Should I move, and where?

OK, here I am. I'm seriously considering moving away from San Francisco. I've been here 32 years, and I'm almost 56. Reasons: I'm stuck in a tiny apartment with no yard. Can't afford to rent a different apartment or house because the rents are astronomical. I have rent control where I am, altho if the landlady dies or sells, I could possibly be evicted under the Ellis act. Then I'd really be up $#!+'$ Creek. I have a small plot at a community garden, which is what has kept me somewhat sane this long. I like California, but any place I could afford would be really remote. I'm not young, and being that far from decent medical care is scary. I recently had a bad accident with my foot, and it really impressed upon me the need to be near good health care.

Ideally, I'd like to move a bit out into the country. Some place like the outskirts of Santa Rosa/Petaluma. But again, I can't afford it. I'm still considering moving down to the desert, around Joshua Tree. I have friends there. But the lack of water is frightening, and I hear health care is not good down there. I also like Tucson, but I hear the crime is bad there.

So I've been looking at moving back east, I'm originally from NYC, and my family is all still in the NY area. I'm looking at western Mass. It's really cheap there, and I like that they have real towns, not just strung out strip malls along the highway. I'd like to not have to be car dependent. I just don't know if I could handle those winters anymore. It's not so much the cold, as the gloom and length of the season. That's why I've discounted moving to Oregon or Washington. I really don't know what to do. I just feel like if I don't do something soon, it will be too late for me age wise. So I'm looking for advice here. Anyone do such a major move at such a late age? My health is fairly good, altho I am incapable of heavy work due to Ehlers-Danlos syndrome (I have weak joints/collegen that makes me a little delicate). So I'm open to ideas and suggestions as to where to go, and whether it's even a good idea. What I'd like is a small house with a bit of land, maybe half an acre, where I could have a big garden and some chickens and poultry. A place I wouldn't be absolutely dependent on a car, altho I do drive and have a (very old) car. I'm not looking for isolation.

Anyone do such a major move at such a late age?

Yes, for us anyway it was a major move just last fall when we both turned 65...probably one of our better decisions.

What I'd like is a small house with a bit of land, maybe half an acre, where I could have a big garden and some chickens and poultry. A place I wouldn't be absolutely dependent on a car

We looked for much the same...we found a small sweet house on just less than an acre in a small town that still allows chickens and livestock within the city limits. Our son and family live in this town and that was a big part of our decision...we can walk to the Post Office, the bakery and to see friends....very happy here.

I love your idea...and 56yrs doesn't sound at all like a 'late age'

To me it seems highly preferable to move on your own time schedule instead of being forced to do so when something outside your control changes. So I'd say moving now sounds advisable, while it's still your choice.

Do you have a latitude you don't want to be above? Or maybe a minimum winter solstice day length? That might help with the suggestions about where to move.

Judith Browning wrote:

Anyone do such a major move at such a late age?

Yes, for us anyway it was a major move just last fall when we both turned 65...probably one of our better decisions.

What I'd like is a small house with a bit of land, maybe half an acre, where I could have a big garden and some chickens and poultry. A place I wouldn't be absolutely dependent on a car

We looked for much the same...we found a small sweet house on just less than an acre in a small town that still allows chickens and livestock within the city limits. Our son and family live in this town and that was a big part of our decision...we can walk to the Post Office, the bakery and to see friends....very happy here.

I love your idea...and 56yrs doesn't sound at all like a 'late age'

Where did you move from to Ark.? Was it a warmer/milder climate?

Sharon Hilchie wrote:To me it seems highly preferable to move on your own time schedule instead of being forced to do so when something outside your control changes. So I'd say moving now sounds advisable, while it's still your choice.

Do you have a latitude you don't want to be above? Or maybe a minimum winter solstice day length? That might help with the suggestions about where to move.

I'm not sure latitude is so much a problem as cloud cover. I think any latitude in the continental US would be fine.

Where did you move from to Ark.? Was it a warmer/milder climate?

I should have been clearer...the 'major move' part was in mindset...going from forty acres and a large house to a small town.
The actual move was less than fifty miles.
I think as we grow older being near family becomes a more important reason to move.

Judith Browning wrote:

Where did you move from to Ark.? Was it a warmer/milder climate?

I should have been clearer...the 'major move' part was in mindset...going from forty acres and a large house to a small town.
The actual move was less than fifty miles.
I think as we grow older being near family becomes a more important reason to move.

Oh, OK.

"My health is fairly good, altho I am incapable of heavy work due to Ehlers-Danlos syndrome (I have weak joints/collegen that makes me a little delicate)."

The joys of being a zebra....
I am in the same boat and NH is easier after I had my knees replaced at age 39 but the cold damp winters hurt. Hopefully your EDS won't make aging harder but I understand the need for good medical care. I am in NH and I am still looking for a specialist.

My sister has major problems with EDS and moved to Arizona a few years ago. Not only does she and her boys breathe easier but her pain levels are much lower. While it is not the idea place to garden it may make the day to day life easier. It also has medical specialists that treat EDS which is not always easy to find.

John Hopkins in Baltimore has Doctors who know EDS and the Delmarva Peninsula is an easy place to grow stuff.

The Mayo Clinic unfortunately is also located in an area with cold nasty winters but they also have great EDS care.

Once you find your patch of earth to dig in I recommend knee high raised beds, light weight tools with long handles, and sturdy friends to move the heavy stuff.

Kate Muller wrote: "My health is fairly good, altho I am incapable of heavy work due to Ehlers-Danlos syndrome (I have weak joints/collegen that makes me a little delicate)."

The joys of being a zebra....
I am in the same boat and NH is easier after I had my knees replaced at age 39 but the cold damp winters hurt. Hopefully your EDS won't make aging harder but I understand the need for good medical care. I am in NH and I am still looking for a specialist.

My sister has major problems with EDS and moved to Arizona a few years ago. Not only does she and her boys breathe easier but her pain levels are much lower. While it is not the idea place to garden it may make the day to day life easier. It also has medical specialists that treat EDS which is not always easy to find.

John Hopkins in Baltimore has Doctors who know EDS and the Delmarva Peninsula is an easy place to grow stuff.

The Mayo Clinic unfortunately is also located in an area with cold nasty winters but they also have great EDS care.

Once you find your patch of earth to dig in I recommend knee high raised beds, light weight tools with long handles, and sturdy friends to move the heavy stuff.

Wow, I never thought I'd find another zebra on here! Who'd a thunk it? I thought I was the only rubber woman crazy enough to want to be a farmer, LOL.

My sister on Long Island had both knees replaced a few years ago. She's 6 years older than I am, and she has to wear braces on her ankles. She's always in pain. I'm lucky, I guess. I keep my weight way down (she's extremely overweight), and I walk and ride a bike for a lot of errands (at least I did until my accident), and that helps a lot. So far, I've been able to avoid the secondary arthritis. But I recently tripped over a small rock while walking, and I fell on my own foot and tore it in half. I had to have it rebuilt and fused, and I'm still in PT relearning how to walk. It's been hard. I spent 12 weeks casted and in bed. I also have blown a few discs in my lower back, and sometimes my hands really hurt. My PT told me that anyone else (non-EDSer) who fell like that would have just fractured their big toe.

Where in AZ does your sis live? I don't like Phoenix, but I like Tucson. Having lived in CA for 32 years, which is already a semi-desert climate, it would probably be easier for me to adapt to real desert gardening than cold climate, wet, humid gardening. The problems with Tucson are that if you live in the inner city, where you can walk to stuff (or ride a bike), you have a lot of crime. If you're outside of town, you absolutely need a car, and it has to be dependable, not like my 45 y/o VW.

Lori Ziemba wrote:

Judith Browning wrote:

Where did you move from to Ark.? Was it a warmer/milder climate?

I should have been clearer...the 'major move' part was in mindset...going from forty acres and a large house to a small town.
The actual move was less than fifty miles.
I think as we grow older being near family becomes a more important reason to move.

Oh, OK.

What town are you in? Are winters harsh?

What town are you in? Are winters harsh?

We moved to Stone County in 1973 from Illinois, so the winters by comparison seemed really mild. There are four distinct seasons though...sometimes miserably hot summers...fortunately the hotter the summer the less humidity. This winter was very mild and wet, but we had ice on the ground for a couple weeks one winter and another a drop to 18 below (in '76).....it's always different. Beautiful fall and spring seasons.
Our move was to Leslie...one county over.

