Lexus rear brake job. Please help me. [Solved]

Our brakes started making noise 2 weeks ago. How do I find out if I only need new brake pads, or if I need the rotors as well?

The car: 2001 LEXUS GS300 4 door


Would ya'll watch this and let me know if there's something else I should know about?

I have a very non-scientific way of dealing with checking rotors. Unless they are beat up or obviously warped/grooved, I will generally use two changes worth of brakepads before I swap my rotors.

If your brakes/steering wheel vibrates while you brake or you hear screeching.... I'd change the rotors. They are 'cheap' and vital so I lean towards changing them with a little life left on the old ones instead of trying to go get my whole dollars worth out of them.

Here are print instructions with most of the pictures still available.  https://www.clublexus.com/how-tos/a/lexus-is-how-to-change-brake-disc-362562#:~:text=If%20you%20hear%20a%20grinding,probably%20time%20for%20new%20rotors

And what l was calling rotors might now be called a brake disc?

The current noise is a soft grinding noise. No screeching yet.

The odometer says 214,000 miles.

Here's a link to buy brake pads. https://www.lexuspartsnow.com/parts/lexus-pad-kit-disc-brake-rear~04466-30161.html?vin=&make=Lexus&model=GS300&year=2001&submodel=&extra1=&extra2=&filter=()

Here's my stupid question of the day... this is for only one side correct? I would need two of these? There are brakes on each side of the car?

Apparently, I will continue to do work on cars. So I will need jack stands. My Lexus may weigh 3500 pounds. Here's an Amazon link to a set of truck floor Jack's.

https://www.amazon.com/Torin-Big-Steel-Jack-Stands/dp/B002E1AYKY/ref=mp_s_a_1_4?crid=2A9NG6ICI5G7K&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.uqp2LKf_OyVZ4abMac8RgrDqxPQANlKES-phsAnFlI9m-_tNs183G-G75b199cblVzTW-3CSK5_PB_E4F1eXV9yt6NlWj3fNulsPT45jScGiP7PLLnf6r-_x3nr3mMzHnxzfKrkeLJYAjsWiW_tX_Pf93ISMV7m5Nx5NNcHBDktXqPxXr0aOhZwTVWtiYzL4gbFWp27N8tnE2xp7v2ewrg.AcDGnVlFdaCa0u0T9nE33hzShYjkQM_kynGWJpxBA_o&dib_tag=se&keywords=jack+stands+for+trucks&qid=1730418098&sprefix=Jack+srand%2Caps%2C257&sr=8-4

It will raise a vehicle from 16" to 23 1/2". Is there anything wrong with the higher measurement? Any safety issues? Is it harder to get the jack stands under the car safely? In a brief search it looks like car Jack's range from about 11 to 16 inch lift height.

EDITED TO CORRECT LINK

Joylynn Hardesty wrote:Here's a link to buy brake pads. https://www.lexuspartsnow.com/parts/lexus-pad-kit-disc-brake-rear~04466-30161.html?vin=&make=Lexus&model=GS300&year=2001&submodel=&extra1=&extra2=&filter=()

Here's my stupid question of the day... this is for only one side correct? I would need two of these? There are brakes on each side of the car?

Correct, it is one set of brakes for a rear wheel. You will need two sets to replace both rear wheels.

If you don't know the last time the brakes were done, I would lean towards doing both the brakes and rotors (brake disk). The two words are interchangeable I believe.

Joylynn Hardesty wrote:Apparently, I will continue to do work on cars. So I will need jack stands. My Lexus may weigh 3500 pounds. Here's an Amazon link to a set of truck floor Jack's.

https://www.lexuspartsnow.com/parts/lexus-pad-kit-disc-brake-rear~04466-30161.html?vin=&make=Lexus&model=GS300&year=2001&submodel=&extra1=&extra2=&filter=()

It will raise a vehicle from 16" to 23 1/2". Is there anything wrong with the higher measurement? Any safety issues? Is it harder to get the jack stands under the car safely? In a brief search it looks like car Jack's range from about 11 to 16 inch lift height.

Your link is for brake parts but that is okay! Raising your car higher puts more weight on the opposite side of the car and more force on your jack. I have one foot sections of rough cut lumber (4x4) that I use as wheel chocks any time I work on my car. I would highly recommend to anyone that works on cars to not only use a jack; jack stands can be life savers and I encourage their use. My personal favorite style of jacks are 'low boy' so they can fit under even small gaps and have a decent lifting height.

The grinding could also just be the wear indicators on the brake pads saying they are due for a change if you have no other symptoms.

