch.
Since I've got into sports, let's look at sprinters. The vast majority of Olympic winners of the sprinting events, have been of West African origin. This includes those from Jamaica and other places in the Americas, including the United States. Diets are all over the place, depending on the local culture, so again I think it's genetic. I have not been able to find any example of an elite distance athlete from West Africa. So, the results on the playing field seem to correspond with genetic tests that say these folks are not closely related.
.......
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Nicole Alderman wrote:Hi all! I split this off to the Cider Press (and gave R jay an apple so he'd have enough to post). This was getting a little off topic for the all-meat diet thread, and I feared it might end up being too tempting for a troll to avoid posting on. So, it's in the Cider Press, to keep those trolls out.
Xisca Nicolas wrote:Maybe my post was not understood, because the theme of the reaction of the autonomic nervous system in not known enough! Then some of the next posts mention some traumatic events, or predators and preys... but you develop intelligence same as blinds develop touch: NEED. I developped intelligence where others might have developped deficiency! This was adaptative. If you do not recover from trauma, you can die, if not, you can get stronger, at least for certain parts of you....
Same as plant or animals! You get either shut down or you react and thrive! It depends on the resilience, on the resources, on the support...
If many kenyan from the same tribe win marathon, it isnot a proof of it being genetic only, as we are as much our genetic as the result of our story of stimulations versus drawbacks. Too much stimulation ruins you. Not enough leave you sleeping, and just enough makes you thrive!
"People may doubt what you say, but they will believe what you do."
David Livingston wrote:The problem as I see it Tod is that nearly every test I have seen that is supposed to measure intelligence actually measures how much education you have had and/or is cultrally biased . If you can come up with a definition of intelligence that is testable without these issues only then can I think you say what is down to genetics . I look forward to such a test.
Getting back to diet I am surprised that no one mentioned the ancient Romans as more than one study has noted the prevalence of lead poisoning due to the use of pewter plates and cups , acid wine and lemons plus enjoying the pleasures of rotten fish guts :-) not a diet for me :-)
David
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Todd Parr wrote:So, your contention is that the one tribe that overwhelming wins the distance races in the Olympics all have a greater need to run long distances than any other group of people in the world?
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Xisca Nicolas wrote: We know that selection will kill the weakest, but we forget the balance! What happen to the ones who are not killed? They thrive exponentially more. Because resilience is increased through self-regulation and social support.
It is has been proved also that trauma can change genes, and that this is transmitted genetically to children. The most extraordinary I read was about a japaneese team who proved that healing the trauma of a grand-mother changed the genetics of her grans-daughter ...who was already born!
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Living in Anjou , France,
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Living in Anjou , France,
For the many not for the few
http://www.permies.com/t/80/31583/projects/Permie-Pennies-France#330873
David Livingston wrote: how about we discuss how diet can effect behavior ?
John Weiland wrote:Just a clarification on the "trauma can change genes" notion.... but genes tend not to change: Their expression, however, *can* change, and in fascinating ways, on account of prior stress. These modifications can actually last a lifetime....but amazingly can also be reversed by, as you noted, trauma recovery efforts. Technically speaking, then, the genes have not changed, but their expression and impact on that individual have.
John Weiland wrote:Generosity and compassion ... nurturing .... concerned compassionate parenting, and counsel that teaches the world as a place of balance, not just something "red in tooth and claw" to be feared. Often, the outcome of this on a community level is a form of 'intelligence' not easily measured by the standard metrics.
Roberto pokachinni wrote:I think that intelligence is genetic, but the ability to use that intelligence effectively is highly culturally influenced.
Roberto pokachinni wrote: a child raised in a severe abusive place might not display much intelligence when he or she is first rescued from that situation ... the child would likely not grow up to use it's intelligence in the same way---certainly not in a way that could be measured well by an IQ test designed by the affluent elite.
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David Livingston wrote: how about we discuss how diet can effect behavior ?
David
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David Livingston wrote:Tod
I can only go on my own personal experiance , when I was ten years old I took an IQ test along with everyone else called the 11plus this was to decide if I should attend an academic school ( known as a grammar school ) or not so academic school ( technical or secondary modern ) for six months before we all practiced for this IQ test . I failed this exam but still managed to go to university as I improved in my teenage years others who passed this exam failed to get the required grades for uni . Are you saying my IQ stayed the same or the tests were flawed :-)
David
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has."-Margaret Mead "The only thing worse than being blind, is having sight but no vision."-Helen Keller
David Livingston wrote:Tod
I can only go on my own personal experiance , when I was ten years old I took an IQ test along with everyone else called the 11plus this was to decide if I should attend an academic school ( known as a grammar school ) or not so academic school ( technical or secondary modern ) for six months before we all practiced for this IQ test . I failed this exam but still managed to go to university as I improved in my teenage years others who passed this exam failed to get the required grades for uni . Are you saying my IQ stayed the same or the tests were flawed :-)
David
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Todd Parr wrote:
David Livingston wrote:Tod
I can only go on my own personal experiance , when I was ten years old I took an IQ test along with everyone else called the 11plus this was to decide if I should attend an academic school ( known as a grammar school ) or not so academic school ( technical or secondary modern ) for six months before we all practiced for this IQ test . I failed this exam but still managed to go to university as I improved in my teenage years others who passed this exam failed to get the required grades for uni . Are you saying my IQ stayed the same or the tests were flawed :-)
David
David, In answer to your question, I do think your IQ stayed the same, and I can't tell you either way if the test was flawed. I think lots of people are touching on something very important in this thread, and I think that's awesome. The critical thing here is that, while I believe intelligence is largely genetic, and is an extremely helpful thing to have with regards to achievements in life, it's certainly not the only factor. I have seen many, many highly intelligent people that didn't accomplish a lot, and just as many that weren't as intelligent that accomplished a great deal by hard work, drive, and dedication. Chalk my name to the list of people that were very bad students. Subjects I like I can really excel in. Try and teach me something I don't care about and the results are much less satisfactory. Skandi's post sounds like it could have been written by me, and our experiences echo one another.
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Inge Leonora-den Ouden wrote:I happened to meet this topic 'accidentally'.
I see it's going in some different directions. So it's OK if I give my opinion on some things I read here as well.
It's on 'intelligence' ('being intelligent'). What exactly is intelligence? Is it the ability to do well at school, to have high scores in tests? About the IQ being a number that remains the same during someone's life I heard different opinions, all 'scientific'...
Once in my life I did an IQ test. It was a test I had to do for school (to know which further education would be best for me). Some days before the test my mother started practicing with me ... She had a book on IQ-tests, with examples. My score on the test was very high! I think that does not tell I am very 'smart', but that I am a very good learner, that I was prepared well.
According to me an IQ-test is very one-sided. It tests the kind of intelligence that's needed for the European (and Northern American) education system. Only that, nothing more.
So I don't know if discussing the influence of the diet on the IQ will be of any value ...
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