I have family in Tucson so try to visit when we can. We both love the town and area...my breathing is always better there but I start missing rain after a week or two. It sounds as though Tucson might be a good fit for you. I know they have an extensive bus system so maybe you wouldn't need a car. We found the buses went most everywhere we wanted while there. Amazing farmer's markets and 'Native Seed Search' and craftpeople/artists....kind of touristy but avoidable.

I'm always an evangelist for Western MA, but it certainly does have drawbacks. The winters are long and dark (and sometimes bitterly cold, though that's changing) and it is hard to get around without a car since the low population density means there isn't much transit - though if you bike, there are a lot of bike trails between towns.

That said, it's a very farming- and permaculture-friendly area, and as an ex-Californian I find the small-town living to be much more sane than the Bay Area ever was. You'd probably want to be not too far from either Northampton or Springfield to be near the big medical centers (Cooley Dickenson and Baystate; Cooley is smaller but more pleasant to deal with).

"Wow, I never thought I'd find another zebra on here! Who'd a thunk it? I thought I was the only rubber woman crazy enough to want to be a farmer, LOL.

Where in AZ does your sis live? I don't like Phoenix, but I like Tucson. Having lived in CA for 32 years, which is already a semi-desert climate, it would probably be easier for me to adapt to real desert gardening than cold climate, wet, humid gardening. The problems with Tucson are that if you live in the inner city, where you can walk to stuff (or ride a bike), you have a lot of crime. If you're outside of town, you absolutely need a car, and it has to be dependable, not like my 45 y/o VW. "


Yeah I am crazy enough to try and be a farmer. Luckily my husband loves helping me with the heavy duty stuff and I am not trying to do it full time. This season will be my first season selling produce to friends and through a local community group. I live 15 minutes outside a city so I know lots of people who don't garden but I am scaling the venture to be part time. My body can't do 8 to 14 hour days anymore with out nasty painkillers which I won't take.

My sister is in the western suburbs of Phoenix in a kid friendly neighborhood and they have cars. Her and her youngest son's problems with EDS are serve so specialists and a dry climate were very big considerations when they moved from the NYC metropolitan area.

Since you do not have a pressing time schedule I would start taking vacations in places that you are considering moving too. Visit them and do lots of research while you are there. I vacationed in NH at different times of year for several years before I moved here. My sister did the same thing before they moved to the Phoenix suburbs.

Lori Ziemba wrote:OK, here I am. I'm seriously considering moving away from San Francisco. I've been here 32 years, and I'm almost 56. Reasons: I'm stuck in a tiny apartment with no yard. Can't afford to rent a different apartment or house because the rents are astronomical. I have rent control where I am, altho if the landlady dies or sells, I could possibly be evicted under the Ellis act. Then I'd really be up $#!+'$ Creek. I have a small plot at a community garden, which is what has kept me somewhat sane this long. I like California, but any place I could afford would be really remote. I'm not young, and being that far from decent medical care is scary. I recently had a bad accident with my foot, and it really impressed upon me the need to be near good health care.

Ideally, I'd like to move a bit out into the country. Some place like the outskirts of Santa Rosa/Petaluma. But again, I can't afford it. I'm still considering moving down to the desert, around Joshua Tree. I have friends there. But the lack of water is frightening, and I hear health care is not good down there. I also like Tucson, but I hear the crime is bad there.

So I've been looking at moving back east, I'm originally from NYC, and my family is all still in the NY area. I'm looking at western Mass. It's really cheap there, and I like that they have real towns, not just strung out strip malls along the highway. I'd like to not have to be car dependent. I just don't know if I could handle those winters anymore. It's not so much the cold, as the gloom and length of the season. That's why I've discounted moving to Oregon or Washington. I really don't know what to do. I just feel like if I don't do something soon, it will be too late for me age wise. So I'm looking for advice here. Anyone do such a major move at such a late age? My health is fairly good, altho I am incapable of heavy work due to Ehlers-Danlos syndrome (I have weak joints/collegen that makes me a little delicate). So I'm open to ideas and suggestions as to where to go, and whether it's even a good idea. What I'd like is a small house with a bit of land, maybe half an acre, where I could have a big garden and some chickens and poultry. A place I wouldn't be absolutely dependent on a car, altho I do drive and have a (very old) car. I'm not looking for isolation.

