Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
permaculture forums growies critters building homesteading energy monies kitchen purity ungarbage community wilderness fiber arts art permaculture artisans regional education skip experiences global resources cider press projects digital market permies.com private forums all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
master stewards:
  • Anne Miller
  • Nicole Alderman
  • r ranson
  • Pearl Sutton
  • Mike Haasl
  • paul wheaton
stewards:
  • Joylynn Hardesty
  • Dave Burton
  • Joseph Lofthouse
master gardeners:
  • jordan barton
  • Greg Martin
gardeners:
  • Carla Burke
  • Ash Jackson
  • Kate Downham

Hand sanitizer comedy

 
gardener
Posts: 1174
Location: Denver, 6a / BSk, rental house dweller, going back to Wheaton Labs soon
706
hugelkultur kids forest garden trees books wofati cooking bike rocket stoves
 
Posts: 73
Location: pietermaritzburg, South Africa
18
forest garden chicken bee
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Report post to moderator
i think its an exelent idear to carry your own sanitizer so you dont have to use the crap they provide in stores i opt for a streight 80% ethanol that way if the muggles realy get on your nerves you can take a shot to calm them. got to sanatize that throught too lol
 
pollinator
Posts: 146
Location: Wisconsin, Zone 4b
39
kids books homestead
  • Likes 8 Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Report post to moderator
What bothers me the most about this incident you had, Paul, is that unless I missed it neither the nurse nor the doctor asked why you didn't want to use the sanitizer. Your doctor should be a partner in health, not a dictator. They should have asked if you had a reason. Sounds like instead they wrote you off as just someone being difficult because they could be difficult, which is a stupid way to interact with people. In addition to losing a patient, they also lost the chance to get to know a really interesting person who has knowledge and ideas that they haven't come across before. People can be so judgy!

I know masks have been mentioned. I wear them when I'm out of the house (not in the yard or to the mailbox, but in public). I wear them because I don't know who is immuno-compromised and can't wear a mask but has no one else to do their grocery shopping for them so they are forced to go out in public where the germs are. I wear them because I care about people in general. It's not comfortable, but it's a small thing I can do to help protect others. This pandemic is not going away any time soon. And if more people would take it seriously, we could maybe get it over with a tiny bit sooner. As it is, we're probably looking at another year at least.

By the way, to whoever asked about Fauci mentioning immune-building. Yes, he mentioned taking vitamins in an interview. Vitamin D in particular, and I believe vitamin C as well. I believe he also covered exercise and not stuffing yourself full of junk food, but I could be wrong about that being in that particular interview.
 
pollinator
Posts: 589
Location: Canadian Prairies - Zone 3b
140
  • Likes 6
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Report post to moderator
Well, each to his own, I guess.

I certainly expect my doctor to wash his/her hands well after performing intimate exams on a couple of dozen strangers who are not well. So, sauce for the goose ...
 
Posts: 65
Location: Northwest
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Report post to moderator
I distracted the receptionist and then pretented to use the chemical infectant.

I put castor oil on weird bumps obsessively.

Great story!
 
Posts: 58
7
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Report post to moderator
I work in a refrigerated section of a grocery and struggle with breathing  in  cold weather if running. Working in refrigeration occasionally troubles me, but not regularly. Wearing a mask more than 40 hours per week, seems to be helping my breathing, even when stressed (hurriedly filling items in the cold, or customers reaching over my head)! People seem to not understand how far six feet really is, nor 3 feet, nor that giving personal space is a sign of respect. Being very sensitive to chemical smells, etc. I want to start coughing when they reach overhead, but am often caught off guard. I did succeed in backing into one guy. My hands get incredibly dry due to opening boxes, touching damp product regularly, washing hands and drying with paper towel. Lotion makes my hands itchy, glycerin also. Plain yogurt seems like a good lotion substitute. I am going to bring a small jar to work and give it a lotion label. At the dentist office, I was given a personal sized sanitizer bottle and asked to use it (had their name  on it) and complied, but they did not mention it when I asked about their protocol. Just mention you would prefer to wash your hands and can bring your own xyz soap, etc upon setting an appointment. That may improve things for both parties, or save you a trip. I know that some people feel they are doing great things to save electricity when they close one of my cooler doors when I am carrying a more than handful from one side of the aisle to another and an elderly lady  tried to close me into the frig cause she did not see me. I got my chance to use my which use more energy question one day...my open door for 10 seconds...or speeding regularly...or 'warming up the car'...or running the car to have the air-conditioner on?  I saw the light bulb go on moment...and he walked away.
 
