!!!!!!! Fundraiser Idea to Shower the World with Stories and Images of Permaculture Activity (BEL)

Remember the cool fundraiser thing we did a month or two ago to pick up the new server and keep permies running silky smooth?  

The idea came up to do a thing like that, but to stuff more money into the bucket for the Bootcamp Experience Log.
      (What's that?  click here: permies.com/bel)



So, a few questions:
1) Should we do this fundraiser?
2) If we do this, what kind of stuff should we say so it makes sense to people, both familiar and unfamiliar with the BEL?
3) What should we set as our target amount?
4) What are some elegant ways we might be able to set it up with a "recurring" option?
5) What other questions should I be asking?
6) What other ideas and strategies can you think of that would help this thing be a massive force for good, and also a bit of a party that folks want to come to?

Beau, Paul has said before that funding the bucket for the boots was his #1 wish.  Sooooo, yes do what you can to get this started. It is time that I send another check Paul's way for some more PIE, that I really enjoy giving away.  And the extra money can be used for the BEL.

Count me in to help.


Peace

Good morning!

If you decide to proceed, I think it would be helpful to know more about “BEL”.  What is it?  I want to know that😁 for starters.

And I think part of the success of the campaign to fund the new server is due to the fact that it was a specific project, we knew how it would affect our lives personally as well as as a community, and there was a finite cost .  😉🤣 it did have to be adjusted upward, but it looked to me like people were ready to “overfund” to some extent anyway, because we are all living in the same world where things cost more than quoted and arrive later than promised.  Over funding was an extra oomph so there would be a contingency fund.

By the way, what’s the current status on that server?

I don’t think there will be a similar response to a less specific need, amount, or project.  Speaking for myself, the more specific and well defined and finite the request, more specific and timely will be my response.  It may be I am not the only one who wants to know.

In the event I am wrong about that, well wouldn’t that be terrific?

😁

Beau M. Davidson wrote:Remember the cool fundraiser thing we did a month or two ago to pick up the new server and keep permies running silky smooth?  

The idea came up to do a thing like that, but to stuff more money into the bucket for the Bootcamp Activity Log.
      (What's that?  click here: permies.com/bel)



So, a few questions:
1) Should we do this?
2) If we do this, what kind of stuff should we say so it makes sense to people, both familiar and unfamiliar with the BEL?
3) What should we set as our target amount?
4) What other questions should I be asking?

My $0.02.  I love reading about folks trying things out and the journey they take in doing that.  BELs are one specific avenue of that.

I think this is a worthy effort, but there are some structural things that would need to happen to position it for success.  
1. BELs are a specific thing, but there is no specific forum for them to be in, each one is just a new thread.  Or if there is, I've not seen it and couldn't find it.  If not a forum, at least a BEL tag that can be searched on.
2. Build some mindshare around the name 'BEL', it's catchy but I've not seen it used outside of this thread.  (sadly yes, I'm basically talking about marketing a word - to build awareness of it.)
3. Consider working BELs into the dailyish once in a while.  Pick some minimum cadence like once a month or once every eight weeks, then add additional mentions if something particularly cool comes up.

As far as what to say around it, I would lean into the experimental angle.  'All of us are smarter than any one of us', so we want to give folks a place to go and be clever.  You can help us grease the wheels to try out more ideas faster.  This is all about increasing the velocity of experimentation.

As for target amount, it isn't self perpetuating since each BEL grant gets 10% of the BEL (if I read the docs right).  That means we should say "We want to fund X things a year at at least Y amount"...which does end up setting a yearly fundraising target, but it does that couched in the achievement, not just a dollar target. :)

I'm going to go throw money at BEL now.

Cheers,
David

p.s. (after submit editing): Since this is a perpetual effort, consider also offering a subscription model to spread out the donation.  Lots of folks can do $5/month like a Patreon backing.

If I understand the concept correctly, the ask is basically for people to pay into a fund that will support the keeping of blogs by the boots (persons who have gone to work and learn at wheaton labs). The money is paid out based on content quantity, with quality not considered (or simply assumed to be high).
Here is what I am seeing in this space (i.e. community supported internet content).
There is a LOT of content out there - homesteading blogs, permaculture vlogs, substacks, patroeons: there is more than I can consume, much less support with my wallet. Added to which, my goal is to spend less time online, not more. And I don’t think I am alone in that.
So, if you are trying to market this program, the question is how will the boot’s content be more valuable to the supporter than all the instagramers, youtubers, and bloggers who are covering similar topics. The bel concept does not have the advantage of allowing people to donate to a writer whose work they like, nor does it have the advantage of a magazine, which curates a variety of articles for quality and content. So what is the upside?

Lina Joana

You’ve used the term bel concept in your post, signaling that you are familiar with it.  Would you be willing to post a definition of some kind or a link.

I did a web search and found something about a Baharain Electronic or electric company and that is all.

Thank you

Hello Thelka, this may help you out

Beau wrote: The idea came up to do a thing like that, but to stuff more money into the bucket for the Bootcamp Experience Log.
     (What's that?  click here: permies.com/bel)

Thekla McDaniels wrote:Good morning!

If you decide to proceed, I think it would be helpful to know more about “BEL”.  What is it?  I want to know that😁 for starters.

😁

Me too… what the heck is BEL?

Reposting the link to the bel description- the formatting in the first post makes it east to miss:
https://permies.com/w/bel

Thanks to Joylynn and Fiona for directing me to the link at the beginning of Beau’s post.

I totally missed it.

1) Should we do this?
I vote yes!!

Permies and Paul’s YouTube channel are my last vestiges of social media.
Staying connected to the happenings at Wheaton Labs is important to me not only personally, because I care about and want WL to succeed, but also because it inspires me, teaches me, and motivates me to keep plugging away on my own land.

I watch Stephen’s BEL thread and look forward to getting that email every day.

Beyond that though, the BEL could serve as a motivational tool, both for those boots already on the ground and for new people who are considering being a boot.
I’m fully in support of further incentivizing the boot camp, let’s fill it up!


2) If we do this, what kind of stuff should we say so it makes sense to people, both familiar and unfamiliar with the BEL?

I’d love a highlight reel. Maybe Andrés could make a slideshow of some of the best pictures in those threads? Maybe it could go out on YT as both a Bootcamp Promo and a BEL Fundraiser? Maybe it has a fun song and the pictures change to the beat? Maybe a few clips from Paul, Stephen, et al could be intermixed kinda like the PTJ postcard; people popping in to gush about how fantastic the bootcamp is and how much better it could be with more boots?


3) What should we set as our target amount?

I was having a hard time with visualizing the math here, so I worked it out and sharing. Assuming the starting point of $15,550 (as per the first post in the “Back the BEL” thread), each 10% withdrawal for the first 12 rings is listed below:

Times BEL is Rang	Funds in BEL	Amount to be withdrawn	Dollars per Post
1	$15,550.00	$1,555.00	$15.55
2	$13,995.00	$1,399.50	$14.00
3	$12,595.50	$1,259.55	$12.60
4	$11,335.95	$1,133.60	$11.34
5	$10,202.36	$1,020.24	$10.20
6	$9,182.12	$918.21	$9.18
7	$8,263.91	$826.39	$8.26
8	$7,437.52	$743.75	$7.44
9	$6,693.77	$669.38	$6.69
10	$6,024.39	$602.44	$6.02
11	$5,421.95	$542.19	$5.42
12	$4,879.75	$487.98	$4.88

Recall that to ring the BEL a boot must post 100 times - how I arrived at the “dollars per post”


Looking at the bottom, $500 is no chump change, but simultaneously if your singular source of income was the BEL, $5 per day is … well how many spend more on coffee, tea, or snacks per day than $5.

Suppose for a second there were 3 boots, all with BEL threads going at the same time. For ease, let’s say they’re in such good sync only one rings the BEL per month.
The pot is looking kinda small after one year…
If Paul’s vision is realized and there are 20 boots with 200 in the wait list, that $15k isn’t going to cut it.