Jack stands have been vetoed. Ramps are in my future. For this job I guess I'm using cinder blocks.

I corrected the jackstand link above, here it is again, cause I'd still like to know about the safety question.

https://www.lexuspartsnow.com/parts/lexus-pad-kit-disc-brake-rear~04466-30161.html?vin=&make=Lexus&model=GS300&year=2001&submodel=&extra1=&extra2=&filter=()

I would use RockAuto to purchase. I can walk you through it if needed. the parts are fractions of the price you'll pay at the dealership and most online stores. They are reputable as well, I use them and my mechanic is the one who recommended them.

Screeching/grinding when braking can be a number of things. it could be worn out break pads, incorrectly installed break pads or it could be worn rotors as well.

How to diagnose the noise:
https://youtu.be/jA3xgegNVDg?si=Ps5jBcEysJfqhnlc

You do have to pay for shipping though. Pricing of the brake pads at the site you listed is $65, for RockAuto (I use them for all repairs I do when they have parts available), the price goes from $7 to $65 with the $65 ones being performance brake pads for racing.

Parts are sorted by their price and you can look at different manufacturers. The Economy category is on the cheaper side, but less performant, etc for Daily Driver, Heavy Duty, and Premium. Performance is generally for racing level.
If you stick to parts in the Daily Driver the parts are of a good quality. You can also see which ones are most commonly purchased by someone by the heart next to them.

I'd go with one of these within Daily Driver category:
POWER STOP KOE1149 Ceramic Brake Pad and Rotor Kit
https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=4659504&cc=1373835&pt=13824

POWER STOP 17771 Z17 Evolution Clean Ride Ceramic with Hardware
https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=4292709&cc=1373835&pt=1684

Rock Auto brake pads
https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/lexus,2001,gs300,3.0l+l6,1373835,brake+&+wheel+hub,brake+pad,1684

if you want to get the brake pads and rotors together:
https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/lexus,2001,gs300,3.0l+l6,1373835,brake+&+wheel+hub,rotor+&+brake+pad+kit,13824

Joylynn Hardesty wrote:I corrected the jackstand link above, here it is again, cause I'd still like to know about the safety question.

https://www.lexuspartsnow.com/parts/lexus-pad-kit-disc-brake-rear~04466-30161.html?vin=&make=Lexus&model=GS300&year=2001&submodel=&extra1=&extra2=&filter=()

To clarify what some others have said, jack stands are very safe to use. Using only the jack (the tool to lift the car) is unsafe due to the possibility of the jack rolling while working on the car.
After lifting the car it's important to put something that secures it under the frame such as a jack stand with a weight capacity that fits the car.

Harbor Freight has pretty decent quality and pricing for jacks and jack stands as well.

Here's a video of explaining how to jack up a car safely and how to use jack stands.


The Big Red jack stand brand is not bad. See attached (lower number is better score). The load/weight capacity is correct as well. 3 tons will hold ~6600lbs, your lexus is about 3700lbs and jacks generally are not holding the full weight/load of the car. They generally are holding one corner so about 1/4th to 1/2 the weight. What you selected is a bit overkill, but overkill is not bad. If you select one for 2 tons (4000lbs) it could hold the whole car.

Video comparison



For the jacks, screenshot attached:
https://youtu.be/g5_64r2PR7A?si=Q4GkeIZvCI4G7S-e

I think you will be delighted to find how easy  disk brakes  are, to work on.
Im curious how you narrowed  it down to rear brakes.
In my limited experience, front brakes wear faster than rear brakes unless there is a sticky caliper.

Ramps do beat jack stands but obviously not for wheel and suspension work.
I prefer to have more than one jack, with  2x4s off cuts for cribbing.
With two jacks and some cribbing, you can lift the vehicle higher than the limits of a single jack.
Chocking your wheels will be extremely important since you can't keep the e-brake engaged while working on brakes.
Stay safe and hopefully enjoy yourself.

William wrote:I'm curious how you narrowed  it down to rear brakes.  

Because that's where the sound is coming from. It is very clearly from behind.

Ah, if it's that obvious, all the more reason to suspect a sticking caliper.

alex caldwell wrote:How to diagnose the noise:
https://youtu.be/jA3xgegNVDg?si=Ps5jBcEysJfqhnlc

The diagnosing the noise covers sticking caliper vs metal on metal and potential causes.

With disk breaks it's usually pretty easy to diagnose after pulling the wheel off. You can check brake pad thickness, check for signs of wear on the rotor (groves gouged into the rotor, etc), test the caliper's ability to compress with pliers, etc.

