Podcast 090: Geoff Lawton Part 2

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Summary

Paul Wheaton continues his conversation with Geoff Lawton. (The first part of the conversation is discussed here). Geoff talks about the importance of cooperation rather than territorialism–we need to promote anybody we can, and offer education wherever possible. It is the opposite of how you might normally think about business. We want to maintain networks and exchanges of information, and give away more than we take. Geoff talks about layers of community (generations, cultures) we need to work in, like layers in a food forest. You find a niche and fill it. Paul mentions edge. Geoff talks about intention in permaculture. He then goes into intentional diversity, saying, “We all have a lot to share with each other.” Listener questions asked include: What are essential tools in the field for a practicing permie? What are the 3 or 4 most essential practical skills for a practicing permie? Can you talk about evaporation and rainfall in relation to chop and drop? What are your experiences with hugelkultur What does he think of Sepp Holzer? Plan on writing any books/making more dvds? Geoff says he would like to know what people want to learn about. He and Paul talk about greening the desert in Jordan. Paul talks about Willie Smits in Borneo. Geoff talks about Allan Savory. Geoff talks about doing permaculture where there is 7 mm (1/4 inch) of rain per year in Chile. Geoff talks about international permaculture, big ag changing, and “biological agriculture.”

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Geoff talking about "white privilege occupation" made a fool of himself I think. What has that anything to do? is there any place in which one can just be without having to be listening to all that PC nonsense nowadays? White privilledge? plan, work hard, grow your garden and sell your produce, that's it, I don't feel any more privilege than any other man that can and will do the same, and I'm not feeling inclined to apologize for my garden to anyone, so, really, don't go that way, not in the permaculture family at least, please, thank you.

gordo kury wrote:Geoff talking about "white privilege occupation" made a fool of himself I think. What has that anything to do? is there any place in which one can just be without having to be listening to all that PC nonsense nowadays? White privilledge? plan, work hard, grow your garden and sell your produce, that's it, I don't feel any more privilege than any other man that can and will do the same, and I'm not feeling inclined to apologize for my garden to anyone, so, really, don't go that way, not in the permaculture family at least, please, thank you.

Sorry I didn't hear it that way. He was just making a statement that there are certain ethnic niches where Pc still hasn't taken route yet.

you might be right
and I hope you are

I'm more in favor of a meritocracy, skinn collor doesn't really matter at all to the plants, even to eggplants or cantelopes
it has nothing at all to do with regeneration of the land, it really doesn't.
Intelligent people of any race will and do learn from other intelligent people regardless the collor of their skinn. I'm more or less white and I wouldn't care the less if my teahcer is black (or whatever other collor), if he is a good teacher I would be happy to learn from him, and I'm sure is the same the other way around

When I hear Geoff talk about permaculture, he makes it sound so easy and I wonder if I'm only just beginning to understand what it really is.  And when I listen to Paul, he makes it sound like it's easy for him but that's because he has the energy of 45 people.  

It sounds like in Autralia in the "third world" people are willing to listen and see the value in permaculture, and Geoff has trouble keeping up with the demand for permaculture teaching and design and implementation.  

I also am amazed at the idea of spending 10,000 hours mastering compost.  I don't think that's what I am called to do, but it would be great if someone in the neighborhood did that and handed a bit of supercompost out to every neighbor.  I love our local compost companies and salute them for what they are doing, but I doubt very much it's aspiring to that level of mastery.

Didn't really get to finish my thought earlier, the salient thing for me is just how different the different perspectives on permaculture can be.  I learn so much from each, and of course they have different focuses of climate, but I'd love to have more of a sense of Geoff-Lawton easy street-ness up here in the cool climate permaculture and in America.  What Geoff said in another podcast about an American fame complex or something rings true, and just general individualism that we're conditioned to.  I wish we had better tools for establishing effective and nourishing cooperation.  I think drL is one open source tool; and the audio/voice social networking app "clubhouse" is another tool that facilitates better hearing of one another's viewpoints, rather than just debating and squabbling.

I also wish I could just hang out with a bunch of Australian permaculturists for a bit of time each week to alter my perspective, or a bunch of people from any other country, and I've never been good at learning foreign languages.  Canada seems to be more similar to America from what I hear, but I don't know the permaculture scene there very well.

Maybe the new business "Food Forest Abundance" will be a game-changer, it's started by a very successful businessman who retired young.  I don't know their work very intimately, but they seem to have a very big ambition for getting food forests in every yard.

Joshua Myrvaagnes wrote:

I also wish I could just hang out with a bunch of Australian permaculturists for a bit of time each week to alter my perspective, or a bunch of people from any other country, and I've never been good at learning foreign languages.  Canada seems to be more similar to America from what I hear, but I don't know the permaculture scene there very well.

Currently, my favorite podcast is Making Permaculture Stronger Which is Australian-based. I think you will like it as it is about examining the ideas of permaculture and examining our cultural constructs that sometimes get in the way of our living the ideas of permacultures.

I'm an American but have lived the last 24 years (half my life!) in southern Mexico. It's taken a really long time for me to fully understand the traditional collectivist culture around me that is sadly being eroded by "the American dream" just like soil erosion it's a process that sometimes is just a tiny imperviable trickle, but then there are occasional events that advance the process in a huge jump.

I'm also a foreign language teacher, and I want to let you know that humans are hardwired to learn language, 1 or many. But it takes TIME, children start speaking after a year or two, but don't master the language until around 4 or 5, and continue to learn it throughout their formative years. But they aren't getting an hour-long lesson a day, they are learning the language all their waking hours. If you want to learn a foreign language as an adult you need to dedicate a minimum of 12 hours a week to it,  preferably more, the more the better. Most adults frankly don't have the time, energy or motivation to do so and that's why they struggle to learn.