Lori, I think it is GREAT you want to make a change. For that, You get some Pie! (I love giving Pie away! It is, my new favorite internet "like", -plus I get to support World Domination financially)

I am sure it goes without saying, but SF is pretty INSANE to want to live, unless you are a millionaire tech startup minion. (Not to generalize, but I have had no less than 5-8? dear god, how many San Fran residents for 25+ years, get pushed out of their apartments under nefarious circumstances during this "boom"- really a shame) So I think if my pals who aren't into wanting a "slow lifestyle"/ to farm, to have some land, etc- are out on their heels- I can only imagine how, at any age, "walls" (whether self imposed, or the environment around you-feel like they are closing in.

I think that if you are able to financially, even taking a small break (2 weeks?) to areas that might interest you, to gain some perspective, check out community, etc- could be just what the doctor ordered. I feel like trying to go from point a) San Fran, apartment living, feeling trapped to B) I'm moving to the country, in another climate, and want to grow stuff might inadvertently, just form the high contrast, make this most likely very healthy change (that you seem to want) more intimidating.

Age, at any age it seems, over about 23, can be something that holds us back. Some issues (like needing to be near hospitals, etc, or knowing that in advanced age one would need specialized care etc) is worth considering. Same with having some community or family to lean on, especially if you get into developing land or significant garden/animal duties.

My husband is significantly older than I am. When I decided that I really wanted to make a big change. (I actually left the lower Hudson Valley outside NYC-to move to Rural NM!-so I'm familiar with your family's area/hometown area) I had to take into account that although I could live in a much more rural, even an "off grid" situation, My husband in 10 years, will be retiring, and despite great health, to feel comfortable with our new lifestyle-I wanted us to be be within 35-45 minutes of a major hospital in case of emergency. Also, wanting to be this same distance to a bigger "town" for services was something that came into play when thinking about where we might live. Of course, usually, (but not always!) this eliminated some cool spots I wanted to explore, some lower priced options, etc- but after about a year of research I felt that we found our spot.


I wanted to make a major change, but I have numerous friends who wanted to explore a foray into having a home/land/gardens who moved near and around Hudson, NY. Anywhere within about 10 miles is now getting really expensive (as the city is rather hip and developing especially in the localvore/small cottage farming industries etc) But, even as recent as 9 months ago, if you looked 25 miles around it, you can find land and a decent house. I suggest checking that area out, simply due to the community, there are hospitals, Amtrak runs there, (you can get a train into NYC if need be with ease) and you will find like minds. Not all the folks who are setting up roots in that area are 26 either. I have a few friends who finally have left NYC/brooklyn in their early 40s to start something new there-and they are digging it.

Another bonus is in the Hudson area, there is signifiant culture, that I feel someone from San Fran (especially a long time resident) would desire, and feel "weird" without. (not meaning to take liberties on what your interests are, bear that in mind !

I am aware of several supportive community gardens/organizations, (even in the general area) where you could make contacts with others who would share work/share the bounty of your gardens and projects. As far as I know, people are very supportive and interested in others up there. I would just advise if you consider that, to get looking asap, as even in 4 years, I have seen real estate jump quite a bit. (but there are plenty of areas that are still doable for even a humble budget, you just would have to have a car)

Another bonus is that because that area is rapidly growing, there does appears to be a job market, even if you wanted to work part time. I lived for a few years with my husband right in the Woodstock area (about 30 minutes south) and I wouldn't say that was the situation down there. The economy was a little depressed, and I was happy to move, as going to the local water hole, sometimes felt depressing with all the unemployment and lack of motivation radiating from the bar stools. I did not get that vibe in Hudson. (Or even Kingston, NY for the matter- That's another option, and that is about 60 miles south of Hudson, NY)

I don't have much experience north of the Upstate NY area, so I'll let other members advise there, and of course, my thoughts, are trying to keep in mind that you have family in the NYC area-

Keep us updated on your choices, and remember that you could chose to move when you're 70, you might not be able to work 14 hours in a garden, but you could find a community and abode that would be happy and supportive of you too. I know all too well feeling intimidated to make the big leap. My "leap" took me about 2 1/2 years of planning, and even though after all that work, now I'm here with tons of work (and can get overwhelmed) the fresh air and the possibilities, (and not feeling suffocated by the city or those societal pressures) feels GREAT. I want everyone to feel that way wherever they are!

Keep Looking! I used to just search "LandandFarm.Com" put in my budget, and see what popped up. (even just to daydream) If I didn't know the geographical area that popped up, I would get to googling, and I found a few places I never would have thought of otherwise that way.

I am going to give you advice based on my experience and which I don't pretend fits your situation. Growing up and Air Force brat, and then an FAA brat I moved every few years. When I got on my own I moved quite a bit more often. When I married we still moved every 2 or 3 years until we landed in Alaska where we stayed 13 year in the same house. The kids still speak very fondly of the place, but have gilded it quite a bit in their memories.

About 7 years ago, at the ripe old age of 53, My wife and I with half a dozen kids still in the house, moved from Anchorage Alaska to southern Indiana. Doing so seemed like the best thing to do at the time. We moved away from my parents, 4 brothers, 1 sister and a rapidly growing next generation of relatives. We also left the closest friends we have ever had. (My mom told me once, if you have one true friend in your whole life, your pretty lucky. Well, we both found ours.) Less importantly, but not insignificant, I took a 33% paycut. In exchange, we got all 4 seasons, dramatically extended possibilities for growing things, and most importantly, me home every night (I was out of town Monday through Friday about 1/2 the time year round, about 4/5 of the time in the summer). We still miss our friends and family. When I moved, I figured relatives would come to visit a few times, like it, and eventually move to our location. (that's how a lot of people end up in Alaska). While we have made friends, they are not nearly as close as the ones we left. No family has moved near us. Kids that have married have so far all ended up in either Utah or Colorado (one family is going to move back to Homer, Alaska in a year of two). Was the move a mistake? Not really. It didn't turn out quite like we hoped, but we have gained some valuable experiences here also. We made our choice and we live with both the good and bad results.

In a couple of years my wife and I will have an empty house and will probably sell out and head out west where the grandkids are.

The general principals of deciding if you should move:
- Age is just a number.
- Do pay attention to the physical limitations creeping up on you. They will probably only get worse.
- Look at what you will be giving up, in relationships, in convience (it takes a couple of years at least to really figure out a new area). Ending some relationships can be a plus.
- Whenever you move, there is a new world of possibilities opened up for you. They are only possibilities rather than certanties, but sometime possibilities are better than the certainties you have facing you where you're at.
- Moving allows you a great opportunity to reinvent yourself. Once a bunch of people know you in an area, there are social expectations that tend to hold you in a certain mold. If you move and show your new aquantences Lori the bold, Lori the funny, Lori the adventurous, or Lori the whatever you want, within a short time the social pressure is now on you in a new, reinvented, hopefully better model of yourself.

Lori, before you rule out Washington, I'd suggest you look into the area of Sequim.

It's in the "rain shadow", ie the rain bypasses it, and I've heard that it's sunny, though I haven't been there.
I've also heard that there are lots of retirees, so there'd be services and peers.
And it's a reasonable distance to Seattle, where there are lots of hospitals and clinics and doctors.
What I saw of Silverdale, which I think is also in the rainshadow, looked bicycle-friendly-ish.
And there is public transport in the area.

It would be easier to visit from where you are than the east coast is, not to mention a shorter move.
I'm about to move from western Wash to the east coast, and if all else were equal I'd choose a move of hundreds of miles over one of three thousand.

I'm currently not too far from there (though I'm in the clouds and rain),
and it seems to me that there are a lot of owner-builders, gardeners, diy'ers and preparedness-ers around,
surely some of them must be of the permaculture persuasion.

I have family in rural western Mass.
There are beautiful small towns, but I wouldn't call it inexpensive, unless maybe compared to california.
Even with the gigantic sales tax here, I've found living in WA easier than in MA.
Don't underestimate the expense and effort of winter in a snowy/icy climate.

I'm older than you and I'm about to move 3000 miles then build.
I can't say I'm extremely confident, but it will work out one way or another. :-)

Good luck to you!

My vote is for Colorado.  It's sunny pretty much all the time, it has seasons, but they aren't crazy extreme, depending on where you go you can have anything from mountains to foothills to forest to plains...and all those things are in easy driving distance for a nice change when you want it.

I lived in Phoenix for a number of years and visited Tucson a few times.  I didn't like it at all.  I didn't spend a lot of time there, but to me it looks industrial and dirty.  I much preferred areas like Flagstaff, or remote areas like Show Low.

No matter what you decide, best of luck to you.  BTW, I'm 53 and it doesn't feel old to me at all most days