Thinking of buying a solar generator

Howdy. I'm on the coast of Maine and have a small house and don't use much electricity. I'm thinking of getting a'portable solar generator' for blackouts. I really wanted a Bison hand pump for my well, but the cost of it and installation would be on a par with a small portable solar generator. A generator could handle a lot more tasks than a hand pump. I'm just starting to gather info. Anyone out there have one they like ? My needs are : pump the water, power the laptop which my phone works through, maybe run a light. I heat with wood and use candles or flashlights now when the electric goes down. Longest it was out for was 5 days. Generally the electric goes down during winter storms, so keeping food cold is not a problem. Thanks for any info you can give me on this.

Tess Daniels wrote:Howdy. I'm on the coast of Maine and have a small house and don't use much electricity. I'm thinking of getting a'portable solar generator' for blackouts. I really wanted a Bison hand pump for my well, but the cost of it and installation would be on a par with a small portable solar generator. A generator could handle a lot more tasks than a hand pump. I'm just starting to gather info. Anyone out there have one they like ? My needs are : pump the water, power the laptop which my phone works through, maybe run a light. I heat with wood and use candles or flashlights now when the electric goes down. Longest it was out for was 5 days. Generally the electric goes down during winter storms, so keeping food cold is not a problem. Thanks for any info you can give me on this.

so, I would first want to know what you have now for a well pump. Most important is it 120 volt or 240. Most of the solar generators (batteries with an inverter no need to give them a fancy name) are 120 and so would not start a 240 pump. Starting a pump is a huge load on an inverter so you would want to make sure the inverter is strong enough to start the pump. The most common easiest solution is usually a gas generator to run the pump and at the same time charge up a small battery to power lights and devices when the generator is off. You could also upgrade your pressure tank to a larger one so the time between generator runs is longer.
cheers,  David

Tess,

I don't even think that these toy solar generators would start a 110 V pump unless they are more robust or the pump is low power.
Recently I discovered that my Bison pump is still working after 9 years. I though I was needing seal replacements (which I purchased), but it turned out that for last few years the water level was too low in my well. The pump has 20 ft pipe connected in the casing.

You could also think about solar submersible well pump, but they are not cheap either. Basically everything solar that makes sense is expensive.

David Baillie wrote:so, I would first want to know what you have now for a well pump. Most important is it 120 volt or 240. Most of the solar generators (batteries with an inverter no need to give them a fancy name) are 120 and so would not start a 240 pump. Starting a pump is a huge load on an inverter so you would want to make sure the inverter is strong enough to start the pump.

David asks the right quesions. The well pump is the wild card. These take a lot of energy. Even the little Honda gas genny I have can't run the well pump.

(And dammit he beat me to it -- my internet went down as I tried to post much the same a couple of hours ago. But it's good advice. And David was first past the post. )

I know more about microelectronics than power systems but I’ll give it a go. I googled it and it seems most well pumps are 3-phase induction motors. Apparently these are run from single phase power using what looks like a static converter with a start-capacitor and run-capacitor.

I tried googling to find a soft-start inverter but the soft-start devices seem to be sold separately. Interestingly, some inexpensive soft-start devices seem to cost $0.05-$0.10/watt. Pure sine wave inverters cost say $0.10-$0.20/watt.

One guy said he runs a 400w air conditioner on a 800w(minimum continuous rated power) inverter. I think the A/C is a split-phase induction motor, I suppose a vaguely similar machine to a well pump. Anyway all of these have a high starting surge current.

I’m wondering if using a soft-start device would reduce this surge and allow for the use of a smaller inverter, saving money and possibly putting less stress on the whole system.

Given the reliability problems of modern electronics....
I would get the hand pump. At least you can be certain to have water.
A small solar setup to power a laptop and a LED light will be much less expensive than one for a well pump.

WOW!!! I'm so grateful for all the advice received over night for my question about a solar generator. since my primary concern is for the pump to my well, I clearly have some more thinking to do. Seems like in my case the well system and my other objectives (modem/laptop/phone) need to be dealt with differently. I want to thank everyone for all the advice and taking the time to answer my question.

Douglas Alpenstock wrote:

David Baillie wrote:so, I would first want to know what you have now for a well pump. Most important is it 120 volt or 240. Most of the solar generators (batteries with an inverter no need to give them a fancy name) are 120 and so would not start a 240 pump. Starting a pump is a huge load on an inverter so you would want to make sure the inverter is strong enough to start the pump.

David asks the right quesions. The well pump is the wild card. These take a lot of energy. Even the little Honda gas genny I have can't run the well pump.

(And dammit he beat me to it -- my internet went down as I tried to post much the same a couple of hours ago. But it's good advice. And David was first past the post. )

We upgraded to Starlink so our service is now pretty seamless... I have a 4000 watt no name generator that starts our 240volt pump with no problem. The inverter would do it as well but I have not taken the time to move it up the hill to its new location yet so it's too far away. hopefully this fall...