pollinator
Posts: 149
Location: Missouri Ozarks
20
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Report post to moderator
One thing often left out of the discussions about things like hand sanitizer, masks, lockdowns etc. is, what exactly is the goal here? The goalposts have been shifted repeatedly, from "flatten the curve" so as not to verwhelm hospitals (which I won't argue with at all) to ongoing security theater that in my opinion has been causing more harm than good for months now. No country has eliminated the virus. New Zealand thought they did but then ended up having more cases, and some small Pacific island countries shut down their borders before they had it in the first place. So, it's now a fact of life that isn't going away. Luckily, there's still enough diversity in the world that different countries (and states in the US) have done different things and we can see the different outcomes. I've been paying attention to Sweden since the beginning, they didn't lock down, although they did ban large gatherings and shut down Universities for a bit. The mainstream media kept predicting doom for Sweden back in the spring, but I've been thinking the whole time they would end up better off in the end. Masks were never widespread there. This is a good summary of the current situation in Sweden. They appear to have mostly gotten over it, cases are very low and deaths are almost zero now even as many countries that have locked down are facing more waves. The US has passed Sweden in deaths per population, and several countries that locked down such as Italy, UK, and Spain have had higher death tolls per population from early on. The overall impact of COVID in any given place is probably going to be similar whatever measures are taken, the difference being the duration of time it's going around. The exception is if hospitals are overrun, but Sweden never had theirs overrun, and they have the advantage of having much less of the indirect effects, the effects on mental health, small businesses, people with other health conditions that aren't dealing with them out of fear of COVID, etc. Not to mention still living in a freer society. A case could also be made that getting it over with quicker as the Swedes did also helps those who feel like they need to be especially cautious as well, they could rigorously isolate themselves for the worst of it and be able to come out of quarantine sooner when the risk has plummeted.

I predict that in a few years, once the dust has settled, the reaction much of the world has had to COVID will be remembered as akin to burning a house down in order to kill a snake that's inside.
 
Richard Kastanie
pollinator
Posts: 149
Location: Missouri Ozarks
20
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Report post to moderator
I meant to address more the original topic of the post, the hand sanitizer situation, but it's really just a microcosm of the mindset of the whole medical system. Since I'm more conflict averse than you, I'd personally have just used the sanitizer, it's a small enough matter to me that I would have just done it to keep the peace, and just avoid situations like that as much as I can, but I'm glad to hear in general from those who aren't going along with everything. The events of this year have brought to a head conflicts that have been simmering for some time. While the medical system does have some good things to offer and people with real skills, the arrogance that permeates so much of it is astounding when compared to so much else in life. Although there are individual doctors that buck the trend, by and large what i see coming out of the medical establishment is dis-empowerment. A crisis like COVID could be used as a chance for empowerment, a reason for people to listen to their body and work to improve their overall state of health, as well as become less dependent on the industrial system. Indeed, many people have done just that, as increased sales of seeds, local foods, and herbal products has shown, but the media won't touch that at all. Instead, all we're told is to be passive, to do as we're told and hope "they" come up with a magic bullet. Vitamin D levels are are a huge factor in COVID outcomes which means people shutting themselves indoors out of fear or because of being forced to by the lockdowns will likely worsen the outcome if they get the virus.
 
Molly Kay
pollinator
Posts: 146
Location: Wisconsin, Zone 4b
39
kids books homestead
  • Likes 4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Report post to moderator

Richard Kastanie wrote:I've been paying attention to Sweden since the beginning, they didn't lock down, although they did ban large gatherings and shut down Universities for a bit...



I have as well. Sweden has an advantage on this issue: a population who are all or mostly willing to follow the recommendations. There hasn't been a lot of news about large gatherings without social distancing in Stockholm turning into super-spreader events. There haven't been protests about it. They just do what is recommended and get on with things, they trusted the professionals and their government. That's why they were able to avoid a total shutdown, and keep their healthcare system from getting overwhelmed. Maybe Sweden's government is more trustworthy than ours. Maybe the smaller population makes a difference. Maybe it's not an election year for them. Whatever the reason, the Swedes managed to pull together, and it's helped their entire country deal with this pandemic better than most countries have.
 
pollinator
Posts: 375
Location: Vancouver Island, BC, Canada
157
dog
  • Likes 5
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Report post to moderator
Many like to tout Sweden as the Covid poster child...but the death toll there was horrific in comparison to other countries, especially when compared to their neighbors and other "first world" countries.

Their goal of "herd immunity" failed, despite the death toll, with approximately 15% showing immunity. Further, science is now showing immunity seems to be reserved for the MOST sick; as in others it is appearing to be short lived at about 4 months.

To me this suggests that the simplest solution to this virus is lost to us I if contraction does not confer significant immunity. It also says to me this will be with us for a long time, perhaps permanently, and will require long term management to prevent outbreaks that overwhelm heath care personnel and facilities.

I think the goal posts need to be changed, for the world, in general, from cure/vaccine to treatment and symptom minimization and/or preventing symptom escalation.

To that end, I suspect mask wearing may become ubiquitous - and by extension, sanitizer usage will become "the norm" in public places, such as businesses and facilities.

Carrying ones "own" version will likely have to also become the norm - where sinks or washing stations are not viable, and even then, one's own soap.

gift
 
Clean With Cleaners You Can Eat by Raven Ranson
will be released to subscribers in: soon!
    Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic