• Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
permaculture forums growies critters building homesteading energy monies kitchen purity ungarbage community wilderness fiber arts art permaculture artisans regional education skip experiences global resources cider press projects digital market permies.com private forums all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
master stewards:
  • Anne Miller
  • Nicole Alderman
  • r ranson
  • Pearl Sutton
  • Mike Haasl
  • paul wheaton
stewards:
  • Joylynn Hardesty
  • Dave Burton
  • Joseph Lofthouse
master gardeners:
  • jordan barton
  • Greg Martin
gardeners:
  • Carla Burke
  • Ash Jackson
  • Kate Downham

Faggots, retards, and volunteer moderators.

 
Posts: 136
11
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

paul wheaton wrote:My understanding is that in england, "faggot" can be a stick or a cigarette.


In England you can refer to a cigarette as a "fag" but definitely not as a "faggot".

https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/290786/origin-of-fag-meaning-a-cigarette-in-british-english
 
Posts: 1
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
It seems to me that what has been lost (in addition to common sense) is the inability to read something and be able to identify context and intent.  The English language, in all it's forms and dialects, have many words with varied meanings.  Some is slang and others are words rooted in the language itself.  Both the context and intent of the post being referred to here, not only is the word properly used, when considered in its context, but also within its intent.  People look to be offended.  If more people would not put up with those who take terms out of context and with no ill intent, instead of bowing to the PC pressure, we'd have a much more civil society, both on and offline.
 
gardener
Posts: 1800
643
personal care gear foraging hunting rabbit chicken cooking food preservation fiber arts medical herbs homestead
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

William Allendorf wrote: I remain your Superannuated Flatulence ever



I'm SOOOOO stealing this!!! :P
 
pollinator
Posts: 330
Location: Southern Finland zone 5
107
goat fungi tiny house books homestead
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I want to thank you volunteer moderators again!

What you are doing is truly amazing.

I don't spend much time on FB, twitter and other such forms of social media but I do occasionally spend time on email lists and discussion forums. One of my favorites, I think the best of them as far as non-Permies sites go, is mainly comprised of researchers, professors and other people interested in a very specific topic. They are what you might call very well read people who are excellent writers and whose social skills are good and who all share somewhat similar values. Still, it never ceases to amaze me how quickly things can get heated in that forum and how much one person can influence the morale of the whole discussion forum. No one ever uses any "bad" words there but they still manage to get into a fight while argumenting politely and rationally. I don't think they are evil people. They just do not know how to be nice. As there are no moderators or publishing standards, all that a peace loving person can do is to try and get in between the fighters and try to make them both feel heard while looking for common ground. That works up to a point but it doesn't solve the real issue.

My point is that what you are doing here is so much more than just deleting posts with certain words. You are helping people to be nice, to present their rational arguments in a non-hurtful way. That to me is something worthy of a Nobel Peace Prize
 
Posts: 307
Location: Stone Garden Farm Richfield Twp., Ohio
24
  • Likes 4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I've been thinking about this thread and in particular it's title. Several people have said that it was thought provoking, that the title caused them to read the thread and comment, and that it was maybe even clever. Several people have seemed to support the idea that it's ok to use what is generally thought to be unacceptable language in the cause of the greater good.

But after thinking about it for a bit, I think not. Poor language is simply poor language. There really is no excuse for using it. There are much better ways to express ourselves. We don't need to resort to the profane, disparaging or disgusting. There's just no need. I'm not suggesting that words be banned. For example I've always thought the whole American requirement to say "the n-word" instead of the actual word, was/is a very childish response to a word that need never be used in the first place. If you're going to use a word, don't play games with it. Be honest and use it. But, words that once were acceptable words like that one, and like those used in the title of this thread, have now acquired such an enormous amount of loaded meaning that there just is no longer need to use them for any reason. We are better than that. We can do better than that. We do not need to use language that upsets or demeans or condescends or patronizes.
 
master steward & author
Posts: 20690
Location: Left Coast Canada
5770
books chicken cooking fiber arts sheep writing
  • Likes 10
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I suspect the point of this thread is that words that are very offensive in one part of the world, have no such emotional baggage in another.  

Sometimes...

Person A uses a word as they understand it to mean: for example faggot for describing a bundle of small sticks.

Person B lives in a part of the world where that word is an extreme insult.

Person A has no idea that Person B is insulted by this word.  Person B is angry and upset that Person A is being deliberately offensive.

A has no idea there is a problem.  B has no idea that A has no idea there is a problem.  Things escalate.  

This thread is about communicating.  It's about helping people understand that this situation happens.  Neither A nor B is to blame.  But maybe B has the advantage because they are aware that something is wrong here, and they can use the tools at their disposal to communicate their discomfort.  We have a snazzy report button that is perfect for this situation.  Person B politely draws the attention of the moderators to the post in question and lets us know that this word is causing unpleasantness.  


 
pollinator
Posts: 845
Location: Southern Oregon
228
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Mike Barkley - Chi chi is what most people of Mexican heritage around here call breasts, in fact, it is the standard word that most people around here use in reference to breastfeeding. They ask their children if they want a chi chi. I did, everyone I know did. More amusing to me, is that a bunch of grown men would giggle at this.

That aside, I do understand being mindful of others experiences.
 
gardener
Posts: 1749
Location: Los Angeles, CA
482
hugelkultur forest garden books urban chicken food preservation
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I have a friend who grew up in a Mexican-American family, where they used the term "ya-ya" to refer to their female parts, as in, "Go take your bath and make sure you wash your ya-ya."   It was a big family with a lot of girls --- lots of ya-ya's.  The term was used politely, not to be naughty or crude.

One day some of their friends came to visit.  They were from the Philippines, where the term "Ya-ya" was a term of affection used to refer to a housekeeper or nanny.  "The Ya-ya is coming over tonight to watch you while we go out for dinner."  

So after dinner, the adults moved to the living room to sit and talk, while the kids went to the back room where someone put a video on the TV to entertain them.  Someone else asked, "Where are the kids?", to which the Filipino mom responded, "Oh, we set them in front of the electric Ya-Ya."

My friend spit out her coffee in laughter.
 
gardener
Posts: 950
Location: Galicia, Spain zone 9a
234
dog duck chicken cooking food preservation fiber arts pig bike bee solar ungarbage
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Galadriel Freden wrote:

Burra Maluca wrote:

a favourite meal...



My (Welsh!) husband has fond memories of eating them at boarding school.  I don't dare ask what's in them :)



They are delicious!

 
Mandy Launchbury-Rainey
gardener
Posts: 950
Location: Galicia, Spain zone 9a
234
dog duck chicken cooking food preservation fiber arts pig bike bee solar ungarbage
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
My friend was the head of French at the same school at which I taught, and one exam that had been set was a translation of a passage describing a young man's first day at work and how he had overslept.  His father knocks at his bedroom door and tells the lad that it is 7.30. 'Zut alors' exclaims the boy. 'Je suis en retard'. This translates as Oh no! I am late! However, one student translated it as 'Oh shit! I am a retard!'  I told a group of my students about this (many years later, different school) and they found it hilarious. But if they ever made a mistake in their work, they would exclaim Zut alors - je suis en retard!

Faggots are delicious meaty goodness and can be made to this recipe by the awesome Scott Rea, butcher extraordinaire
 
 

Joseph is quite right - us Brits think it is hilarious that you have a president named after a fart.
 
pollinator
Posts: 146
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada -- Zone 5a
58
cat trees books cooking bee writing
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
My story to add...

I was an au pair to a trio of English children when I was 19 years old. A few days into my stay, they were acting up in the way children do... nothing terrible, but a little bratty. As a Canadian, and thinking nothing of it, I affectionately chided them: "That's enough, you little buggers!"

Shocked silence. That day I learned that bugger had another meaning, and that it was considered a swear word over there. Oops! Oh well, just part of my education.
 
gardener
Posts: 1845
Location: southern Illinois.
429
composting toilet food preservation homestead
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hi Heidi,

Language is constantly in flux.  Words change their meanings geographically, as you pointed out, and they change by generation, sub culture, and a variety of other ways.  ....including family to family.  Most families have, at some level, their own private language. That is words and expressions that take on a special meaning.  For example, my father had a code word of "Christmas Tree".  If he used that word in any context, it meant that there was a serious problem , and we were to follow his lead without question. To explain, my father was a union president in Detroit in the 1950s. Things could get exciting.
 
pollinator
Posts: 133
Location: Zone 9A, 45S 168E, 329m Queenstown, NZ
70
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Heidi Schmidt wrote:My story to add...

I was an au pair to a trio of English children when I was 19 years old. A few days into my stay, they were acting up in the way children do... nothing terrible, but a little bratty. As a Canadian, and thinking nothing of it, I affectionately chided them: "That's enough, you little buggers!"

Shocked silence. That day I learned that bugger had another meaning, and that it was considered a swear word over there. Oops! Oh well, just part of my education.





Bugger is not considered an offensive word in NZ and this iconic ad aptly illustrates its common usage https://www.nzonscreen.com/title/bugger-toyota-hilux-commercial-1999
 
Heidi Schmidt
pollinator
Posts: 146
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada -- Zone 5a
58
cat trees books cooking bee writing
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Megan Palmer wrote:

Heidi Schmidt wrote:My story to add...

I was an au pair to a trio of English children when I was 19 years old. A few days into my stay, they were acting up in the way children do... nothing terrible, but a little bratty. As a Canadian, and thinking nothing of it, I affectionately chided them: "That's enough, you little buggers!"

Shocked silence. That day I learned that bugger had another meaning, and that it was considered a swear word over there. Oops! Oh well, just part of my education.





Bugger is not considered an offensive word in NZ and this iconic ad aptly illustrates its common usage https://www.nzonscreen.com/title/bugger-toyota-hilux-commercial-1999



Just got a very good laugh out of that... thanks!
 
Megan Palmer
pollinator
Posts: 133
Location: Zone 9A, 45S 168E, 329m Queenstown, NZ
70
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Heidi Schmidt wrote:
Just got a very good laugh out of that... thanks!



It never ceases to make me smile whenever I watch it!
 
gardener
Posts: 514
Location: Western Kentucky
188
dog gear foraging trees hunting food preservation cooking fiber arts woodworking wood heat rocket stoves
  • Likes 4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Heidi Schmidt wrote:My story to add...

I was an au pair to a trio of English children when I was 19 years old. A few days into my stay, they were acting up in the way children do... nothing terrible, but a little bratty. As a Canadian, and thinking nothing of it, I affectionately chided them: "That's enough, you little buggers!"

Shocked silence. That day I learned that bugger had another meaning, and that it was considered a swear word over there. Oops! Oh well, just part of my education.



Every time I hear that word I think of this song:

I love it. Even as an American, I think I get the gist of it.
 
Heidi Schmidt
pollinator
Posts: 146
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada -- Zone 5a
58
cat trees books cooking bee writing
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I love it! I think with a few lyrics changes in the verses, I might just be able to have a really good use for this song!
gift
 
Willie Smits: Village Based Permaculture Approaches in Indonesia (video)
will be released to subscribers in: soon!
reply
    Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic