Fava vs Broad Vs lima vs butter beans :-)

David Livingston wrote:What's the difference between these beans ? I notice that real seed co differentiate and say that  Fava beans cannot be grown where I live http://www.realseeds.co.uk/runnerbeans.html
whilst I notice on the  salts spring catalogue they do not differentiate between them https://www.saltspringseeds.com/collections/fava-or-broad-bean-seeds-vicia-faba

David

Bonjour, David. You may want to look up their Latin names, because over the world there are more names for beans than Eskimos have names for snow.
Fava bean is a "fève" in French, and that is what is placed in a galette des Rois. the latin name is Vicia Faba, and there is a variety that grows wider than most. They call it broad bean of horse bean
The lima and the butter bean are phaseolus lunatus, while the one you pointed out in the first link is called a runner bean. Runner bean grows well in cooler weather and is a phaseolus coccineus.
Common names are a pain. Remember that your corn is our wheat in the US. I'm pretty sure you can grow fava beans. This site refers to them as Broad Beans, though: https://www.gardenfocused.co.uk/vegetable/broad-beans.php
I hope this helps?

Burra Maluca wrote:I just found this too, from here.

I notice no one is mentioning lupin/lupini beans, another 'corner navel' one. Tedious prep but delicious brined, a great bar snack. Is anyone growing them?

Languages are interesting (to me at least), but very confusing too. The name of the same thing (bean in this case) can be different in different regions, even in the same language! Or even in different families or cultures in the same region (and language).
I think that was the reason why a 'dead language' was chosen to give all living things official names, which are (should be) the same everywhere, for everyone. The only problem is: botanists (and other researchers) sometimes change these names, because they found out a new fact about the species ...

John Saltveit wrote:I can't figure out what "common beans" are.

"Common beans" are a species: Phaseolus vulgaris. The latin name "vulgaris" is translated into English as "common".

I googled that Latin name and they are green beans.
John S
PDX OR

At least four species of beans are commonly eaten as "green beans [*]" in my village: Vicia faba, Phaseolus vulgaris, Phaseolus coccineus, Vigna unguiculata.

[*] Which is a misnomer, because they might be green, yellow, pink, purple, or multi-colored.

Do they really call fava beans "green beans"?  I have not ever heard anyone call them that. Not on TV, radio, internet, nor in real life. Lots of people including me have grown them, eat them, prepare them, use them in gardening, especially as a cover crop.

I don't know what the other coccineus beans are.

I think most Americans know what green beans are but they don't know what many of the others are.

If I get into a conversation with someone and I refer to "common beans", no one knows what I'm talking about.

I have not ever heard anyone ever say "common beans".

John S
PDX OR

My understanding of "green beans" is that it refers to the stage of growth they are eaten in, the immature stage, like green peppers. Often in seed catalogs they are referred to as snap beans as opposed to shelling beans. Some varieties are good in both stages, others while probably edible in both stages, taste best in one. In recent years, I grow common beans that are good in both stages, it allows me more options.

Coccineus beans are runner beans. I haven't grown them, but they are beautiful.

And Favas, while I wouldn't call them green beans, and I don't treat them like green beans, I do eat them primarily in the green stage, but many cultures eat them as a dried bean. I treat them like I would shelling peas.

In my experience, most people know very little about the food they eat.

Thank you Stacy,

I have heard many people talk about scarlet runner beans and seen the name on packages. I think I even planted them once. I haven't ever heard them called "coccineus", nor have I ever heard them called green beans.

I come from a part of the USA where more people grow green beans than say, black eyed peas, kidney beans, pinto beans or other types of beans. We don't get as much heat as some other parts of the country.  Blue Lake green beans come from Blue lake here in the Portland area. We have relatively mild summers with cool nights.

Good for green beans, bad for shelling beans, which is a term I am familiar with, but feels like a term from the 1950's.  It's a useful distinction.  "Green beans" doesn't mean beans that are green.

Kidney beans aren't called red beans, even though they are red.  Red beans are a different type of bean, as in "red beans and rice". I used to live in the South, and we ate a lot of different kinds of shelling beans and peas.