Just make sure to tighten the rim to spec after pulling the wheel off. Video of repair you post covers torque spec, 76 foot lbs. You'll need a torque wrench to tighten lug nuts to specifications.

To William's point, if the wear looks uneven then you due diligence would be figuring out why.

In the video you posted at the first post at the 9 minutes 30 seconds mark you can see him depressing the brake caliper piston.
https://youtu.be/2tNlo7SDlxU?t=570

See below link for diagnosing whether the caliper piston is bad in more detail:
https://www.autozone.com/diy/brakes/bad-brake-caliper-symptoms

You cannot watch too many youtube videos on this. Take note of the tools being used, and get the ones you need before starting. If you have a tablet, it can really help to have a video cued up while you are working on the car.

Harbor freight is having a 15% off sale on any single item this weekend for their shopping club members. That is an excellent time to pick up one of their Daytona  floor jacks. A floor jack is much easier to use than the type of jack you have in your trunk or a pioneer jack. The floor jacks are heavy, so if you are not strong, arrange some help getting it out of your car.

Jack and jack stands are necessary for this work.  You'll want to loosen the lug nuts on the tire before jacking it up. If you have one, any good impact driver with a socket that fits your lug nuts will save your muscle power.

Brake parts cleaner will also come in really handy, along with a supply of clean rags. HF also sells magnetic parts trays. Those can be a life saver.

Start early in the morning, on a day when your local auto-parts store is open.
Use your phone to take pictures of everything before you mess with it, so you have a visual guide to re-assembly.

Be aware that most auto-parts do not come with assembly instructions.

You can do this.
Safety first.

Further note- you can get torque limiting extensions for your impact driver, which means that if you get one that stops tightening the socket at 75 pounds, you can forego the torque wrench. Those are often puzzling to the novice.

Your local auto-parts store may have a rental torque wrench  for your use, and is often a good source for info.

Lots of good advice from everybody.

This is likely the single most helpful:
Quote:
"Start early in the morning, on a day when your local auto-parts store is open.
Use your phone to take pictures of everything before you mess with it, so you have a visual guide to re-assembly."

I've had a floor jack that has lived in the trunk of every car I've owned since the early 90's. So I'm covered there. Those scissor Jack's just don't look like they're up to the job. Eh. Much prefer a beefier product if I expect it to NOT FALL ON ME. Ya know?

I have a torque wrench from work I did on a previous car. No impact driver. Sigh. Want one.

See rear rotors below. Which one do you think is the problem? Any doubts?

I won't be ordering anything yet, but one more question... At this link provided by Alex...
https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=4659504&cc=1373835&pt=13824

It appears to me that this kit includes all brake pads and the rotors necessary to replace both rear brakes. Am I correct?

Any calipers or boots or pins would of course be additional.

Feels a bit like an eye doctor's appointment, 1or 2?
'About the same, maybe 2?'

Id say two looks like the culprit, but 1 might be due for a change too.

Joylynn Hardesty wrote:I won't be ordering anything yet, but one more question... At this link provided by Alex...
https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=4659504&cc=1373835&pt=13824

It appears to me that this kit includes all brake pads and the rotors necessary to replace both rear brakes. Am I correct?

Any calipers or boots or pins would of course be additional.

For that specific linked kit it includes:
2 Rotors
4 brake pads
2 brake pad retaining clips & holders
1 pouch of brake silicon lubricant

It will cover both rear brakes, yes. If the piston is bad, it does not include the piston. It would not include the boot that the brake line runs into that the brake pads slot into, or the pins if those components are rusted out. Usually they are fine with a bit of cleaning from a de-ruster + brake vleaner and wire brush. Then greased as shown in the video.

Joylynn,

I always enjoy your intrepid attitude taking on these projects.  The 2nd picture in your last post it appears the rotors are scoring or gouging in towards the hub.  The first picture does not look bad.  However remember that the pad clamp down on both sides of the rotors so there are four contact surface, 2 per wheel; so we are only seeing two in the pictures.  Hard to be sure there is not further damage unseen.

In the old days the rotors (or disks) would be turned (cut) to a smooth surface for a small fee.  the cost, hassle, and liability to workers has made that a rare practice in auto parts houses.  Now they just sell you new rotors.  Rotors "should be" smooth flat surfaces for the brake pads to be most effective.  In a pinch I have thrown new pads on old rotors, but the cost (doing it yourself) is not worth doing the job a second time or prematurely.  Also brakes are important.  Why take chances.