By that logic, to incentivize 19 more people to have active BEL threads and 200 to sign up for the waiting list, it will take something of that magnitude, or more.

If I were in charge of the fundraiser, a minimum would be 5k… but I’d want to shoot for 10k or more.

Would $20+ per post have called other recent long-term boots to have started BEL threads? Would those have brought more boots to the bootcamp?



4) What other questions should I be asking?

100 posts might seem a long way out for some, especially if a person is there for say 2 months… is there a way to incentivize *starting* a BEL thread? Lower the threshold and barrier to entry? Maybe, “Start a BEL thread and make 30 posts then you can ring for 1%. 100 posts for 10% thereafter”?

I like Dave’s points. I second a dedicated forum and more broadly publicizing the BEL, especially for folks who might not be as familiar. Maybe it hits the weekly-ish and monthly-ish as well… anyone way smarter than me out there who wants to figure out targeted Facebook ads?

I also echo Lina’s points - besides the permaculture awesomeness of WL and the cool factor of being a boot, what differentiates the BEL from the rest of the content on the internet, paid or otherwise. How do we highlight it’s more than a skill building exercise, more than a “shitty school” as Paul called it, more even than a transformative place…

WL and The Bootcamp are perhaps the most important engine we can feed to propel permaculture as the new paradigm and achieve World Domination.
Without a Bootcamp, the ability to deliver a radically organic, perennial permaculture example is greatly diminished.

Back the BEL, second mate
Let ‘em earn some coin!
Look into the future
You can see they’re gonna join!

With a little help
Oh the pot could really swell
And we wish the you would hurry up
And back, Back the BEL!’

I agree, some sort of subscription thing would be ideal.  not sure what's possible with our stuff configured how it is, currently.

Great lyrics!

Clay McGowen wrote:
WL and The Bootcamp are perhaps the most important engine we can feed to propel permaculture as the new paradigm and achieve World Domination.
Without a Bootcamp, the ability to deliver a radically organic, perennial permaculture example is greatly diminished.

Why though? Why are the bel threads (and supporting what the boots are doing) propelling permaculture more than the beautiful youtube channel of edibleacres NY? Or Happening films? Or….or….
The big “or” for me, and where I am putting more money lately, is my local community. I want to support the local community forest garden, start more food forests at surrounding schools, and generally use my resources to create something I can see. I love the permies forums, and have supported various bits and bobs. Putting in money to pay people to online document themselves learning various homesteading skills just feels like a less effective use of my monies compared to these other projects.
I don’t know if my feelings are representative of people who would see this and not contribute. But Sometimes hearing why people aren’t interested in something helps craft the message. For what its worth…

Lina Joana wrote:Why though? Why are the bel threads (and supporting what the boots are doing) propelling permaculture more than [other stuff]... Putting in money to pay people to online document themselves learning various homesteading skills just feels like a less effective use of my monies...

I think (hope) this points to a little bit of a disconnect that people need to see their way through in order to understand the value of their donations. I agree that most of the BEL/BRK threads have been pretty useless to me. The various boots have posted three pics or whatever because that's required to count toward the goal, but one and a half of those are random pictures of cats instead of interesting projects, and there hasn't been much useful text to go along. So the idea of paying for these threads that don't really excite me seems weird on first blush. BUT! That's not really what you're paying for. You're paying for the work they do and experiments they perform which is all prerequisite for getting info in the form of movies and books and courses and other distillations being published and spread out to us. Boots have to be there to lay the foundations and they're more likely to be if they have an avenue for an income.

Christopher Weeks wrote:

I think (hope) this points to a little bit of a disconnect that people need to see their way through in order to understand the value of their donations. I agree that most of the BEL/BRK threads have been pretty useless to me. The various boots have posted three pics or whatever because that's required to count toward the goal, but one and a half of those are random pictures of cats instead of interesting projects, and there hasn't been much useful text to go along. So the idea of paying for these threads that don't really excite me seems weird on first blush. BUT! That's not really what you're paying for. You're paying for the work they do and experiments they perform which is all prerequisite for getting info in the form of movies and books and courses and other distillations being published and spread out to us.

Lol, good summary! I’m sure some are entertained by the threads, it just isn’t what I gravitate toward.
So if you are trying to reach people who already know and like the films Wheaton labs produces, maybe the message is about supporting those experiments and content generation for future movies, rather than on the coolness of BEL threads. For folks in that category, I don’t know if this setup is more appealing than simply donating to Paul or supporting a kickstarter at a high level, but it might be.

Lina Joana wrote:
Why though? Why are the bel threads (and supporting what the boots are doing) propelling permaculture more than the beautiful youtube channel of edibleacres NY? Or Happening films? Or….or….

What a great example, I think Sean over at EdibleAcres is going amazing work.
For me, two major things stand out as to why I choose to spend my time perusing the BEL threads over watching his channel

1) his context is significantly different than mine, whereas Montana is not. Sean has different weather patterns, different desires, different finances (e.g.: making money from a nursery)…

2) the reach of Permies and the intent of Wheaton Labs is, in my opinion, broader than that of a single YouTube channel. The community aspect is paramount for global change. With millions of site views per month and a physical location practically begging for people to come out, and even to live there permanently, this community goes past the individual things we each can do to build a better world in our back yard, highlighting effective ways for unrelated people to efficiently cohabitate, creating a permanent culture.

Lest I be misunderstood, I’m a huge proponent of local. Supporting things in your location is great! Building that better world in your backyard is a vital step for humanity’s future.

I don’t have a local forest garden.
While I’m working with the city to carve out some space, it’s not the same as learning from people who are living an intense flavor of permaculture in their daily lives.

For myself, and anyone else like me, who wants a North Star, I back the BEL.

Clay McGowen wrote:

For myself, and anyone else like me, who wants a North Star, I back the BEL.

Seems like for you and anyone else who reads and gets lots of value from the boot threads, you would just need to let them know the bel exists, not talk it up, since they already love it.

It it possible to make the tiny add at the bottom of the boots threads am add for the bel? Likewise the ad in any notification emails people get for the bel threads? Seems like that is the lowest hanging fruit, if not everyone who likes those threads is aware of the bel program.

Lina Joana wrote:

Clay McGowen wrote:

For myself, and anyone else like me, who wants a North Star, I back the BEL.

Seems like for you and anyone else who reads and gets lots of value from the boot threads, you would just need to let them know the bel exists, not talk it up, since they already love it.

It it possible to make the tiny add at the bottom of the boots threads am add for the bel? Likewise the ad in any notification emails people get for the bel threads? Seems like that is the lowest hanging fruit, if not everyone who likes those threads is aware of the bel program.

Just the other day, a segment on an NPR show was about subscriptions and the costs to people who don't stay aware of what they're signed up for, or forget to cancel within a grace period. Charges recur or renew automatically if action isn't taken to cancel or opt out. It is an exploitation of human behavior, our divided attention, out of sight - out of mind.

I like the idea of a subscription such as the daily-ish, (which is opt-in/out) that could be a weekly or monthly (options?) email update about the BEL, or a specific project that I want to follow, or even some other forum on Permies for that matter... Maybe there would be a summary of the work progress, or the conversation highlights from a thread. The composing of the summary and email could maybe count towards the # of posts Boots are making? Another option could be "anyone" could compose these emails "from anywhere", and donate credit for making a post to the Boot that reviews and publishes it...as a way of participating/contributing without $ money.)

I regularly (like now, for instance) click-through on daily-ish emails to threads such as this, and am now looking at Permies once again. Either in these emails, or a pop-up once I'm looking at Permies, could be an option to "Donate to the BEL" (or whatever other thing dreamed up, or buy PIE) with some easy choices ($1, $2, $5, $??) including "maybe next time". It would connect the donation to the point of use and not be yet another auto-pay to cancel, possibly even provide a metric of perceived value for the content?