John S
PDX OR

In my world, the phrase "common bean" is used routinely (perhaps daily) to avoid confusion about what species of bean we are actually discussing. That's important to me and my collaborators, because different species of beans have different traits, and do best under different growing conditions.  

We tend to prefer the use of "snap beans" over "green beans" because it addresses only the culinary use of the pods, and doesn't say anything about species, pod color, or pod shape.

I think that is useful. I've heard of snap beans and certainly sugar snap peas, and I definitely know what they are. You hear that on TV, movies, internet, books, etc. . I just want people from different backgrounds to be able to understand what we're talking about, so connecting different names will help us all to have the same conversation. I actually like hearing new names, like "common beans", because it is an interesting window into different cultures.
John S
PDX OR

Lots of fantastic responses here but I personally wouldn't mind what type of bean I grow as long as I can grow some. I have not had any success growing any legume - they never germinate and either dry up or rot in my grow trays or mini pots.

pusang halaw wrote: I have not had any success growing any legume - they never germinate and either dry up or rot in my grow trays or mini pots.

What kind of seeds did you use? Legumes for me have always been the easyest plants to grow from seed. I can just assume that your seeds are to old or otherwise spoilt.

Philipp Mueller wrote:I can just assume that your seeds are to old or otherwise spoilt.

They must be or I just haven't figured out how to do it properly yet. I've tried Philippine Lima beans, mung beans; kidney beans and some varieties of local peas. India supplies much of the legumes all over Asia and I suspect most imported beans I buy here in Manila have been irradiated or chemically treated not to germinate. Also, I still have to try sprouting them in water before planting but I'm afraid they might persih in the heat and humidity.

pusang halaw wrote: I suspect most imported beans I buy here in Manila have been irradiated or chemically treated not to germinate.

This is what i would suspect, too. Are there no local farmers or markets, where you could get seeds? if you just leave them in a shallow dish submerged in water for 24h and then keep them moist, it is almost impossible to keep them from sprouting.

Philipp Mueller wrote:Are there no local farmers or markets, where you could get seeds? if you just leave them in a shallow dish submerged in water for 24h and then keep them moist, it is almost impossible to keep them from sprouting.

The main weekend farmers market in the city is a 30 minute walk from here but even the seeds I get there aren't always good. I'm sure I could source proper beans to sow if I looked hard enough but I spend too much time on what I'm currently growing and hate traveling more than 5km (Manila traffic is some of the worst on earth). I figure I'll get my hands on the 'good stuff' sooner than later - until then I'll keep trying with the stuff available nearby.

Stacy Witscher wrote:Butter beans are lima beans. I much prefer fava beans and am very lucky that they grow really well here. I find lima beans to be much starchier than favas. I use favas like others use shelling peas.

Stacy, what kind of favas do you plant?

Polly Oz wrote:I notice no one is mentioning lupin/lupini beans, another 'corner navel' one. Tedious prep but delicious brined, a great bar snack. Is anyone growing them?

I grow them. They don't do very well in my garden, but I plant them every year, and each year harvest a few more than the previous year. I even got enough to eat one year! They sure are pretty.

Cristo - I have planted the common Windsor variety and this year I planted some Aquadulce variety from Baker Creek. Both did very well, I'm harvesting right now. The ones I planted in November got very tall, 8 ft and a little taller. The later ones, only about 6 feet, but I pulled them because they wouldn't have been ready to harvest by the time I needed that space again.

I need to figure out a better cage system for them, the tomato cages aren't tall enough, and too many grow out of the cages. When they get very tall, and we have a wind storm, the stalks break and tip over, some live, some don't. But they are also in the way, and more prone to insect damage.

David Livingston wrote:Fava beans cannot be grown where I live http://www.realseeds.co.uk/runnerbeans.html

If you live in Anjou, France, then Fava beans can definitely be grown there. Plant from Mid-October through mid-November for June harvest. They shouldn't need any irrigation at your location and do well interplanted with old (tall) varieties of wheat. Most varieties are hardy to below -10 degrees C.

Bonjour David Livingstone,
have you tried growing your fava beans yet?  I would say you can grow them where you are.
Does any of your neighbours grow them?
I live in France as well but a lot more to the south.  I have grown them where I am. I sowed them in autumn.

And in english do we not call 'mangetout' snow peas?
All the best with growing beans!