never reveal your age

One day I was at my job as a software engineer and I was making about $35 per hour. And we hired a guy that the company paid $300 per hour. He didn't seem to be all that great. But rather than focus on how he should be paid less, I became hyper-focused on how there were software engineers that earned $300 to $1000 per hour. What does it take to qualify for that. I met some other people that seemed to be watching the same sort of thing and started trading notes.

My new philosophy was: by going into an office and doing software engineering that helps a company (rather than software engineering that seems cool, fun and changing the world for the better), I am, effectively, a prostitute. Selling my services. So then what makes the difference between a $2 whore and a $10,000 whore? If I'm going to spend an enormous slice of my life being a whore, why not get paid far more?

Within a few months I had tripled my pay and gradually raised it more and more .... I could fill quite a few books on what I learned, but today I am writing about one very specific point.

While working at a place where I was getting very good pay, I met a guy that was getting $5000 per day and I took him to lunch. And I told him that I had the evil intent to extract clues from him on how I, too, could earn so much per day. I got the impression that there was something about me that he liked and was open to sharing.

There were lots of things he shared that were damn sharp. And it seemed a bit like everything in permaculture: it isn't just one thing, it is dozens of little things that all add up. At the top of the heap was this glaringly obvious thing: never reveal your age.

He then laid out the logic. Which, once he said it, made such perfect sense that I'm shocked that I never thought of it before. It's so simple, it seems that it would be one of the great facts for all of society. For each society in every culture.

If you do not reveal your age:

- icky people will assume you are too old or too young - thus be reluctant to work with you.

- lovely people will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume your age is closer to the ideal - thus be more likely to draw you in.

Therefore, icky people push you away and lovely people draw you in.


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It seems that it used to be that you would never ask an adult how old they are. But now it seems to be pretty standard stuff. Even more, it is a large part of many parts of modern society. If you want to use a dating site, you are posting your age. In fact, a lot of stuff where you are dealing with computers, if you don't reveal your age, you are not allowed to participate. Anything in the health care industry or the banking - required.

So, perhaps, in this small way, we had something much better many decades ago. We called it "respect". You show respect to people by not asking their age, or not asking how much they earn. But today, it is not considered rude to ask somebody for their age or their birthday.


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In a similar vein, some people need to know your birthday. They usually want to figure out my astrology stuff. And I always say "you tell me - what is my sign?" About half the time, they get it right.


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I guess I've now spent so much time embracing this man's advice that there have been times where I had to do the math to figure out how old I am. My guess was a year or two off. There have also been times when I would realize "oh, my birthday was four days ago! So how old does that make me?"


I think his advice really does work: not sharing your age repels icky people and draws in lovely people.

I found this post way back maybe in 2016 when I first found this forum and I am reminded of this almost daily ....

BTW, I am a Pisces.

Thanks for bumping this!  It seems I find myself explaining this to somebody about once a month.  Often when they ask me how old i am.  And now I can just point them to this thread.

I am sure you are correct about the age issue.   But, I simply cannot identify with the money factor. I am not naive. I know money carry’s  some level of importance.  Hell, I have owned 3 BMWs.  But, I have set the record at the organization I was CEO of for turning down raises.  I have always been confused when someone tells me they are worth more $$$.   I could never identify my value in terms of $. In fact, maybe akin to the prostitution you mention, I find expressing my value in terms of $ to be demeaning.

John F Dean wrote:I am sure you are correct about the age issue.   But, I simply cannot identify with the money factor. I am not naive. I know money carry’s  some level of importance.  Hell, I have owned 3 BMWs.  But, I have set the record at the organization I was CEO of for turning down raises.  I have always been confused when someone tells me they are worth more $$$.   I could never identify my value in terms of $. In fact, maybe akin to the prostitution you mention, I find expressing my value in terms of $ to be demeaning.

Definitely.  

And, while working for a company, I know how much i am getting paid per hour.  And I know how much the consultant/contractor is getting paid per hour.  10x.  

At the same time, while working there, it was ....  fine.  Yucky people playing their yucky office politics games that go on and on in nearly every company.  And most of the people there stuck to the idea that if my opinion mattered, i would be paid more.  Within months, i was getting paid more than triple.  And within a year after that, it was almost triple again.  

And, at some point around 2004 I decided to leave all that and try to "save the world" with permaculture.

People do seem to think that age matters, but like sex, race, religion, if you can't tell - does it matter?

I have to work out my age from the year it is. I do remember my birthday, but have to admit as I get older it matters less!