I use a 12V or 24V diaphragm water pump, operating from a 12v or 24v battery system.
They are often used on RV's.
Mine has been working for 25 years, and pumps from a ground level tank, filled by rainfall.

Sometimes it’s cloudy after a winter storm, so solar panel output might be ~10% of peak.

I wonder about just filling up a water barrel or two to get through the 5 days. Inexpensive, reliable, and little to no electricity needed to pump. Seems like a good backup water supply to have anyway.

Have you thought about doing rainwater catchment for times when you don't have electricity?

That is the reason we have ours.

Another benefit is that we can use it to water the garden.

We are in a drought and if the well runs dry we will still have water.

The work of Brad Lancaster:

https://permies.com/t/36676/Brad-Lancaster-Waste-Transform-waste

https://permies.com/wiki/51855/Rainwater-Harvesting-Drylands-Brad-Lancaster

I've been running my well-pump solely on solar for ~6 years now.  Pretty much everyone's comments are accurate.  They are either single-phase 120VAC or single-phase 240V.  I'm running a 1 hp 240VAC Grunfos.  It draws ~2100W while running, but the startup surge is ~9200W for the first 1/2 second.  Most solar generators will in no way whatsoever be adequate for that.

Go to the pump and see if you can find some kind of plaque that documents the power requirements.  I'm guessing for ANY pump, you are not really ready to put in a solar system that will power it.  A good rule of thumb is that you need twice as many watts of panels for your single biggest load.  So, if your pump draws 1000W, you need to have 2000W of panels.

That being said, if you want to skip the pump and just have lights and a bit of TV, here's what I could suggest for you.  A low-cost 12V system will supply ~1.2kWh of power per day, which will keep the lights and a TV on.  This will give you far better performance than a solar generator.

Two 6V golf-cart batteries, wired in series for 12V
Two 250W high-voltage residential solar panels.  Wire them in series for 60VDC.  Find them on Craigslist for ~80$ each.
Budget 40A MPPT charge controller.  Make sure it is MPPT.  It converts the raw high-voltage solar to battery charging voltage.  Look at the Epever Tracer 4210AN
1000-1500W sine-wave inverter

If you want something with a bit more capacity, that can also keep your refrigerator running, go with 24V and the following components.

Four 6V golf-cart batteries, wired in series for 24V
Four 250W high-voltage residential solar panels.  Wire them in two parallel series strings of two panels at  60VDC.  Find them on Craigslist for ~80$ each.
Budget 40A MPPT charge controller.  Make sure it is MPPT.  It converts the raw high-voltage solar to battery charging voltage.  Look at the Epever Tracer 4210AN
2000-3000W sine-wave inverter

David Baillie wrote:... I have a 4000 watt no name generator that starts our 240volt pump with no problem.

I'm sure any generator that produces 220VAC will have no problem with a well pump. Unfortunately my little genny is a 110.

Mike Philips wrote: I googled it and it seems most well pumps are 3-phase induction motors.  

A residential water well pump would be single phase. A surface jet pump can be 110 or 220VAC depending on how it's wired. If it's a submersible it will be 220VAC with a start capacitor.

The big downhole well pumps used in oilfields are certainly 3-phase -- quite a few came up when I searched.

Here is a pump chart that has lots of valuable information about the starting and running power they require.  I'd guestimate that most households are likely to have either a 1/2 or a 3/4hp pump, which means they'll likely need between 1400-2000W of power to run them.  Once the OP finds out the specs, we could fine-tune that, but assuming it's the low end, consuming >1400W, then that means at least 2800W of panels minimum for a successful application that runs the pump.  NOT a small system.

This is probably well-beyond the expense and labor you would expend, but if I had the funds and time, I'd do exactly what Thomas Massie has done...

Tᴇsʟᴀ Bᴀᴛᴛᴇʀʏ-Pᴏᴡᴇʀᴇᴅ Hᴏᴜsᴇ
DIY  Wɪᴛʜ Tʜᴏᴍᴀs Mᴀssɪᴇ, Pᴀʀᴛ 1 | YᴏᴜTᴜʙᴇ
Running Time: 23:14
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpPYkqpe-Ms

Tᴇsʟᴀ Bᴀᴛᴛᴇʀʏ-Pᴏᴡᴇʀᴇᴅ Hᴏᴜsᴇ
DIY  Wɪᴛʜ Tʜᴏᴍᴀs Mᴀssɪᴇ, Pᴀʀᴛ 2 | YᴏᴜTᴜʙᴇ
Running Time 13:23
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3PM2Ndu0zg

And while not specific to your inquiry, nonetheless inspirational (if only for the fact this guy is the kind of self-made congressman who isn't systemic slime)...

Oꜰꜰ ᴛʜᴇ Gʀɪᴅ ᴡɪᴛʜ Tʜᴏᴍᴀs Mᴀssɪᴇ
Running time 35:30
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18_yXt1s2yc