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Is Solar for real? Or am I missing Something?

 
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bob golding wrote:

r john wrote:The battery problem may be solved with the latest thermal solar CHP



could you elaborate on that please?



Sorry I had posted this in the Alternate Energy section

http://www.vdg.no/index.php?articleid=12

Its similar technology to what I use on a commercial basis
 
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M Foti wrote:I've been wanting to go solar grid tied for years, never had the cash... now, someone gave me 25 commercial panels 230 watts each...



Would you consider selling some of them?
 
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Curious... people that are tying in to the grid and then selling their extra power back to the electric company- - - -   If something happens to the grid does the power company then have any control over your solar system?  wondering what the contract is like, the fine print.
 
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[quote=Justus Walker

(I use about 15 kwh a day. If I were doing a 12v system that had 3 days worth of storage and was scaled for optimum battery longevity, completely off the grid, I would need...



At my current cost of electricity ($0.07) I could buy about 49 kWh electricity per day on just the depreciation of the equipment.

So, do people who put in solar have to be ideologues?

Please tell me I've got something royally screwed up. I want to do alternative energy. So far the only thing looking good is the horse and the gasifier.

And the TOJAN horse in the whole thing is....)

 

There are many ways to amplify the effect of money within the system and the number one target you should look at is ways of getting the same utility as 15kWh/day as you use it now.

What this exercise will do is contrast what power really takes to produce in quantiy and what its really worth.

A nice experiment is to attempt logistics of packing your family car or camper and truck for a long vacation a couple hundred miles away. Now eat a big meal and get the whole family behind and push that bad daddy to ylur destination.

A less ridiculous example would be pedal pumping your water or carying it a couple hundred yards in buckets... for the national average of 100 gallons per person. Now examine your situation and reduce that to say 5-10 gallons per, While getting the same utility. Dont like pedaling or carrying? It is luxury to not have to... it costs money cant do without the hot tub? Get outmore money.

Do not think that the price you pay currently is anywhere near the real price...its not. The amount of work and material in a renewable energy system is nowhere near the amounts involved in manufacturing, maintaining and fueling a utility power station, and all the work people involved have needs, food, homes, consumption akimbo and somehow at the power bill end we get $.07/kWh... even with money thrown in to settle the RE people down (baksheesh) and clean up of ecological devastation (not even) like nuke fuel processing.

Read the O.T.A. report from 1991 "complex cleanup" and get back to me on how cheap that power is! O.T.A. office of technological assesment of the us government has been disbanded... imagine that. 500 million per year for research on toxics leaching from these facilities and the doe cannot tell us how far and how much is contaminating the environmets NEAR them.

Pretty cheap huh.

It is a rigged carney game that i refuse to play.

There is a saying, "if you gotta ask how much it costs, you cant afford it."

The truth is, most all of the people on earth including wealthy europeans and americans cannot actually afford to have electricity natural gas, cars or things like stainless steel pots and pans, not in the real world where the game isnt rigged to make it look cheaper to live by just paying a bill, not if all costs are considered.

So, many systems for renewable energy conversion and storage are designed around a prior evaluation and plan to reduce consumption, organize loads and otherwise improve usage habits starting with selecting proper efficiencies in loads and appliances for good economics.

I will repeat that in many cases utility and convienience can be preserved while consuming less.

We use about 1.2kWh per day or less than 38KWh per month off grid without a generator and its associated costs and environmental impact which costs dearly.
So everyone has different situations.

A guy who owns plantations in india relayed a saying from his home.
"You dont own a car, a car owns you." It is profoundly accurate, even if you enjoy a carefree money situation, you are just letting your car own several other people. I wonder what the real price for a car alternator is...$1000? $5000, i mean a pound of good chocolate or gallon of purified water is how much? Even if the chocolate or water is done onsite with manual labor and primitive tech, it has extreme value. Have you tried building an alternator from rocks? Every alternator sits atop a mountain chain of past expenditures to get to that manufacturing point. Its the same with utility power and their alternators are bigger.

I did a system estimate for a guy i worked for, an actual millionaire, never has to worry about where money is gonna come from again. He said $125,000 was too expensive, would take 25 years to recoup and showed me his cost for power over a year (15 years ago) and i was demoralized too.

But then he said the damnest thing that has stuck with me and i use it with clients all the time.

I said, 'yeah, i didnt imagine it could cost that much to cover your bill'
He says, dryly..." i have more light bulbs than you do"

Ill never forget that addage!

 
frank li
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diana todd wrote:Curious... people that are tying in to the grid and then selling their extra power back to the electric company- - - -   If something happens to the grid does the power company then have any control over your solar system?  wondering what the contract is like, the fine print.



Always read the fine print, it should be downloadable from your utility.

But, no the system is yours. The utility connection is theirs.
if your equipment has storage and something happens to the grid you will still be up and running! With good equipment, you wouldnt even realize when it happened. How cool is that?!
 
Creighton Samuels
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I don't know if I mentioned it here, but I'm working on a rather small system, just to run my refrigerator.

http://solar-trap.com/
 
frank li
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