When asked his age my father always replied, “I’m as old as my tongue and a little older than my teeth.” 🙂

Welcome to the forum!  Your father was a wise man ...

Certainly, when I was working in computers, it was important not to show my age. I never got paid very well, but I did get jobs, partly because I looked younger than I was. Most older people didn't get hired. Women even less.
Now that I'm retired it doesn't seem to matter. I'm that generic "old lady" age.
One's age is certainly significant in terms of the world one came up in, and what the social understanding was at that time, what history one has lived through, and how that shaped one's worldview. But tells much less without the associated place.
My most interesting age reveal was once on public transit. The man sitting next to me and I were getting acquainted, clearly interested in each other. We asked each other's age.
I was 48. He was 18. We both drew back a bit. It might have been fun, but it wasn't going to be the kind of relationship either of us was interested in.

People's presumptions of age can be "interesting" too.

I have always been one of those Dick Clark type people. High school friends were getting in to bars. I, on the other hand, was still being carded as I pushed into my 40's.  

I started going to art shows with my woodwork back in the 70's and learned some things through experiences.  Out of conversations with other vendors, I got the impression the old farts didn't take me as seriously as they did other associates. I was clean-shaven. Another year, I returned to a show with a full beard and mustache and noticed I was treated differently.

The aforementioned experience taught me lessons I could look to in the future. One lesson was, I shouldn't be overly impressed with the opinions of others. Another was, I could manipulate my appearance to alter how people perceived me.

Years later, my quite thick head of hair turned prematurely silver. I had contemplated hair dye, but was still in the Dick Clark mode, so left the hair alone for its "old age and wisdom" value in my contractor and art (functional wood art, glass etch, etc.) endeavors.

The age math reminds me that occasionally folks will ask me how long I've been married...they start to chuckle when I pause as in they somehow caught me not knowing.  The fact is that the number of years married changes annually, but the date we were married never changes, so I can always figure it out.  I'd rather not take up the brain space attempting to remember the number it presently is when I can remember the date and get it from there (so long as I know when I am presently).

"You don't get paid for the hour. You get paid for the value you bring to the hour." ~ Jim Rohn

This quote has always stuck with me, although I typically need to look it up to correctly attribute it (I knew it was either Jim Rohn or Zig Ziglar).  The odd thing is that my IT career was with the federal government where value wasn't valued...that is since it wasn't a profit-driven environment, the budget didn't matter, so it really was about dollars for time rather than the value delivered.  That was part of the reason my sanity required me to get out.  I really struggled with contractors and consultants brought in and paid more who didn't deliver any additional value than the employees (who were often underutilized in the first place) could have delivered if there was any communication about what manglement was attempting to accomplish.  Granted, there were some very niche skills that sometimes did require a contractor that the staff didn't have at that time and things were urgent enough that you couldn't wait for someone to develop that skill.

The older I get, the less concerned I am about age, although as noted earlier, it does help to inform as to what sort of era one may have been raised int.

Ellen Lewis wrote: I'm that generic "old lady" age.

I think above a certain age people (women in particular) become invisible - I wonder if I'd like a third career as a spy?

Well... depends on who's asking.
Generally I answer with "old enough"  or if probed a little deeper, I answer "30. It's an age to be old enough and a still  little crazy".

I honestly can't tell anyone's age. I don't remember my husband's DOB (I carry it on a piece of paper in my wallet along with our  phone #) .
I just don't think about it and don't care.
As someone once said "age is a state of mind" and I agree.

Nancy Reading wrote:

Ellen Lewis wrote: I'm that generic "old lady" age.

I think above a certain age people (women in particular) become invisible - I wonder if I'd like a third career as a spy?

We're often underestimated, that's for sure.  Which can be fun sometimes if you can get past the insult.  I've had a few wide eyes and dropped jaws directed my way after "helping" someone who assumed they had to be more intelligent or competent than a frumpy little ol' lady.  

At least no one's offered to help me across the street yet... :D

I think it is neat having to show my driver`s license at liquor stores.  I guess they can never be to careful ...

Anne Miller wrote:I think it is neat having to show my driver`s license at liquor stores.  I guess they can never be to careful ...

While enjoying an infrequent dinner out the other day, I saw on the screen of one of the POS stations a screen saver bouncing around that said that people born before this date in 2003 were legal to buy alcoholic beverages.  (2003!!!)  

On deceiving looks:

(1) About 45 years ago, I was in a bar with the wife and in-laws. A guy kept hitting on wifey. Her brother and father told him, several times, she was married. He just kept at it. There was only one place open at the bar. It was next to him. I sat there, didn't say a thing or do anything other than sit there. The guy started running his mouth. One thing he said was, he and his buddy, in the back room, used to kick young punks butts just for entertainment. He even pointed the guy out.

I can be pretty warped and conniving. I made some more than rude comments about his buddy. The comments were bad enough he had to run tell the guy in the back room.

The guy from in back came up and asked if I'd said what I'd said. I looked him right in the eye and said, "yes." He looked me right in the eye and said, "if you weren't my brother I'd kick your ass."

Comically, the guy made a bee-line out of there. My brother [in-law] told me I was at least three years older than him.

(2) I was having trouble with a new car I'd bought. The dealer was playing games. The mechanic actually patted me on the head while he was talking to me.  I said nothing and was able to talk him into letting me look at the electrical problem using their schematics and diagrams. They were having problems locating the cause of the problem.  The mechanic pointed out where the diagrams and schematics were, which was with the records of my attempts to get the car fixed. I, uh, borrowed those records and stashed them when I got back to my car.  

Using their schematics, I was able to pinpoint and fix the problem (took about an hour). It was fun pointing out to their genius mechanic I was a year older than him. Of course, there, also, was that I solved the problem stumping him.



Sometimes, what seems like a deficit can be an asset, and can provide some solid entertainment.

Story Time!

Decades ago, I was a member of a social softball team. We had a variety of ages of team members, sexes, jobs etc.

After a game, we often went out for dinner and a "drink". We were at one place and the first four people who ordered a drink, enthusiastically asked for beer. I watched as the waitress got more and more nervous. She didn't *want* to card the next two people in line, but they certainly looked younger and questionable.

The first one, equally enthusiastically, said, "I want a milk!!!" The waitresses' relief was apparent to all. What I don't think she realized, was that the boy's dad was sitting with his back to her - also a team member - so I *knew* that the underage son wasn't going to even *try* to order alcohol!

The whole team enjoyed the "prank" and no one was hurt by it.

in this thread I talk about privacy stuff, and how medical stuff needs  you to share your birthday with the whole room no matter what room you are in

Eight years ago they asked for my birthday. I said "Are you hoping to send me a gift on my birthday? Because we only just met and I won't feel slighted at this point if you don't send me one. Maybe we can revisit this topic when we know each other better." "The computer is asking." "Well, I've never known a computer to send me a gift, so I really think that is pointless." Amazingly, she let it go!

SNORT - love it.


I used to do a lot of administrative law work.  One of my favorite things to do was, write responses to government agents sent clients demanding certain things or making claims. Often, these documents did not have an agent's name, or, when they did, lacked a signature.

My response was always in declaration form. It always let the agency know it was purposed to build an administrative record, since the courts declared due process begins at the administrative level and the courts would look to the record of the agency when considering cases moved out of the administrative processes to a court. Often, the responses contained notice of laws and agency policies. Finally, the document incorporated public records requests.

SIDE NOTE: I made the heading look as much like a court document as possible. That included listing the types of actions (e.g., notices, records requests, declaration, administrative motions).

In the records requests (The State of Washington has powerful public records laws (chapter 42.56 RCW (formerly chapter 42.17 RCW)) I sought:

(1) The authority the agency was relying on to re-delegate its authority to a computer.

(2) If the aforementioned delegation did not exist, the authority the agency relied on to re-delegate its authority to a computer operator.  

(3) If neither of the aforementioned delegations existed, the authority the agency was relying on to re-delegate its authority to the corporation or other person outside their agency to issue the document "Marked EHIBIT 1, attached hereto and incorporated herein by reference."

(4) Documents by which I can determine if the document was issued by the agency.

(5) Documents by which I could determine who, in their agency, issued the attached document.

. . . .

Add to the fray, I'd point out I realized the document might be a fraud using its letterhead, so the document should be considered as notice of the fraud, in even they could not produce documents verifying the document was legit.


Hilarity always ensued.

paul wheaton wrote:in this thread I talk about privacy stuff, and how medical stuff needs  you to share your birthday with the whole room no matter what room you are in

Eight years ago they asked for my birthday. I said "Are you hoping to send me a gift on my birthday? Because we only just met and I won't feel slighted at this point if you don't send me one. Maybe we can revisit this topic when we know each other better." "The computer is asking." "Well, I've never known a computer to send me a gift, so I really think that is pointless." Amazingly, she let it go!