Someone mentioned sticking calipers.  A very good point.  make sure the calipers are free to move as designed.  However, don't step on the brakes with the caliper off the rotor.  You might end up needing new parts as the pistons extend too far without resistance.  If you have not seen it done yet, use a c clamp or other clamp on the inside/inboard pad to press it steady and gently back into the caliper.  Then reattach the caliper over the rotor and have someone gently apply the brakes.  You should see the pads come together on either side of the rotor smoothly and evenly.  Then you will know they are not sticking.

Brakes are super simple to do once you get the hang of the procedures, except for this one little issue.  Shims and clips.  When you remove your pads from the calipers a lot of dust, road debris and possibly some metal "wafers" will fall out.  Save these.  remember/mark where they came from the best you can.  Same with 'clips'  These parts are there to help install the new pads into the calipers and keep them in place and in the appropriate plane.  It is often overlooked.  If they don't go back in the same, your pads may produce noise on the road.  If you can't, or are not sure, it is not a safety issue per se.  Your brakes will still work.  They just may wear more quickly or make noise.  But if you can get them back in the way they were, you will be happier.

Wear tabs were mentioned earlier.  I just wanted to make clear the pads have metal tabs on the ends that stick out towards the rotors.  As the pad material wears down, the tabs will start making contact with the rotors.  This is designed to give you an audible que the pads are worn and will need to be replaced.  The metal is softer than the rotor material, so they don't result in the scoring seen on rotors.  It just sounds bad and may make one think their pads are completely worn.  

Remember this with ramps as opposed to jack stands, how do you lift the tire off the ramp to remove the wheel?  ramps are good for giving oneself a bit more room under the car for repairs like oil changes.  They don't help if you have to pull a tire that is on the ramp.    Get good jackstands and use them every time, all the time.  don't rely on a jack.  A jack is a hydraulic lift.  That lift relies on little rubber o-rings to allow the fluid pressure to lift an object.  If you are under a car and the rubber oring fails, the full weight of the vehicle is coming down on you.  Don't bet your life on a 5 cent o-ring.

Have a good weekend, and take the advise "start early.  go slow.  document everything."

Also just went through this thread again and notice something missing.  Bleeding brakes.

What do you know about bleeding brakes?  After you work on your brakes you will need to get any air in the hydraulic lines out or you will have spongy brakes.  It is an easy procedure but requires a helper to press and release the brake pedal while the other to open and close the brake line 'valve'.  

Keys to remember:  Reduce the chance of air entering into the lines.  Keep the reservoir topped off at the master cylinder.  Don't let he brake calipers hang from the brake lines when you remove the rotors.  Use a coat hanger, wire, or rope tied off to the frame to support the caliper after removing from the rotor.  Start bleeding the wheels farthest (longest brake line) from the master cylinder.  when you step on the brake pedal an air bubble has the farthest to go in the longest line.  then work the opposite side of the car and work your way around to the wheel nearest the master cylinder.  It is messy work with your hands right next to the bleeder.  wear disposable gloves.  Open and close the bleeder quickly.  Make sure your helper does not release the brake pedal until you the bleeder is tight and you say so.  Otherwise the system works like a vacuum and suck more air into the line.  

I pretty much agree with everything everyone posted here, so my only potential contributions are below.
I don't intend to throw too much info and cause analysis paralysis, and Safety first, please!

Car Care Nut, Toyota/Lexus/Scion master technician and now an independent shop owner, may be worth watching for any tips that are unique to that manufacturer.

General maintenance series - brakes


Brake job - Part 1: Disassembly


Brake job - Part 2: Pad prep
[/youtube]

Brake job - Part 3: Installation


Brake fluid


Information that could be helpful IF you decide to purchase OEM parts.
-Some Lexus parts *may* be directly interchangeable with Toyota parts, but at a lower price point.
-Some dealers *may* offer as competitive prices as Lexuspartsdeal/Toyotapartsdeal AND offer free shipping, so it may be worth shopping around.
*To be clear, I am certainly not against aftermarket parts; in fact, I use plenty on our vehicles depending on the application.

The big problem is the left rear rotor. So, if a caliper is a problem, as William suggested, what do I need to fix that? Just the rubber repair kit (o rings), piston, or what? Thoughts?

Link to rock auto's caliper part list.

The Lexus 2001 GS300 has rear parking brakes within the center of the rotor. The ES is the same as a Camry as far as parts, the GS is different. Is your noise is from a caliper or the parking brake?  A rotor on a GS300 new measures .47 inches you should replace if the thickness is .413 or less. If you can afford it I would replace the entire caliper rather than attempt to rebuild it with a kit. The pistons wear and after that many miles I personally would do an entire caliper or suggest that to a customer. If it is just a caliper replacement and pads you shouldn't have to fiddle with the parking brakes. If you need to replace the rotor you will have to remove and replace the parking brakes.  The likelihood that the parking brake shoes need to replaced if they have just had normal use is low. However, to throw you under the bus they might be what is causing the noise.

Jack the car up and take the offending tire off. With head and feet out from under the car and spin the rotor. See what you hear and maybe identify the bad parts. Jackstands or cribbing when you work on it, just a jack is very dangerous.

Hmmm... The parking brake encompasses the circumference of the rotor, right? The problem with the left rotor that I can see without taking everything apart is where the outside brake pad is. This leads me to believe the problem is the brake pad.

William suggested that the caliper may be a problem, maybe sticking? What all can be wrong with a caliper? I'd like to have what I may on hand, in case I need it.

The caliper has a piston that pushes the pad against the rotor. As William suggested a caliper piston sometimes gets cocked and sticks. This can be from wear on the piston, wear in the piston bore, or the rotor being so thin the piston has gone beyond the normal travel range limit. A rule of thumb is that the thickness of the material on the pad is usually about 1/4-5/16 thick, this is just the friction material, not the metal backing plate. it's hard to see with everything together. If you look at your first picture the outer rim is the normal braking surface that is pinched by the caliper. It looks like a Panama hat the parking brake on the Lexus is inside that Panama hat where the head would go. Not all rear disc brakes use this type of parking brake but the GS300 does. First thing is to jack that baby up remove the left rear wheel and spin the rotor. It might be very obvious if as William has suggested the caliper is sticking. If the rotor spins freely with the wheel off far easier to isolate where the noise is coming from. Lexus good Saab bad.

Damn. Had the tire off earlier today. And we don't mention the bad word around here anymore.  Don't make me saab. (Reaches for kleenex box.)

There is some great advice on this thread!

I've never bled brakes unless I've opened up the system, like when replacing or rebuilding a caliper, not when replacing rotors or pads.
That said, Im just someone who learned a little about cars out of necessity, and part of that has included doing things the wrong way until I knew better.

Something I didn't see mentioned, is the importance of where you support the vehicle.
Most vehicles have specific points on their undersides where the scissor jack is supposed to go.
When you are putting a vehicle in a jack stand, you will need to carefully choose spots on the frame to rest on the heads of the jack stands.

William Bronson wrote:There is some great advice on this thread!

I've never bled brakes unless I've opened up the system, like when replacing or rebuilding a caliper, not when replacing rotors or pads.
That said, Im just someone who learned a little about cars out of necessity, and part of that has included doing things the wrong way until I knew better.

Something I didn't see mentioned, is the importance of where you support the vehicle.
Most vehicles have specific points on their undersides where the scissor jack is supposed to go.
When you are putting a vehicle in a jack stand, you will need to carefully choose spots on the frame to rest on the heads of the jack stands.

It's demonstrated in this video I posted earlier:


Usually there's a notch on the bottom of the frame in the car.

At 215k miles, you might as well replace the calipers too while you're bothering with this effort.  You should be able to buy "fully loaded" calipers which already have the new pads in there which will save you a bunch of labor and increase the quality of the finished product considerably (if you don't know what you're doing when replacing the pads).  Fully loaded calipers + rotors and you're done.

If you do that, THEN you'll need to bleed the brakes.  You normally do not need to bleed brakes when simply replacing pads, and actually if you screw with the fluid level before you replace them (i.e., top-up the fluid then replace pads) you will overflow your reservoir and make a mess because a ton of fluid is stored in the always-out pistons ("always out" due to the warn pads).  When you push the pistons back in to make room for the new, thicker pads (which can be non-trivial, another reason to just buy a new caliper) all that fluid goes back into the reservoir.
This is all to say that the fluid level in your master cylinder is actually a proxy for how warn your pads are all around the car.  If it's been a long time since you've done your pads and your fluid low light comes on, you probably just need to change your pads (and NOT add more fluid) because all that fluid hasn't "leaked" but is actually stored in each "nearly maxed out" piston.  The brakes are one system where a leak will be VERY, unavoidably obvious.

Sooo, what have you discovered?

You have all missed the final two points
- the celebratory drink in place when the job is completed
- the video camera to record the 'tik tok' moment for the world to witness.